1964 bonneville rebuild

[Bonneville convertable64]

22 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

yip mine looks like that Del !, i have made contact with gene Berck who built your trans, and explained what mine is doing and he straight up told me to forget it, i need special tools to do the seals and there is tricks to doing it too. he said what my local trans guy said and that was pull it and stick a turbo 400 in there, which i can as my 64 block does have the holes for the block mounting starter. i did think of justA having a go at the seal myself, but Gene is the master of these trans and told me all about his gm days working in 5 different departments along with his history with building race trans and engines.

so it looks like i am changing the trans out !! justA have to find a pontiac one !!! 

Yep, I spent many hours talking to him on the phone just for fun. I would ask around for someone to rebuild yours. Maybe someone has the tools. He can exaggerate a little about the complexity.

[Andy H]

7 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

yip mine looks like that Del !, i have made contact with gene Berck who built your trans, and explained what mine is doing and he straight up told me to forget it, i need special tools to do the seals and there is tricks to doing it too. he said what my local trans guy said and that was pull it and stick a turbo 400 in there, which i can as my 64 block does have the holes for the block mounting starter. i did think of justA having a go at the seal myself, but Gene is the master of these trans and told me all about his gm days working in 5 different departments along with his history with building race trans and engines.

so it looks like i am changing the trans out !! justA have to find a pontiac one !!! 

Sounds like a good time to install a overdrive trans maybe a TH 2004R? 

[64 kiwi boni]

2 hours ago, Andy H said:

Sounds like a good time to install a overdrive trans maybe a TH 2004R? 

Andy have you done this ? i would be keen to go to a way more modern trans but whats involved ???? t400 drags a lot of power out of your drive train, i know that from having a t400 behind my 454 in my 56 chev, while my mate with a 454 used a r700 and it was way better than the old t400

 if i use a t400 i wont need to have the swap certified= more money BUT its got to have pros that well out weight the cons.... 

frosty has mentioned using the 2004r... i have lots of questions!! speedo cable connection ?? steel rod connection for shift??

yoke??? trans mount will certainly need a bit of massaging... flex plate to a old 389 ??? 

 if any of you out there have bolted a th2004r to a 389 i would certainly appreciate your input here!! 

[Andy H]

21 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Andy have you done this ? i would be keen to go to a way more modern trans but whats involved ???? t400 drags a lot of power out of your drive train, i know that from having a t400 behind my 454 in my 56 chev, while my mate with a 454 used a r700 and it was way better than the old t400

 if i use a t400 i wont need to have the swap certified= more money BUT its got to have pros that well out weight the cons.... 

frosty has mentioned using the 2004r... i have lots of questions!! speedo cable connection ?? steel rod connection for shift??

yoke??? trans mount will certainly need a bit of massaging... flex plate to a old 389 ??? 

 if any of you out there have bolted a th2004r to a 389 i would certainly appreciate your input here!! 

I don't know all the details but as far as I know most of them had the BOP bolt pattern so should bolt right up, uses a TV cable, no rod and no vacuum, i think it uses the same yoke as a th350, there is cut to fit diy speedo cables and as far as speedo gears just figure out what you have in your current trans and match that gear ratio.

May have to adjust the length of the driveshaft and move the cross member. This is definitely something that is on my wich list, so if your trans need to be rebuilt that should be a good time to do it.

Do you have to certify a trans swap? Would they even know?😳

Sounds like s little time with MR Google is needed. And 🍻

[Andy H]

Ohh yes I did not answer your first question, i have not put a TH 200 4r in anything only th700 but have a friend that ran one for a while behind his 383 SB.

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/gm-th200-4r-transmission-conversions

Just something i found real quick, I'm sure there is more out there or other people right here that has more info.

[64 kiwi boni]

1 hour ago, Andy H said:

Sounds like s little time with MR Google is needed. And 🍻

yes i think i need to do some research..... 

[Frosty]

Quick things on a 200 4R Kiwi.

