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So i am a member of the new zealand hot rod association( and past executive director) and i get up dates from the low volume  vehicle association, responsible for all our modified cars.

 Here is a very interesting read and i would like your thoughts on what they are up to... we are at the bottom of our world and clearly it is an issue that is not going away.  

lvvta.pdf

Edited by 64 kiwi boni
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In my opinion it is a way of forcing new technology on the general public that they do not want or really need. All of this is a result of "global warming" which I for one do not accept. If you go bac

Well you’ll be retired! I’ll be in the process of becoming plant food! Or possibly future petrol! Think about that for a moment Fitzy! Once this whole thing implodes and we go through a cycle of resur

Frosty, You need to change bullet point 1 to Never underestimate the power of governmental stupidity. Just A6, In my lifetime I have seen government make countless decisions based upon

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Wow - the thin end of the wedge. Importantly, it won't affect our existing vehicles (yet) but I'm wondering who is going to bother to import a later model econo car? Surely, it's classic cars that are the target area for most enthusiasts, and it'll be those prospective owners who will be taxed for pursuing their interest. The only bright side is that any existing classic cars in NZ may experience a spike in value. Unfortunately, the report correctly stated that this was inevitable and that NZ (and by association, it'll eventually include Australia) has been lagging behind what the rest of the world is doing, but we're used to that.

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12 minutes ago, Old guy44 said:

The real problem is that an increasing number of politicians world wide believe that government is the answer. The world was a lot better off when the prevailing wisdom was that government is the problem. I believe it was Will Rodgers, but I might be mistaken, who stated diapers and politicians should be changed often and for the same reason.

Interesting that you say that Dwight, i believe its not the politicians, but the people behind them that we DONT vote for that are the real issue, i certainly know that on a local government level. the buggers who are the puppeteers to the politicians:unsure:

way too deep anyway. :bacon: 

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On 3/8/2021 at 2:49 AM, 64 kiwi boni said:

Interesting that you say that Dwight, i believe its not the politicians, but the people behind them that we DONT vote for that are the real issue, i certainly know that on a local government level. the buggers who are the puppeteers to the politicians:unsure:

way too deep anyway. :bacon: 

We need to figure out who's got their hand up Bidens A... N workin his mouth.

THE PINEHURST PRESS NEWS & VIEWS

Interesting Take on Electric Cars


As an engineer I love the electric vehicle technology.  However, I have been troubled for a longtime by the fact that the electrical energy to keep the batteries charged has to come from the grid and that means more power generation and a huge increase in the distribution infrastructure.                                                   Whether generated from coal, gas, oil, wind or sun, installed generation capacity is limited.  A friend sent me the following that says it very well. You should all take a look at this short article.


IF ELECTRIC CARS DO NOT USE GASOLINE, THEY WILL NOT PARTICIPATE IN PAYING A GASOLINE TAX ON EVERY GALLON THAT IS SOLD FOR AUTOMOBILES, WHICH WAS ENACTED SOME YEARS AGO TO HELP TO MAINTAIN OUR ROADS AND BRIDGES.  THEY WILL USE THE ROADS, BUT WILL NOT PAY FOR THEIR MAINTENANCE!  Now where will money come from for roads if not the gas tax?

In case you were thinking of buying hybrid or an electric car: Ever since the advent of electric cars, the REAL cost per mile of those things has never been discussed.  All you ever heard was the mpg in terms of gasoline, with nary a mention of the cost of electricity to run it. This is the first article I've ever seen and tells the story pretty much as I expected it to.

Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power things yet they're being shoved down our throats. Glad somebody finally put engineering and math to paper.

At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious.

If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla, each.  For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.

This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system!  This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS…!' and a shrug.

If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the following. Note: If you ARE a green person, read it anyway. It's enlightening.

Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine."  Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.

It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.
 
According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery.  The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned, so I looked up what I pay for electricity.

I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery.  $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery.  Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg.  $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 Mpg = $0.10 per mile.

The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the Volt costs $46,000 plus. So the Canadian Government wants loyal Canadians not to do the math, but simply pay twice as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run, and takes three times longer to drive across the country.
 

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!

 

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So to pile on to what I've been saying for awhile now about electric vehicles, this article has touched on.

1. Who is going to bear the costs associated with improving the electric grids across the country? Clearly your local power companies - but it will come back to you in the form of rate hikes or special taxes. Plus it will take time for the utility companies to expand the grid - this is NOT an overnight endeavor.

2. Many act like we will are going to flip the proverbial switch and become an all electric society seemingly over night. Great idea. I call BS. The idea of road taxes and maintain our existing infrastructure was mentioned. Those taxes will now have to be switched from gasoline to kw/kwh. Your power rates will further increase because of this.

