So i have the little cortina at the panel beaters getting the bent hood fixed and they called me, as they  had a issue..

They masked off the pink infill and repainted the dark red, and went to remove the masking and .....oh bugger moment . all the pink came off!!!! hahaha

now they have to repaint the infill... so i got to pick a boy colour... much to the boss's dislike !!! 

i will post a pic of the new paint !!

 

Edited November 11, 20214 yr by 64 kiwi boni

What i spotted was the pink had been sprayed over the top of clear coat... most likely a acrylic, and the clear coat has lifted... good old POS  ppg/ici dulux i bet !!! 

Millions of nz and ozy cars had this clear coat back in the 90's and for the last 20 years its been pealing off !!

Precisely the reason that I will not put a clear coat paint job on anything. Have never figured out why it is that the clear coat peels but the base coat hangs in there. 

11 hours ago, Old guy44 said:

Precisely the reason that I will not put a clear coat paint job on anything. Have never figured out why it is that the clear coat peels but the base coat hangs in there. 

Paint has certainty changed Dwight... for the better too! short of going back to plain jane enamels ! 

the system i am using on the 64 is still a 2 pack system but its wayyyy more user frendly than the old 2k hardner, colour mix.

 

18 hours ago, Old guy44 said:

Precisely the reason that I will not put a clear coat paint job on anything. Have never figured out why it is that the clear coat peels but the base coat hangs in there. 

Paint systems need to be compatible with each. So mixing and matching one paint with another clear coat can be a really bad idea. GM had serious paint issues in the 90s because their etch primer negatively reacted with the then-new base coat/clear system. They were not compatible with each other long term. I'm sure the quality of base/clear has also vastly improved since those days as well to help long term blistering.

So it is best to pick a brand of color, like ppg, and use their products from primers, base/clear (or single stage enamel), reducers, hardeners, etc. These have all been engineered to work together. Is it expensive - yup, sure is  (virtually all automotive paint is BTW). Worth it - yes, especially if you never have to re-paint your car again.

Maybe it is our blazing California sunshine but everyone I know that has used a clear coat paint on their car had to redo it within 7 to 10 years. I suppose it is possible that they have perfected the system but I for one have no intentions of giving them the chance to prove it. The paint that is on my Pontiac was designed for commercial use, trucks, trailers, farm machinery etc. and is a single stage. The guy I buy it from painted his 90's vintage ford truck with it about 10 years ago and the truck looks as good today as it did the day it was painted. The truck is not garaged and is parked in front of the paint store every day. Granted it does not have the depth or shine of a clear coat but it looks good in the grocery store parking lot and will probably still look acceptable when I am no longer able to drive. After that it becomes someone elses problem

IMO, take that for what you will, but while not a professional, I have been painting cars since I was 18 and I have painted a lot of cars and learned a thing or two! 
First off what Frosty said is often quite relevant, but #1 on the list is prep work and that can be difficult to follow for a lot of people! Why? Because in the day of lacquer all you had to deal with was cohesion! Simple! than came synthol enamel, which was different, but still just cohesion! Than came the two part system, hardeners, which are a combination of adhesion and cohesion! So it became more complicated for not just prep work, but how to properly care for the paint afterwards. And yes it is much more in-depth than that, but that’s way to long of a conversation.
A primer is both cohesive and adhesive, but it must be adhesive twice! Both for the substrate of the car body as well as pigment color that will cover it. This adhesion is twofold. It must adhere to the substrate while wet, than dries. Then re-adheres to the color pigment without cohesion, (intermingling). 
Most of the time the failure of a clear coat layer over the past 20 plus years is due to one or more of several things. Contamination of the underlying substrate by some foreign material, improper surface prep, I.E. scoffing/sanding, to long or to short of set time and one of the largest causes, improper care of the paint afterwards! 
Only lacquer paint oxidizes in the manner we all related to removal of a portion of the paint to expose new vibrant color! All the rest oxidize by the removal of necessary nutrients through evaporation. These nutrients not only enhance the clarity of the clear coat to basically magnify the color coat, their being set above the base coat is for that very purpose, to magnify! A single coat system can not do that! When the clear coat losses it’s nutrients it starts, microscopically, to become more opaque. This opacity occurs at the surface initially, which is noticeable! If you have not waxed your car for 2 or 3 weeks or longer take a liquid wax like Meguiars Ultimate detailer or Turtle Wax Ice and apply it to just 2 or 3 inch area and than look at it! Now if the paint is light in color you won’t be able to see it very well, but if it’s dark; it will standout like a sore thumb. 
View the clear coat in this manner. It’s like a sponge. If you wet a sponge and set it on the floor and leave it to dry it dries from the top down! Likewise if you add a little water to the top layer it will plump up, but that won’t last long as the bottom layer, even though wet will wick that water away rapidly! As the whole clear coat layer becomes more depleted of its nutrients it will start to break its adhesion with the base coat. Once that happens no amount of replenishment can save the paint! That adhesive bond only occurs once during application!
New paints need specific nutrients and they need to be fed way more than most folks think and if the paint is outside a lot, that need increases dramatically!