Follow-up info in 2011 from the same Hemming article author:

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/gm-th-200-4r-transmissions

1. Transmission crossmember mount is 2 inches further back than the 400/350TH - so you will have to move the cross member back and perhaps to have to drill new holes in the chassis for the cross members as a result

2. TV cable - no kickdown or vacuum cable

3. 2 inch longer tail shaft means a shorter driveshaft is needed.

4. There is a Chevy bolt pattern version and Buick-Olds-Pontiac version of the transmission case. Choose wisely.

5. Per the article above, "Usually the engine computer activates the torque converter lockup; however, an aftermarket lockup adapter can be purchased for non-computerized vehicles." so something has to trigger the lock-up torque converter.

 

[Andy H]

21 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Quick things on a 200 4R Kiwi.

Follow-up info in 2011 from the same Hemming article author:

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/gm-th-200-4r-transmissions

1. Transmission crossmember mount is 2 inches further back than the 400/350TH - so you will have to move the cross member back and perhaps to have to drill new holes in the chassis for the cross members as a result

2. TV cable - no kickdown or vacuum cable

3. 2 inch longer tail shaft means a shorter driveshaft is needed.

4. There is a Chevy bolt pattern version and Buick-Olds-Pontiac version of the transmission case. Choose wisely.

5. Per the article above, "Usually the engine computer activates the torque converter lockup; however, an aftermarket lockup adapter can be purchased for non-computerized vehicles." so something has to trigger the lock-up torque converter.

 

Tried to find the dimensions on the transmission that is currently in the car but have not found any so far, all they mention is the 350 and 400.

As far as lock up i have run a pressure switch for 4th gear in the valve body and a switch on the dash to turn it off, i would imagine that the same thing can be done with the th200, no need to buy a expensive controller or something, some kits use a vacuum switch and i just don't see the need for this based on previous experiences.

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Doesn't the starter Mount to the Bell housing Instead of the engine block on the pre 1965 model cars...???

If that is the case...Would the later (BOP) models Turbo Hydramatic 350/400 TH 200 transmissions still be... Compatible/Adaptable with the earlier 389 engines...???

Edited December 15, 2021 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[Fitzy]

Kiwi, that sounds like a LOT of trouble to go to, especially in a car that will only see occasional use. Have you asked at automatic transmission specialists in NZ? It can't be impossible for a specialist to repair the seals, surely. The world is full of quirky old skool auto trannies - I can't imagine yours to be anywhere near as bothersome as some of that obscure old Euro stuff, and they manage to get repaired.

[JUSTA6]

1 hour ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

Doesn't the starter Mount to the Bell housing Instead of the engine block on the pre 1965 model cars...???

If that is the case...Would the later (BOP) models Turbo Hydramatic 350/400 TH 200 transmissions still be... Compatible/Adaptable with the earlier 389 engines...???

Pre 64 engines had the starter on the tranney.  64-up your good to go.

[Andy H]

1 hour ago, JUSTA6 said:

Pre 64 engines had the starter on the tranney.  64-up your good to go.

Yup my 64 same thing

[64 kiwi boni]

3 hours ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

Doesn't the starter Mount to the Bell housing Instead of the engine block on the pre 1965 model cars...???

If that is the case...Would the later (BOP) models Turbo Hydramatic 350/400 TH 200 transmissions still be... Compatible/Adaptable with the earlier 389 engines...???

Good point mate !! My starter is mounted to the bell housing ..... but I note that my 389 block is also drilled for block mounts 👍👍👍👍

3 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Kiwi, that sounds like a LOT of trouble to go to, especially in a car that will only see occasional use. Have you asked at automatic transmission specialists in NZ? It can't be impossible for a specialist to repair the seals, surely. The world is full of quirky old skool auto trannies - I can't imagine yours to be anywhere near as bothersome as some of that obscure old Euro stuff, and they manage to get repaired.

