1964 bonneville rebuild

[Andy H]

13 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Guys, i am going to have to kick last indians Arse !! ever since he commented on the trans leak, i have been thinking about what the hell i am doing!!

i am not justA fixing this 64 Bonneville up, i am keeping it !! i then have to ask myself do i really want to replace the trans with a later model...

well i have been reading all the blah blah on the inter webby thing and basically...they are not a bad trans.

not only have i decided to blame last indian for kicking my butt on this but i am going to need heeps of help.. if any of you have done/ or know some one who has rebuilt one of these trans ... please pm me!! ( iam also going to reach out to Frostys mates i have been chatting with over the 57 and ask them too )

i am going to attempt to rebuild this trans myself.

stop laffing Fitzy!!! ...... really stop laffing 

 it will get its own thread here on fp and that will be in the new year... for now i have to break the news to the boss that i NEED 300-400 notes to buy the rebuild kit.. and that is where its going to start..

guys... who has the best deal on a jetaway 315 full rebuild kit? 

i am looking at ctpowertrain.com. and fatsco.net 

 

Sounds like it's going to be a great educational experience the only trans i have rebuilt was a th350 and that was before there was any smart phones to take pictures with so that will be a important tool.

Good luck, looking forward to your story.

[Wrongway]

Hell yeah! Transmission rebuilding class with Kiwi! I cant wait bro. Don't forget, lots of pics and lots of beer mate! 

[Fitzy]

Laugh? Oh, I am going to laugh. I have been through the mill and back with my GP - a journey of dizzying highs & crashing lows. I'm sick of watching you glide through all your repairs: bring on the Jetaway saga. Just clear yourself a BIG space on your workbench, organise your tools, have rags & degreaser ready, beers in the fridge, assume the lotus position and then start tearing that baby down. My turn to sit here and eat popcorn and laugh as you lurch from disaster to disaster!

[64 kiwi boni]

thanks for the pep talk mate 2022 is going to such a fun year!!!

after sorting multiple issues with the vs holden i finally got some time to dig into the 64.

i wanted to replace the front oil seal but came across an issue really early in the piece.   

here is the seal.... simple... should be a easy job!!!

no need to remove the radiator as there is heaps of room and i have not built a shroud yet

pulled the front pully off the find a super deep grove!!

Edited December 19, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[64 kiwi boni]

now i have to set a plan to pull the timing cover off, send the pully to a machine shop and have it milled and sleeved. which wont happen in the next 5 days so its a next year job!!!

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

I think that you will do just fine...Just don't let yourself be intimidated...Before you even get started...I have done a couple of TH 350s/400s...And a Powerglide...

Watched my  dad do at least a dozen of them... Various kinds..(Dynaflows..Turboglides..Tourque Flights...ETC..) When I was a kid...Take pics for reference if needed...Main thing and very important...When you clean the parts..Air Dry everything... Don't use shop rags to wipe Any of parts down after they have been cleaned.....As any  protonacios lint of anykind on any of the parts will/can cause issues...Can't stress that enough...Cleanliness...Cleanliness...Cleanliness...

Also section 7d in your 1963 Pontiac manual is comprehensive and contains all procedures and details..Would not be a bad idea to read through it before you get started...Once you get the rebuild done.. You will be pleasantly surprised at how easy it really was... 

Edited December 19, 2021 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[64 kiwi boni]

And so i stuck every thing back together and remembered how Fitzy had done his tune on the new motor and it reminded me that i needed to change my points and set the dwell.....

so ... in with some points..

pulled the vacuum line to the dizy .hooked up the timing light...

ignition timing was out by nearly 10 degrees dwell was at 13degres and should be 28-32 on a 389  

after doing this i reset the idle and justA checked the idle mixer too..

took the girl for a spin and she is wayyyyyy happier!!!  

Edited December 19, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[64 kiwi boni]

15 minutes ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

Also section 7d in your 1963 Pontiac manual is comprehensive and contains all procedures and details..Would not be a bad idea to read through it before you get started...Once you get the rebuild done.. You will be pleasantly surprised at how easy it really was... 

two lane thank you for your encouragement!!

i have read 7d twice already !!! and its a mind f-- k to say the least !!! but like not only you have said but also my mechanic mate at the club last week, its all simple stuff ..

BUT i hear what you AND Last indian are saying about cleanliness 

While I was doing the tune up 

here was the little gift the 64 left on the floor to reminded me !!!! 

the black to the left is the front main seal leak, the one too the right is the trans fluid from the bell houseing

Edited December 19, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[Fitzy]

Your timing should be 6° BTDC so you were a little out. Yes, it's amazing that if you do what the factory sez, the car will run the way it's supposed to. As I said yesterday, mine ran like a pig until I plugged the vac line, timed it and then reconnected. Much, much happier. Is yours ported to the manifold? My workshop manual sez it's imperative that it is.

[64 kiwi boni]

Just now, Fitzy said:

Your timing should be 6° BTDC so you were a little out. Yes, it's amazing that if you do what the factory sez, the car will run the way it's supposed to. As I said yesterday, mine ran like a pig until I plugged the vac line, timed it and then reconnected. Much, much happier. Is yours ported to the manifold? My workshop manual sez it's imperative that it is.

no mate. mine does not have that manifold port, it is in the base of the carb at the rear and looks stock.

i watched my timing light and with the vacuum hooked it looks to be working correctly.

yes i have set her at 6 btdc, its the only mark on the front pully short of top dead center 

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Just as a mention...Sometimes on older high mileage engines the outer ring of the balancer can slip around the hub as the rubber wears/deteriorates between the outer ring and the hub...It is actually a very common issue...Rendering the TDC mark (on the outer ring) Completely inaccurate...If that has happened...When you line up the zero Mark on the balancer and the zero mark on the timing tab the engine will not actually be at top dead center...But a few degrees off...That is probably why you have two Mark's on the damper as someone in the past has remarked TDC..to compensate for the outer ring slipping around...Only way to really know 100% for sure...Would be to manually find TDC..(both the intake and exhaust valves fully closed and the piston at its highest point in the #1 cylinder) and look to see which mark if either one lines up to the zero mark on the timing tab...If neither mark lines up after manually setting TDC to the timing tab..You can put you own 0 mark on the damper then use that mark to accurately set the timing... Most engines like around 34 degrees of total timing...

Might be something to look at/consider....

Edited December 19, 2021 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[Andy H]

6 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

And so i stuck every thing back together and remembered how Fitzy had done his tune on the new motor and it reminded me that i needed to change my points and set the dwell.....

so ... in with some points..

pulled the vacuum line to the dizy .hooked up the timing light...

ignition timing was out by nearly 10 degrees dwell was at 13degres and should be 28-32 on a 389  

after doing this i reset the idle and justA checked the idle mixer too..

took the girl for a spin and she is wayyyyyy happier!!!  

Dwell,points what is that??? Does cars still have that?😁😆🍺. Did a lot of that waaay.back in the day.

nice timing light, i would like to have one of those, can you check total timing at higher rpm also?

my front pulley is scored also maybe not quite as bad but not sure I will be able to find anybody around here that can sleeve it without taking out a second on the house, there used to be repair sleeves you could buy but haven't found any.

 

 

 

[64 kiwi boni]

3 hours ago, Andy H said:

nice timing light, i would like to have one of those, can you check total timing at higher rpm also?

not sure how to do total advance with this timing light mate, i know how to mark the balancer to find total advance, but at this point i am more than happy that the 2 marks are the correct ones and the engine is running smooth as... and not kicking back on the stater.

Two Lane, the balancer on my 389 has a keyway and i am pretty sure the 2 marks are factory ones, also to remember my engine has only done 89000 miles, still have to address the score mark in the spigot, or i am wasting my time fitting a new front crank seal 

[Andy H]

2 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

not sure how to do total advance with this timing light mate, i know how to mark the balancer to find total advance, but at this point i am more than happy that the 2 marks are the correct ones and the engine is running smooth as... and not kicking back on the stater.

Two Lane, the balancer on my 389 has a keyway and i am pretty sure the 2 marks are factory ones, also to remember my engine has only done 89000 miles, still have to address the score mark in the spigot, or i am wasting my time fitting a new front crank seal 

Probably not very important to do total timing on a stock engine, but looks like your timing light can do it.

Rev the engine up until the timing doesn't move up any more and hold it there and then i think you can dial it back to zero on the balancer with the total timing button on the light and just read it right there.

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

The balancer only has one timing mark on it from the factory...Someone else has added the other mark (It was a common practice to use a hacksaw blade to remark it) When the outer ring slipped around the hub...that's why the second mark/ groove looks factory...89000 miles on those old engines is alot...Usually by the time they got to 100,000 miles...plus or minus 10 to 12 thousand miles...Depending on how well they were maintained...They are pretty much due for an overhaul...Unlike modern engines they were actually designed to be rebuilt/overhauled and was considered normal to do so...And alot of dealer service departments actually did overhauls in house...All the major components... starters...alternators/generators...Power brake boosters... Distributors... water pumps..Ect..Were all designed to be serviceable....During that era... They were not designed/made to last 200,000 plus... Miles and then throw them away/Replace like modern day engines/components are...

Edited December 19, 2021 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[Bonneville convertable64]

20 minutes ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

The balancer only has one timing mark on it from the factory...Someone else has added the other mark (It was a common practice to use a hacksaw blade to remark it) that's why the second mark/ groove looks factory...89000 miles on those old engines is alot...Usually by the time they got to 100,000 miles...plus or minus 10 to 12 thousand miles...Depending on how well they were maintained...They are pretty much due for an overhaul...Unlike modern engines they were actually designed to be rebuilt/overhauled and was considered normal to do so...back in the day...They were not designed/made to last 200,000 plus... Miles like modern day engines do...

All three Bonneville 389’s I have had the same two timing marks. It has 0 and the 6*. It says that in the service manual somewhere 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Bonneville convertable64

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

I guess it's time for me to eat some crow...I stand corrected....

Must be getting old and confused...And not nearly as sharp as I once was... Even 5 years ago...Getting old sucks...

Edited December 19, 2021 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[Bonneville convertable64]

24 minutes ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

I guess it's time for me to eat some crow...I stand corrected....

Must be getting old and confused...And not nearly as sharp as I once was... Even 5 years ago...Getting old sucks...

Take it easy on yourself buddy. We are all learning together 

[64 kiwi boni]

55 minutes ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

I guess it's time for me to eat some crow...I stand corrected....

Must be getting old and confused...And not nearly as sharp as I once was... Even 5 years ago...Getting old sucks...

Mate I know where your coming from ... a Chev balancer can move like you said 👍👍👍

after reading what you said I had go look at the marks again 

then I went and found the picture in the 63 shop manual 

what resetting the timing did do yesterday was make the engine way smoother so I knew it had to be close !

very good point about my 89,000 mile engine ! It is getting to that magic Hundy thousand and I will rebuild it ... but not justA yet 

I didn’t even want to rebuild the trans yet 

but with the oil pissing out, I really have no choice .... I really wanted to focus on getting the car road legal and then sort the long term stuff 😀👍👍

Edited December 19, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni
My poor spelling !! I went to school to eat my lunch and chase girls !!

[Last Indian]

20 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Guys, i am going to have to kick last indians Arse !! ever since he commented on the trans leak, i have been thinking about what the hell i am doing!!

i am not justA fixing this 64 Bonneville up, i am keeping it !! i then have to ask myself do i really want to replace the trans with a later model...

well i have been reading all the blah blah on the inter webby thing and basically...they are not a bad trans.

not only have i decided to blame last indian for kicking my butt on this but i am going to need heeps of help.. if any of you have done/ or know some one who has rebuilt one of these trans ... please pm me!! ( iam also going to reach out to Frostys mates i have been chatting with over the 57 and ask them too )

i am going to attempt to rebuild this trans myself.

stop laffing Fitzy!!! ...... really stop laffing 

 it will get its own thread here on fp and that will be in the new year... for now i have to break the news to the boss that i NEED 300-400 notes to buy the rebuild kit.. and that is where its going to start..

guys... who has the best deal on a jetaway 315 full rebuild kit? 

i am looking at ctpowertrain.com. and fatsco.net 

 

Sorry!! You need to make sure exactly what tranny you have before you buy any parts. Two Lane indicated you had a super hydromatic, that’s a good tranny. And from what I remember that should be what’s in the Bonni, but if by some chance it is a jetway than you need to rethink it as those are not!

If you end up rebuilding it I’ll be here to answer all I can. As I said I have rebuilt quite a few automatics as well as 4 & 5 speed Manuals. Autos are pretty straightforward. If you take your time, have a manual or take lots of relevant pictures you’ll be ok. A manual on the other hand takes a lot more diligence! 
kiwi you can lean on us! 
Merry Christmas!

[Bonneville convertable64]

9 minutes ago, Last Indian said:

Sorry!! You need to make sure exactly what tranny you have before you buy any parts. Two Lane indicated you had a super hydromatic, that’s a good tranny. And from what I remember that should be what’s in the Bonni, but if by some chance it is a jetway than you need to rethink it as those are not!

If you end up rebuilding it I’ll be here to answer all I can. As I said I have rebuilt quite a few automatics as well as 4 & 5 speed Manuals. Autos are pretty straightforward. If you take your time, have a manual or take lots of relevant pictures you’ll be ok. A manual on the other hand takes a lot more diligence! 
kiwi you can lean on us! 
Merry Christmas!

The super hydromatic and Jetaway are the same transmission.

[64 kiwi boni]

2 hours ago, Last Indian said:

Sorry!! You need to make sure exactly what tranny you have before you buy any parts. Two Lane indicated you had a super hydromatic, that’s a good tranny. And from what I remember that should be what’s in the Bonni, but if by some chance it is a jetway than you need to rethink it as those are not!

If you end up rebuilding it I’ll be here to answer all I can. As I said I have rebuilt quite a few automatics as well as 4 & 5 speed Manuals. Autos are pretty straightforward. If you take your time, have a manual or take lots of relevant pictures you’ll be ok. A manual on the other hand takes a lot more diligence! 
kiwi you can lean on us! 
Merry Christmas!

thank you for the supportive words Last Indian. the 1963 pontiac shop manual calls my trans a super hydromatic, the code is pbs 64  on the metal tag

the book says that roto hydramatics where never fitted to the bonnevilles 

 my research says its called a jetaway 315

if you can find any info that will help me confirm this would be great

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[64 kiwi boni]

here is What Two lane found for me

[64 kiwi boni]

two Lane, can you show me a picture of that 1964 book you have... i am going to get myself a copy of it, its a supplementary to the 63 book isnt it ? 

[Fitzy]

I was pleased to see the timing issue discussed & sorted. Yes, there are 2 marks on the balancer: TDC & 6°BTDC. When I had my timing cover off, I found TDC (with the piston) and fitted the balancer on the keyway. To my delight the left side mark lined up precisely with the timing cover pointer, so I knew I could tune with confidence in the future. Along with the new timing set, it should be spot on.

Oh, and if you or anyone else needs any advice or info on a rebuild, just ask me. I wouldn't have done much different, but I would have shopped for parts weeks in advance to avoid potential supply issues. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Fitzy