This will NOT make you smile.

[Frosty]

Somehow I think of the Fitzy-Kiwi get together as the Southern Hemisphere equivalent of this:

I expect one or more of these things to occur when these two hook up!

[JUSTA6]

3 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

found a replacement bonnet!!! 

https://www.steelpanels.co.uk/products/ford/cortina-mk1/engine-compartment-cortina-mk1/bonnet-full-steel-2/

 $3656.00 nz dollars plus freight plus tax 

WOW...............

[Fitzy]

WHAT??? Is there $3000 stuffed inside it? Can the old one not be repaired?

[Fitzy]

10 hours ago, Frosty said:

Somehow I think of the Fitzy-Kiwi get together as the Southern Hemisphere equivalent of this:

I expect one or more of these things to occur when these two hook up!

Now Frosty, can't a couple of responsible adults get together and enjoy a night of cerebral discussion without it devolving into a Michigan style bloodbath? I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. 

[64 kiwi boni]

2 hours ago, Fitzy said:

WHAT??? Is there $3000 stuffed inside it? Can the old one not be repaired?

I  could fix it mate 

but this ones on the tuners insurance !

Edited July 17, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[64 kiwi boni]

2 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Now Frosty, can't a couple of responsible adults get together and enjoy a night of cerebral discussion without it devolving into a Michigan style bloodbath? I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. 

Yeah frosty . What fitzy said ...

i have welded the chair to the hood and got some rope 

so we can drag race it behind the Pontiac down the road , and a big drum of diesel to make a burn out pad with 

so we won’t get bored at all 

https://m.facebook.com/4thStreetPhlebs/videos/2103900266488344/

[Old guy44]

Had a bit of a problem today.  Was out trying to scour up some odds and ends I needed. Was coming home and all of a sudden the Indian started shaking and making a noise I had never heard before. Got off the freeway and found the nearest parking place I could. Pulled over and opened the hood. The noise sounded like it was coming from under the right valve cover. Shut it off and called the auto club. Got the car in the driveway and pulled the cover. Found a shattered spring retainer. Here is the weird part, The engine is an  L83 which has beehive valve springs. The biggest part of the retainer somehow managed to get wedged between the valve spring and the valve stem and it DID NOT SWALLOW THE VALVE!!!! It bent the pushrod so the rocker arm was not moving and everything seems to have held. I plan to put air pressure into the cylinder tomorrow morning to see if it bent the valve but I do not think it did. If it did not I can fix it without pulling the heads. I will be finding the strongest retainers that are made but I think I should go down and buy a lottery ticket.

More to come.

[64 kiwi boni]

18 minutes ago, Old guy44 said:

Had a bit of a problem today.  Was out trying to scour up some odds and ends I needed. Was coming home and all of a sudden the Indian started shaking and making a noise I had never heard before. Got off the freeway and found the nearest parking place I could. Pulled over and opened the hood. The noise sounded like it was coming from under the right valve cover. Shut it off and called the auto club. Got the car in the driveway and pulled the cover. Found a shattered spring retainer. Here is the weird part, The engine is an  L83 which has beehive valve springs. The biggest part of the retainer somehow managed to get wedged between the valve spring and the valve stem and it DID NOT SWALLOW THE VALVE!!!! It bent the pushrod so the rocker arm was not moving and everything seems to have held. I plan to put air pressure into the cylinder tomorrow morning to see if it bent the valve but I do not think it did. If it did not I can fix it without pulling the heads. I will be finding the strongest retainers that are made but I think I should go down and buy a lottery ticket.

More to come.

Certainly go get that lotto ticket Dwight !!!! you where soooo lucky 

that valve will be ok👍.... maybe change ALL the retainers ??? for what they are worth ??

 maybe the titanium ones would be a good pick 

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1506.htm

Edited July 28, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[Frosty]

I'm with Kiwi on this one....go buy that lottery ticket. I think you just dodged a major repair bill dude! 

[Old guy44]

Ditto on the repair bill. If that valve had dropped being an open top aluminum block it for sure would have taken out the cylinder, piston and probably the head and I would be looking for an LT long block.