Good point mate 

I will certainly do some more asking around 👍

[64 kiwi boni]

After a few drinks with the boys at the club last night,and talking about who could fix my trans... one of my smart arse mates who is a full time mechanic, claimed " it cant be too hard, your over thinking the job" 

 i have decided to buy the seal kit and have a go at fixing the leak!!

i also watched this video, and it seams pretty straight forward,,, best bit for me is at 21.54 minutes 

I justA want to make it really clear at this point... i have made this decision in the light of day NOT while on the turps with my friends, and i have never pulled a auto trans apart before!! ..... ordering the kit from ...

https://www.classictransmissionsolutions.com/jetaway-gasket-seal-kit-1956-1964-transmission-free-us-ship/

[64 kiwi boni]

wrongway, here are the pictures i could not send you via pm !!! it works on the main platform but not on private message!!... Ringo !! help!!!!! 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[64 kiwi boni]

oh i know what it is!! i bet its because i have filled up my pm so i am over my mega bite thingy!!! and i need to delete some old content!! and then i will get more dilithium cyrstals 

 Wrongway lets post your pictures on your thread and we can share what your trying to fix... bet we can sort it mate  and it may help another poncho owner in the future.👍

Edited December 17, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[Wrongway]

Yeah we can do that Kiwi. I'll see ya over there bro

[Bonneville convertable64]

9 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

After a few drinks with the boys at the club last night,and talking about who could fix my trans... one of my smart arse mates who is a full time mechanic, claimed " it cant be too hard, your over thinking the job" 

 i have decided to buy the seal kit and have a go at fixing the leak!!

i also watched this video, and it seams pretty straight forward,,, best bit for me is at 21.54 minutes 

I justA want to make it really clear at this point... i have made this decision in the light of day NOT while on the turps with my friends, and i have never pulled a auto trans apart before!! ..... ordering the kit from ...

https://www.classictransmissionsolutions.com/jetaway-gasket-seal-kit-1956-1964-transmission-free-us-ship/

That’s cool. Take a ton of pictures 

[Andy H]

10 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

After a few drinks with the boys at the club last night,and talking about who could fix my trans... one of my smart arse mates who is a full time mechanic, claimed " it cant be too hard, your over thinking the job" 

 i have decided to buy the seal kit and have a go at fixing the leak!!

i also watched this video, and it seams pretty straight forward,,, best bit for me is at 21.54 minutes 

I justA want to make it really clear at this point... i have made this decision in the light of day NOT while on the turps with my friends, and i have never pulled a auto trans apart before!! ..... ordering the kit from ...

https://www.classictransmissionsolutions.com/jetaway-gasket-seal-kit-1956-1964-transmission-free-us-ship/

Sounds like a plan,I knew a few🍻 and some goggle would do the trick, if i understand it correctly it's not like you are going to rebuild the whole trans just reseal it? Good luck keep us posted.

[Frosty]

19 minutes ago, Andy H said:

Sounds like a plan,I knew a few🍻 and some goggle would do the trick, if i understand it correctly it's not like you are going to rebuild the whole trans just reseal it? Good luck keep us posted.

Here's to ya' mate! 

[Last Indian]

17 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

After a few drinks with the boys at the club last night,and talking about who could fix my trans... one of my smart arse mates who is a full time mechanic, claimed " it cant be too hard, your over thinking the job" 

 i have decided to buy the seal kit and have a go at fixing the leak!!

i also watched this video, and it seams pretty straight forward,,, best bit for me is at 21.54 minutes 

I justA want to make it really clear at this point... i have made this decision in the light of day NOT while on the turps with my friends, and i have never pulled a auto trans apart before!! ..... ordering the kit from ...

https://www.classictransmissionsolutions.com/jetaway-gasket-seal-kit-1956-1964-transmission-free-us-ship/

Kiwi, I haven’t nor do I have the time right now to read through all that I’ve missed here, but if you are pulling the trans to re- do all the internal seals I would seriously encourage you to take everything apart. I would , presuming you can get them, replace all the friction plates, both steel and fiber. I have built numerous automatics as well as manuals and by far I would prefer to rebuild a automatic. It’s not that hard. And the special tools you need, you don’t really need. I’ve seen your ingenuity, and I’m confident you can do makeshift setups as I always did. Some C clamps, some all thread and some aluminum stock and you can make all the spring compressor you need to get things apart and back together. You’ll need some Vaseline, some tranny fluid some lacquer thinner etc… All automatics need to be as clean inside as the plate you eat off of! Debris is a automatics enemy! So taking it all the way down will give you that chance to make it that clean! If you feel unsure just take good pictures as you take it apart so you can reference them latter.