Edited November 13, 20214 yr by Last Indian

I appreciate all the information, you have reinforced my decision never to use a clear coat paint. I have never had and never will have a show car. Jay Leno once said that he builds a car until it is perfect and then drives it until it isn't. I skip the middle step. I completely understand that you can not get as vibrant a paint job without the clear coat but I am at the age that constantly waxing my car is not on the to do list.  I come from a farming family and I never saw any of my relatives waxing the John Deere. Did they have brilliant paint jobs, nope but I never saw one peeling. My kind of paint. Nothing against those who want that brilliant paint job, you have my admiration and your cars look fantastic. I am happy with OK and waxing maybe once a year............. or not.

22 hours ago, Old guy44 said:

I appreciate all the information, you have reinforced my decision never to use a clear coat paint. I have never had and never will have a show car. Jay Leno once said that he builds a car until it is perfect and then drives it until it isn't. I skip the middle step. I completely understand that you can not get as vibrant a paint job without the clear coat but I am at the age that constantly waxing my car is not on the to do list.  I come from a farming family and I never saw any of my relatives waxing the John Deere. Did they have brilliant paint jobs, nope but I never saw one peeling. My kind of paint. Nothing against those who want that brilliant paint job, you have my admiration and your cars look fantastic. I am happy with OK and waxing maybe once a year............. or not.

Yup! I get that completely! I absolutely hated it when they moved away from lacquer & then phased it out completely! Never liked enamels, first, second or third generation! The urethane single stage or even the two stage are closer two lacquer than enamel, as far as blending re-coating, etc..

That said, a couple things to consider. Other than lacquer, all other paints over the last 20+ years have the same issue as I described above. Whether enamel, urethane, single stage or two stage! Their oxidation comes from nutrient loss! So traditional waxes do not work even when they appear to restore luster. So those paints really do need to have a product that restores those nutrients to them. 
Don’t misunderstand my explanation above. I’m not a big advocate of clear coat, other than for metallic paints! As it is nearly impossible to wet sand a metallic paint, buff it out and not have color fluctuations. So a clear coat will allow that, but a solid color no. I would never purposely chose a two stage system. A clear coat can definitely add to the depth perception of a paint! But nothing and I do mean nothing increases the shine or the depth of any paint surface more than surface finish, aka, flat, no hills or valleys on a microscopic level.

My “69” Z was black lacquer, no clear of any kind, but I used a gallon and a half of paint which means it was about 3 gallons thinned. Wet sanded and buffed out! But when I wet sanded it in 1975 nobody was using anything finer than 600. I used 400 than 600 than 1000 than 1500 because I knew from the type of work I did that was how you achieved a very flat surface. More often than not most people who saw the car and knew paint thought it had clear lacquer on it.

not the best picture to show a finish, but no digital in those days!

Edited November 15, 20214 yr by Last Indian

Last car I painted in lacquer was a '57 Cad Eldorado Brougham. Had the car for a little over a year and decided that red was not the color for that car. In those days I used to block sand down to bare metal with a long board leaving the original paint in between the highs and lows for filler. The lows the were still low got spot putty. Back in the late 70's as memory served me all the spot putties were lacquer based but I won't swear to it. At any rate I seem to recall that the paint was Ditzler but again wont swear to it. I do know that the paint,  primer and thinner all had the same label. Car came out great but about 8 months later the primer started checking under the paint on the left quarter panel. Never had it happen before but someone that I knew wanted the car and had been bugging me about buying it so I sold it. He took it down to metal just like I had and it did the same thing to him same spot. Damdest thing I ever saw.

This was the last car I painted in lacquer. My '73 Lemans Sport Coupe in 1979 when I was 19 years old. I spent the entire summer sanding, bonding, priming, and painting this car. I finished painting it in early September. I put 7 coats of lacquer poly blue on, followed by 5 layers of clear. Two weeks after I buffed it out, some mofo at college keyed my car (both sides, along the hood and trunk too) while in the student parking garage. Of course there were no security cameras in the student garage but there were in the faculty garage. Bastiches! So I had to re-do the car the following summer!

Here is the car in primer. Note the Cragars on it....I just literally scrapped them a few weeks ago. Breaks my heart.

My dad took this photo. I found it in amongst the many 35mm slides that he took. It is the only picture (thus far) that I have of this car. It's my first Pontiac.

Never could understand people that need to ruin something that they are apparently jealous of. I painted a Chrysler Cordova black with a blue pearl tint coat and dark blue tinting in the clear coat. When done the car highlighted blue. It was some kind of super hard paint that apparently EPA put the kybosh to because I tried to get some more of it for another project about 6 months later and was told it was no longer available. I was in a hospital parking structure and someone tried to key the trunk. It did make a mark that easily polished out. Don't know what the stuff was but it was so toxic that there were warnings all over the can about using a specific face mask and changing the filters if you smelled anything funny.

 

48 minutes ago, Old guy44 said:

Never could understand people that need to ruin something that they are apparently jealous of. I painted a Chrysler Cordova black with a blue pearl tint coat and dark blue tinting in the clear coat. When done the car highlighted blue. It was some kind of super hard paint that apparently EPA put the kybosh to because I tried to get some more of it for another project about 6 months later and was told it was no longer available. I was in a hospital parking structure and someone tried to key the trunk. It did make a mark that easily polished out. Don't know what the stuff was but it was so toxic that there were warnings all over the can about using a specific face mask and changing the filters if you smelled anything funny.

 

Sounds like made the original Imron paint! Tough Ass sh- -t!

Sounds like Old guy44 maybe is talking about Imron. Original Imron was very toxic, I remember having my ‘57 Nomad painted w it in early ‘70’s. Guy used a full suit & fresh air supplied mask w googles! It was a beautiful very tough finish. Also remember very expensive for the time. Probly cost 6 weeks pay😂! I don’t think it was that it was so hard as it was flexible & very tough. That shiny wet look finish almost impossible to mark up from scuffs & probably would withstand an key scratch from an old used key 🙃! Actually still available by name but think due to OSHA & Probly Tree Hugger Stuff the formula has changed so not sure if the same Characteristics! Good stuff though!!!

Could have been a take off on imron but as I recall imron is or was a Dupont product and I don't recall a DuPont logo on any of the  paint cans, and they certainly did not have the DuPont color scheme on the cans. In any case you are correct about OSHA. Here in the Peoples Republic of California on the Left Coast of the US we have the Environmental Protection Agency working with OSHA to make sure that any product that works be removed from the shelves. Premise being if it works there MUST be something wrong with it. 

It is probably available here but you need 87 licenses and are under the control of 20 agencies to use it. I do know that there used to be landing gear paint that was all but bullet proof but nowadays those are probably powder coated. 

I'm sure the conspiracy theorists will be screaming "I told you so!" with this one.....

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uk-inches-closer-to-eliminating-private-car-ownership/ar-AASbota?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

 

2 hours ago, Frosty said:

I'm sure the conspiracy theorists will be screaming "I told you so!" with this one.....

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uk-inches-closer-to-eliminating-private-car-ownership/ar-AASbota?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

 

What load of british crap ! good luck to that Politian's future!!

Humans will never give up there independence !!!

On 12/28/2021 at 1:47 PM, Frosty said:

I'm sure the conspiracy theorists will be screaming "I told you so!" with this one.....

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uk-inches-closer-to-eliminating-private-car-ownership/ar-AASbota?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

 

X2! Sadly it’s true! I hate to get political & normally don’t, but don’t think this is really! It’s a quantum shift from ‘Independent Free Think’ to Conditioned Forced Group Think’ Globalism aids itself utilizing “Climate Change” as the Phycological fear weapon to control the masses. They never let a disaster be it man made or natural go to waste to instill fear & say we need to take away some of ur sillier little freedoms for the greater good to fight this, ‘Pandemic, this River Flood, this Hurricane disaster, the Climate change’ & on & on to ad nauseam! They placate us with “oh it’s only temporary until” but most of those freedom losses never return w/o conditions! More registration, more regulations, more restrictions etc. etc. etc.!!! One day if Freedom Lovers don’t wake up, our freedom will be gone & all will be Controlled Lemmings 🤔😬
 Sorry, & forgot to say “Happy New Year”

Guys, remember me complaining about pot holes 18 months ago.... the wife hit one on the state highway 1 about a hour north of home in her r56 mini.

well guess what !!!🙄

yip she done it again !!! this time 2 hours from home, didn't smash the suspension or rim this time.

justA cut both front and rear passenger side run flat tires.... 

the boss calls me and says the cars seam to drive weird, and the tire looks to be flat...... can i drive home ? she says....

i say no! go to the nearest tire shop and get them to check it.....

she goes.... : its fine,the light has not come on the dash yet..... 

SO i repeat..... GO TO THE NEAREST TIRE SHOP.... 

5 minutes later.... she calls back....

Oh i found a tire shop...... they say i have wrecked both tires.... i say....

YIP !!!🙄

so quick chat with the tire shop guy, and he will hold onto the mini and order in the correct super expensive run flat tires and stick them on in the morning..

i drop tools, cancel the rest of my days work and head north to rescue the boss....

this car has factory( jcw mini) low profile tires, 40 profile.... they are justA pita !!! 

i have suggested that the next trip she takes, to drive the dodge ram!!! or... i will buy her a big as john deer tractor!!!

My wife had a talent for picking up any screw or nail within a 10 mile radius. She no longer drives, but when she did when her tires wore out we just sold them for scrap iron

2 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Guys, remember me complaining about pot holes 18 months ago.... the wife hit one on the state highway 1 about a hour north of home in her r56 mini.

well guess what !!!🙄

yip she done it again !!! this time 2 hours from home, didn't smash the suspension or rim this time.

justA cut both front and rear passenger side run flat tires.... 

the boss calls me and says the cars seam to drive weird, and the tire looks to be flat...... can i drive home ? she says....

i say no! go to the nearest tire shop and get them to check it.....

she goes.... : its fine,the light has not come on the dash yet..... 

SO i repeat..... GO TO THE NEAREST TIRE SHOP.... 

5 minutes later.... she calls back....

Oh i found a tire shop...... they say i have wrecked both tires.... i say....

YIP !!!🙄

so quick chat with the tire shop guy, and he will hold onto the mini and order in the correct super expensive run flat tires and stick them on in the morning..

i drop tools, cancel the rest of my days work and head north to rescue the boss....

this car has factory( jcw mini) low profile tires, 40 profile.... they are justA pita !!! 

i have suggested that the next trip she takes, to drive the dodge ram!!! or... i will buy her a big as john deer tractor!!!

Why or how big rims N rubber band tires became popular while being so completely useless is beyond me.  Like you said mate, if she was driving the truck with real rim/tires it wouldn't have been an issue. 

3 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

i have suggested that the next trip she takes, to drive the dodge ram!!! or... i will buy her a big as john deer tractor!!!

If you have ANY success with that mate, you let us ALL know because we'll want to know how you did it. 👍

I give 3:1 you get the sofa again. Of course, by now, you're probably use to it! 

1 hour ago, Frosty said:

If you have ANY success with that mate, you let us ALL know because we'll want to know how you did it. 👍

I give 3:1 you get the sofa again. Of course, by now, you're probably use to it! 

Oh last night was the opposite !! 

She feed me lamb chops for dinner !!! 

I think she freaked out being stuck so far from home !!! She’s a real home body 

1 hour ago, JUSTA6 said:

Why or how big rims N rubber band tires became popular while being so completely useless is beyond me.  Like you said mate, if she was driving the truck with real rim/tires it wouldn't have been an issue. 

Yes I completely agree mate !!! 

The idiots at bmw mini design a car with a wheel tire combo that will only last on roads with no pot holes !!   So where is that on this planet !!!!! Hahaha 

JustA thinking about it frosty .... I won’t let the boss drive my ram .... I have seen the mess inside her mini !! 

BIG TRACTOR IT IS !!!! 🍻🍻🍻

and I can hose it out once a year !!! Haha 

Run flat tyres have been a contentious issue ever since their introduction. Clearly, it's in the name of saving the manufacturer money - a saving of one entire rim, tyre, lug wrench, jack and whatever is required to store it all, be it a strap or a bag or something for every car that rolls off the assembly line.

You are within your rights to change them out for conventional tyres - but you'll have to include all the crap the manufacturer didn't. It'd be something I'd probably do. New Zealand (like Oz) doesn't have the dead flat smooth autobarns and autopistas that Europe enjoys - we're bordering on Third World road conditions.