3. The cost of shipping good across country will increase significantly, especially if it will now take longer to get across country due to extensive recharge times of exhausted battery cells. So the price of goods and services will probably increase too.

4. Interstate highway rest areas and fuel centers will give way to re-charging stations and hotels and will expand significantly to accommodate large numbers of interstate travelers stuck needing to re-charge their vehicles for 8+ hours. There will be more stranded motorists on the highways most likely.

5. Gasoline / fossil fuel is not 100% eliminated - airplane and international cargo shipping will continue to use fossil fuels for the foreseeable future. No one has yet produced an electric engine for a passenger or cargo ship that can go transatlantic yet nor is there a viable all-electric jet engine available for passenger or air freight.

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3 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery.  $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery.  Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg.  $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 Mpg = $0.10 per mile.

This is very interesting, as with nz we pay $8.31 ish for a gallon of petrol and that still equates to $0.25 per mile based on the above numbers :o

1 hour ago, Frosty said:

5. Gasoline / fossil fuel is not 100% eliminated - airplane and international cargo shipping will continue to use fossil fuels for the foreseeable future. No one has yet produced an electric engine for a passenger or cargo ship that can go transatlantic yet nor is there a viable all-electric jet engine available for passenger or air freight.

And Frosty, no way are they going to find replacements for a lot of small petrol engines, like concrete cutting saws, chain saws, portable generators etc, we dont all work next too a point outlet!

Yesterday we had a power cut that lasted from 5am till 4 pm, if we had only electric cars and needed a charge, we simply would not be able to use it for a whole day, too bad if thats your work vehicle that you need to produce your income!  

Edited by 64 kiwi boni
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21 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

This is very interesting, as with nz we pay $8.31 ish for a gallon of petrol and that still equates to $0.25 per mile based on the above numbers :o

And Frosty, no way are they going to find replacements for a lot of small petrol engines, like concrete cutting saws, chain saws, portable generators etc, we dont all work next too a point outlet!

Yesterday we had a power cut that lasted from 5am till 4 pm, if we had only electric cars and needed a charge, we simply would not be able to use it for a whole day, too bad if thats your work vehicle that you need to produce your income!  

I agree with you in spirit Kiwi. However, there are electrical/battery driven lawn mowers, snowblowers, leaf blowers, cutting saws, etc. You can argue how effective they are on difficult jobs, but they do exist. I will concede that an electrical portable generator makes no sense at this time. However, batttery backups do exist. to sustain a house for a brief period of time. I will also say they are expensive.

I think your point about a power outage crippling a wider range of things besides the home are well taken too. Great observation.

20 hours ago, Old guy44 said:

Frosty,

You need to change bullet point 1 to Never underestimate the power of governmental stupidity.

Just A6,

In my lifetime I have seen government make countless decisions based upon unfounded ideas that are lately coming from uninformed environmentalists. All of this stupidity to switch to electricity comes from the unfounded idea that we are changing the worlds climate with pollution. My early school years were i the 40's and 50's. There were days that we were not allowed on the playground because the pollution was so bad that it would make your lungs burn and so thick that you could not see all the way across the playground. Surely if pollution were responsible for climate change it would have happened then. Refrigerants are supposedly responsible for ozone depletion but anyone that has ever worked on any refrigeration system knows that refrigerants are heavier than air. So how is a substance that is heaver than air getting up to the top of the atmosphere? 

It is my considered opinion that it is all driven by dollars. Business dollars that are driving politicians to make stupid decisions and give them the power that they want. My guess is that you could not find 1 in 10 politicians that are not driven by a power trip. And unfortunately they all believe that they know what we need better than we do. They are all knowing and we are children. The reality is if anyone cares to look that private enterprise is far better at curing problems than government will ever be. If anyone wants to argue about that just look at space X. They are under contract to NASA to put things in space because they can do it cheaper and more efficiently. How many countries are capable of putting something in space and who alone is capable of retrieving a booster and putting it on the pad it took off from? 

With regard to your post on electric cars how long is it going to take the general public to realize all the drawbacks of driving electric and start buying a used gas driven car? The next big business opportunity will be to buy a wrecking yard and start rebuilding all the wrecks while parts are still available. I will be driving my '63 Pontiac and my wife will probably still be driving her Lexus hybrid.

The idea of the electric infrastructure being overloaded is already happening without electric cars. Tract house developments that were built in the 40's and 50's when A/C was not even considered are now experiencing brown outs on hot days because A/C has been added to most of the houses. So likewise when everyone is plugging in their car it obviously will overload even the newest neighborhood.

Decisions made without the slightest hint of reality. Government at its best.

Old guy 44 - I think the proper quite is "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity!" - government stupidity is just a subset of human stupidity. It's right next to "Hold ma' beer - watch this!" or "Guns are evil and must be banned" forms of stupidity.

Once again the government is trying to control consumer demand by legislating it in some fashion. Something they've been terrible and wrong at for decades.

I truly believe a politician believes he knows how to spend my money more wisely than I do (to which I say BS). He just makes sure he has as little personal financial skin in the game as possible at the same time.

Government is like meetings - where the minutes are kept and the hours are lost. The lack of common sense is deafening. No one wants to speak against the government "machine" for fear of being put down and belittled in the court of public opinion. We have the right to free speech, just no one willing to listen to the "nay sayers" because the "experts" have "spoken" and "thus it will be"!

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Frosty,

I absolutely acquis to your superior logic. Government stupidity is a subset of human stupidity Unfortunately it seems to be the biggest and most dangerous of all the subsets.

Re: electric/ co2's, back near the beginning of this discussion I stated that electric cars are not pollution free. They just move the pollution from the car to whatever is producing the electricity. If your power is being supplied 100%  by hydroelectric, wind or solar then yes your electric car is pollution free. If however you are charging your battery off an old coal fired electric generating plant you might as well be driving a Hummer. Obviously the two extremes but the fact is that whatever is generating your electricity is where the pollution is being created. Since almost none of the population is being supplied 100% by one or more of the pollution free means of generating electricity electric cars DO PRODUCE EMISSIONS. The idiot politicians in California have decreed that by 2035? no piston driven vehicles can be sold in the state. The current electric grid has to rotate blackouts every summer when A/C usage is at its peak so what happens when even 10% of the population is charging the battery in their electric on that grid. They won't let you buy anything but an electric but I have seen no effort to upgrade the system to meet the demand that they have to know is coming, and if they started today they would not have the necessary means of generating let alone transporting enough electrons to meet the projected demand. 

Lets look at that in realistic terms. California has a population of 40,000,000. For talking purposes lets say that 25% of the population has a car and a license. That is 10,000,000 people that drive. The charger on an electric car requires a 75 amp circuit which is about 3X the circuit size on a central A/C. So 3X 10.000.000 equals another 30,000,000 A/C units on a grid that is already overloaded. This is going to work how? As Last Indian so eloquently put it WE ARE SCREWED

Human stupidity at its best. legislate demands without the slightest thought of the consequences. When is the average voter going to wake up and stop electing every schmuck that promises the next hand out?

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2 hours ago, Old guy44 said:

The idiot politicians in California have decreed that by 2035? no piston driven vehicles can be sold in the state.

Dwight, good luck to California, i wish them good luck with their dream>>>>>> :picard:

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Not dream, nightmare.

There is a movement afoot to recall our moron governor. If successful we can only hope that we get someone in there that has more than 12 functioning brain cells. Not likely with all the idiot voters we have on the far left coast but we can hope.

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Interesting video about why internal combustion engine vehicles will be around longer than most people think. Some good facts here. He has some other videos that I have not watched yet. Once I get some time and I think that they add to our argument, I will post them here. 

 

 

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Wow! Now that’s an obscure reference! Of course I remember Chucky Heston’s famous line. I like it!:cheers:

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What do you do with a 25 year old decommissioned Wind Turbine..?

The only question I ask is, “was their cost recovered from what they saved”?

 

Wait until we have to dispose of the millions of toxic batteries from those future electric cars. 

Unintended consequences of a poorly thought-out idea.

 Welcome To the wind Turbine Graveyard

Here is your "clean energy!"

So much for clean power; note the size of the bulldozer burying the blades in comparison to the blades. "Welcome to the wind turbine graveyard.  It stretches a hundred meters {328 feet} from a bend in the North Platte River in Casper, Wyoming. 

California, Colorado, Kansas, and many other states are doing the same thing, the fiberglass blades will never deteriorate {not biodegradable}.

Between last September and this March, it will become the final resting place for 1,000 fiberglass turbine blades.  

These blades, which have reached the end of their 25-year working lives, come from three wind farms in the north-western US state.  Each will be cut into three, then the pieces will be stacked and buried. 

Turbines from the first great 1990s wave of wind power are reaching the end of their life expectancy today.  About two GigaWatts worth of turbines will be refitted in 2019 and 2020.  And disposing of them in an environmentally-friendly way is a growing problem. This cost taxpayers $200,000 or more per unit, or 200 million total for the 1000 blades, to have them transported and decommissioned.

image.png.8b2b29eab904914104cb39b6a720109c.pngimage.png.64869ae70601c2a71206ddd6f5ea4b25.png

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Posted (edited)

That is totally disgusting mate !!! a major f-ck up, and we have thousands of these in nz !!  

 It really worries me about these lithium batteries ! they go off like magnesium !

Edited by 64 kiwi boni
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