My two cents worth.

[64 kiwi boni]

2 minutes ago, Last Indian said:

Kiwi, I haven’t nor do I have the time right now to read through all that I’ve missed here, but if you are pulling the trans to re- do all the internal seals I would seriously encourage you to take everything apart. I would , presuming you can get them, replace all the friction plates, both steel and fiber. I have built numerous automatics as well as manuals and by far I would prefer to rebuild a automatic. It’s not that hard. And the special tools you need, you don’t really need. I’ve seen your ingenuity, and I’m confident you can do makeshift setups as I always did. Some C clamps, some all thread and some aluminum stock and you can make all the spring compressor you need to get things apart and back together. You’ll need some Vaseline, some tranny fluid some lacquer thinner etc… All automatics need to be as clean inside as the plate you eat off of! Debris is a automatics enemy! So taking it all the way down will give you that chance to make it that clean! If you feel unsure just take good pictures as you take it apart so you can reference them latter.

My two cents worth.

oh mate! that makes me nervous!!! 

a front seal replacement is one thing! but to go all out!!! gees i dont know!! 

i had a read of the shop manual last night and its a really intense read!! 

 the video i watched and attached makes it look simple... but i see where your coming from my friend,,,, why do half the job aye!!!

this is something i need to think about... and i will over Christmas. i would certainly do it if i had good guidance 

[Fitzy]

If I could get over there, I'd give you a hand with it - you know, hand you a fresh beer, encourage you to keep going, catch all the little springs & doodads that will fly off as you undo each nut and then when you're surrounded by a sea of oily parts and no idea of how to put them back, I'd go back to my hotel.

There MUST be a trans shop in the country that will know about those things??? Give it a crack - Last Indian is right: your ingenuity is limitless. AND we can all have a good laugh with each update of what went wrong.

[64 kiwi boni]

6 hours ago, Fitzy said:

If I could get over there, I'd give you a hand with it - you know, hand you a fresh beer, encourage you to keep going, catch all the little springs & doodads that will fly off as you undo each nut and then when you're surrounded by a sea of oily parts and no idea of how to put them back, I'd go back to my hotel.

There MUST be a trans shop in the country that will know about those things??? Give it a crack - Last Indian is right: your ingenuity is limitless. AND we can all have a good laugh with each update of what went wrong.

hmmm. love you to get over here and kick the tires on the 64 mate.... this trans issue.... hmmmm !!

 last indian has really had me thinking all day...

i didnt touch the 64 today, i have been sorting bits on the vs ss holden.

tomorrow the vs is out of the garage and i am ..... fingers crossed going to do the front oil seal on the 389... 

why i say fingers crossed is, we have my very lovely mum in law here and she is not doing to well. shes 87 and on all sorts of meds to keep her going, but i need to be there for her, when the boss says Jump.... 

as much as i love playing with my cars, i do need to remind myself that family needs to come first... in the past i could have stuffed that idea up... with being a workaholic !!

[64 kiwi boni]

Guys, i am going to have to kick last indians Arse !! ever since he commented on the trans leak, i have been thinking about what the hell i am doing!!

i am not justA fixing this 64 Bonneville up, i am keeping it !! i then have to ask myself do i really want to replace the trans with a later model...

well i have been reading all the blah blah on the inter webby thing and basically...they are not a bad trans.

not only have i decided to blame last indian for kicking my butt on this but i am going to need heeps of help.. if any of you have done/ or know some one who has rebuilt one of these trans ... please pm me!! ( iam also going to reach out to Frostys mates i have been chatting with over the 57 and ask them too )

i am going to attempt to rebuild this trans myself.

stop laffing Fitzy!!! ...... really stop laffing 

 it will get its own thread here on fp and that will be in the new year... for now i have to break the news to the boss that i NEED 300-400 notes to buy the rebuild kit.. and that is where its going to start..

guys... who has the best deal on a jetaway 315 full rebuild kit? 

i am looking at ctpowertrain.com. and fatsco.net 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni