64 LeMans

[64 kiwi boni]

what are you guys using to Secure these to the inner fender?
 

i have seen guys use nuts and bolts with body washers Andy

i am not a big fan of these , am not sticking the ones on the 64 

I justA won’t drive her in the rain 

Edited September 29, 2022 by 64 kiwi boni

[Andy H]

5 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

what are you guys using to Secure these to the inner fender?
 

i have seen guys use nuts and bolts with body washers Andy

i am not a big fan of these , am not sticking the ones on the 64 

I justA won’t drive her in the rain 

Someone suggested using stainless like safety wire and bend them so they look like the stock staples, the holes are already there so I might try that. I think bolts is a no. To big and bulky. And apparently the rubber pieces i have aren't the right ones for the car either I've found out but for a Camaro, they came with the car.

[64 kiwi boni]

Hmm I have looked at those staple holes in my inner fenders… good luck trying to get wire through them .. 

You could use a dome an button fixing ? 

or …. Make a strip of ally for the perimeter and big rivets ,,,,

or biff them ! 

[Wrongway]

Hell I left mine off to kiwi 

[64 kiwi boni]

I don’t see the real need for them aye 🍻

[Andy H]

Finally got the distributor so i headed over to my buddy over the weekend and ran it on the test bench and it was right on out of the box.

Got it installed today and hopefully start up this coming weekend, not quite happy with the routing of the wires so may have to work on that later on a bit.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Andy H

[64 kiwi boni]

Andy, please explain the calibration machine you had the dissy on mate ?

[Andy H]

10 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Andy, please explain the calibration machine you had the dissy on mate ?

The reason for setting it up in the tester is to verify the advance curve or modify it if needed it's all about pinging  ( not pinging) so by slowing down the curve and making it come in later it helps, as it turned out the chart and instructions that came with the distributor was spot on so we just essentially verified this. 

[Frosty]

Kiwi - that appears to be an Allen Distributor Tester - a vintage one at that. Sun Distributor Testers are perhaps the most famous / infamous testers out there. They are basically used to validate/set-up distributors for their intended use.

Here is a video how to use one:

 

[Andy H]

2 hours ago, Frosty said:

Kiwi - that appears to be an Allen Distributor Tester - a vintage one at that. Sun Distributor Testers are perhaps the most famous / infamous testers out there. They are basically used to validate/set-up distributors for their intended use.

Here is a video how to use one:

 

This one we used has been modified to work with electronic distributors , tach and everything works you could even see the multiple spark that this distributor has as three arrows almost on top of each other.

He has made and sold over 100 modules to convert these mm machines.

[Andy H]

Got the engine started, ran it for about half an hour, ran a bit on the warm Side but ok.

Got a new fan clutch, changed the oil and fixed a small coolant leak at the thermostat housing, started it up but had this slight ticking noise so i thought maybe the rockers was hitting my early style valve covers but that was not the case turned out that two cam lobes  got damaged during break in 🤬🤬🙄🤯😬 so now what?

Talked to comp cams and the first thing he asked was what oil did you use? And apparently Valvoline VR1 that i used was not popular with them, this oil thing is like a big magic secret it doesn't matter who you ask you get a different answer.

Bought the cam from summit and they warrantied it no questions asked so now I just got to get all the gaskets and other stuff and try again.

[64 kiwi boni]

bugger Andy, i hope Last indian sees your post. he is our oil man!!

 i would be checking those 2 lifters are getting oil too !

[Andy H]

16 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

bugger Andy, i hope Last indian sees your post. he is our oil man!!

 i would be checking those 2 lifters are getting oil too !

Yes all lifters are getting oil, primed it before i started it an oil was coming out of all the rockers, cam lobes are mainly lubed by the splash from the crank/ rods.

I hope he does could use some input.

[64 kiwi boni]

Kind of odd how it was only 2 lifters !

like the metal could be at blame ?
if it was the oil you used . It’s would be every lobe aye ! 

[Andy H]

22 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Kind of odd how it was only 2 lifters !

like the metal could be at blame ?
if it was the oil you used . It’s would be every lobe aye ! 

I know,yes that's just it how do you know what the problem is? Thought i did everything right primed the oil and gas, it started almost right away had good oil pressure and kept the rpm up for 30 min.

I'm having a buddy check the valve springs to see what the pressure is ( they are regular stock) should not be to much, i emailed comp cams and got the specs what they want it to be with this cam so we'll see what they are.

I might remove the inner spring during break in of the cam the next time and maybe use break-in oil instead, according to comp cams to much detergent in the oil is not good during break in.

[64 kiwi boni]

Yes all good thoughts but why just 2 

the cam guys should be able to tell you why .

also just check. Valve spring height when in location on the valve 

[JUSTA6]

Did the lifters slide in and out of the bore easily?  Your lifters are constantly rotating.  From the pic's you have shown, those were NOT.  To dig in that far into the face and chip the edges of the lifter.  How does that even happen???  Noticed the chip in the pic with lifter still on the cam.  Did you send these pic's to Comp Cam?  Would like to hear what they have to say.  Sorry bud.

[Andy H]

2 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

Did the lifters slide in and out of the bore easily?  Your lifters are constantly rotating.  From the pic's you have shown, those were NOT.  To dig in that far into the face and chip the edges of the lifter.  How does that even happen???  Noticed the chip in the pic with lifter still on the cam.  Did you send these pic's to Comp Cam?  Would like to hear what they have to say.  Sorry bud.

Thank you.

Yes the lifters had no problem turning or going in when i installed them or even afterwards.

Taking those two out i had to take the cam out and sliding down so i didn't damage the lifter bore.

You are right about not rotating, they must have gotten damaged right away and could not turn. Looking down in the lifter bore they are nicely offset like they are supposed to be.

Haven't sent any pics but the whole cam is going back, i doubt I'll get any answers back , yes it would be interesting to hear their take on it.

Now I'm going to be emotionally scarred for life ,going to be scared shitless everytime I start a engine with a new cam. 😱🤬🤯🤐😖🤕😣

Apparently they didn't like the oil i used and i might take out the inner springs during break in,  is it stock with double springs in all Pontiac? Instead of one of those flat looking dampener springs?

Found a good article about this I'll have to get on the computer to post it later on.

7 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Yes all good thoughts but why just 2 

the cam guys should be able to tell you why .

also just check. Valve spring height when in location on the valve 

Yes that's the mystery, valv spring height should be ok, they are all pretty much the same and it's nice stock valves and heads.

Got going to have my buddy check the spring pressure.

Edited October 30, 2022 by Andy H

[Andy H]

A link to an article that i thought was pretty good.

 

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2020/10/02/camshaft-break-in-how-to-ensure-long-life/?fbclid=IwAR3fVnOtYmuQGvec6PGcVITex9o42Icla7QTXpB-URejLAKYMhD_ocfFBko

[Wrongway]

Hey Andy, what did you torque your rocker arms down to? It probably has nothing to do with anything but when I put my engine together the tech at comp told me that since I was going pretty close to stock to torque the rockers to factory specs. HE told he that Pontiacs had no valve lash and to tighten then to 20lb. He was way wrong bro. Some of the guys may remember this from my post. I started up for break in and heard a ticking sound. When I opened her up I found 2 broken lifters. I figured it was something I had done. I put her back together with new lifters and torqued back to 20lb. This time on start up I broke all but 2 of the valves the engine. Pissed I called comp to ask for their suggestions and was told that I had gotten bad info from a "new" tech. The valves should have been set at 0 lash plus 1/2 a turn. Not sure if any of this helps or not bud, but good luck and keep us posted bro.

[Andy H]

1 hour ago, Wrongway said:

Hey Andy, what did you torque your rocker arms down to? It probably has nothing to do with anything but when I put my engine together the tech at comp told me that since I was going pretty close to stock to torque the rockers to factory specs. HE told he that Pontiacs had no valve lash and to tighten then to 20lb. He was way wrong bro. Some of the guys may remember this from my post. I started up for break in and heard a ticking sound. When I opened her up I found 2 broken lifters. I figured it was something I had done. I put her back together with new lifters and torqued back to 20lb. This time on start up I broke all but 2 of the valves the engine. Pissed I called comp to ask for their suggestions and was told that I had gotten bad info from a "new" tech. The valves should have been set at 0 lash plus 1/2 a turn. Not sure if any of this helps or not bud, but good luck and keep us posted bro.

wow that suck, its typical you have to double check everything never take anything for granted.

The 20lbs must reefer to the stock none adjustable valve train i assume? but when it is adjustable 1/2" to 1 turn past zero lash is usually normal and since mine is now adjustable with poly lock nuts that is what i did.

Our resident oil expert is Last Indian i believe? would really like to hear his take on this.

[64 kiwi boni]

2 hours ago, Andy H said:

A link to an article that i thought was pretty good.

 

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2020/10/02/camshaft-break-in-how-to-ensure-long-life/?fbclid=IwAR3fVnOtYmuQGvec6PGcVITex9o42Icla7QTXpB-URejLAKYMhD_ocfFBko

very good artical mate!

From that there is 2 things, valve spring pressure and wrong oil for breakin.

[Andy H]

6 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

very good artical mate!

From that there is 2 things, valve spring pressure and wrong oil for breakin.

Exactly that was my take away from the article to so i believe depending on the outcome of my friends spring testing im going to remove the inner springs and since im using a comp cam camshaft use there break in oil. 

VR 1 is supposed to be one of the better oils but maybe not for brake in but may be ok forlater?

Last Indian is the resident oil guru? Input pleeeease.🙃

[Fitzy]

I don't know if this will help or not, but when I started my rebuilt engine it was 'clacky.' I figured that even though I had soaked all the lifters prior to their fitment they still might need time to pump up. I sat there and did the 2000rpm thing for 30 mins or so, then dumped the oil. I rechecked all rocker arm torques and they were all correct. I snugged them down an extra 5 ft lb (from memory, they should be 25 - 30?) and it still sounded clacky, but not as much. Anyway, as time passed they settled down and there's now just the lightest ticking sound - not enough to worry about. My point is that my stock lifters appeared to have needed some time to pump up fully for whatever reason. As far as oil went, I just used regular mineral oil from an auto parts supplier.

It would seem that not all aftermarket parts are reliably made - it's almost a given that you'll get some duds, especially in a pack of 16 lifters. As an example, one of the Ames supplied AC Delco spark plugs I bought as part of a kit - the insulator cracked on the spot whilst I gently handled it. Aftermarket fuel pumps are also apparently notoriously fickle when it comes to quality control. Good luck.

[Andy H]

Finally got all the parts and started to put it back together but first i decided to replace the freeze plugs in the end of the heads, had one leak right away first time I started it, don't know why i don't think about that when the heads where off since i did the other ones.

The one in the back on the driver's side was interesting to get out it took a couple of nights but i got it