I am on my way out this morning to pull the intake manifold because you can't see the lifters through the pushrod hole. The lifters sit in a plastic tray which keeps them from rotating and I need to verify that the tray did not get broken. 

Then I am on my way  over to see the best head man probably in the So Cal area for a recommendation on retainers and keepers. I plan on replacing them all. No way in the world can I be that lucky again. I have had my fingers wrapped around a wrench for over 70 years and have never heard of anything like this.

I'll let you know how the lottery turns out 

[Old guy44]

Air pressure checked the cylinder in question and it did bend the intake valve. There was contact but not enough to damage hard parts. Got the head off and went over to talk to Rubin who has been doing heads for the better part of 25 years and asked him for advice on retainers and keepers. He said I don't know, I have never seen a retainer break on an LS or LT. Well I said you have now. The only time he has ever replaced retainers on them is to put on a lighter retainer but other than that he just reuses them. 

So I have second thoughts on the lottery ticket. I will call comp cams in the morning to see what their opinion is. All I know at this point is that it will not leave the driveway with any one of the present retainers on it.

[Old guy44]

Talked to Comp cams and found out that the cam that went in also came with a valve spring kit, my aging brain fade forgot that. I asked about an upgrade on the retainers for obvious reasons and got a really impressive song and dance. If I wanted to buy another complete spring kit we could do yada yada yada. This kit came with tool steel retainers and we have never seen one break etc. etc. etc. I will say that I love the cam grind but there will be pictures of a snow ball fight in Hell on the front page of the local newspaper before I ever use any of their valve train components again. 

I found a set of Lunati Steel retainers at Summit Racing which are on their way to me as we speak.

[64 kiwi boni]

i am having a half day at work today, have to go to a funeral of a mate who past last sunday of a heart attack, he was just 68.

very much into his cars and model trains. 

i hate funerals.

[Old guy44]

Kiwi,

My sympathies, one of the problems with aging is that these phone calls become more frequent.

[Old guy44]

Update on the Pontiac. The lunati retainers were for an 11/32 valve stem so I found some Pac retainers also chromoly that fit. Got the right head back together and started reassembly and when I pulled the left cover to replace the retainers, this was waiting for me. Needless to say my decision to replace all the retainers was warranted. I plan to send all the retainers back to Comp and see if I get a response.

[64 kiwi boni]

wow Dwight ! you where ment to find this! your so lucky it had not cause more damage too!!

[Frosty]

I'm with Kiwi on this one. Forget the lottery ticket, I think you need to go to Vegas.

I am no metallurgist, but that sure looks like metal fatigue or metal sheer to me. So could this be improperly mixed or cast metal?

[Old guy44]

It is a metallurgy issue. For reasons I cannot even begin to understand a lot of manufacturers are going to tool steel. The one that shattered gives a better view, with the exception of the center hub I did not find a piece bigger than a quarter inch square. The lesson here is if you are going to be replacing springs and retainers make damn sure that the retainers are not tool steel because regardless of what they say about how good it is, tool steel is brittle. PAC still makes springs and chromoly  retainers for almost anything.

I wonder how many people there are out there sitting on a similar hand grenade?

[64 kiwi boni]

Dwight, how would you spot tool steel parts ? 

[Frosty]

Here is a quick answer. I imagine Dwight might have a better answer.

https://www.hunker.com/12003442/the-differences-in-mild-steel-tool-steel-and-stainless-steel

 

[Old guy44]

In the case of valve spring retainers I just asked the manufacturer or looked on their website. Ruben over at Valley Head Service told me that a lot of manufacturers are going to tool steel and I cannot imagine why. So if the industry is swinging in that direction I can only say be very cautious. If for some reason you need retainers for something check the PAC website. They have a good reputation and seem to have springs and retainers for almost everything and mine are listed as chromoly.

[Frosty]

On 8/13/2021 at 8:29 PM, Old guy44 said:

In the case of valve spring retainers I just asked the manufacturer or looked on their website. Ruben over at Valley Head Service told me that a lot of manufacturers are going to tool steel and I cannot imagine why. So if the industry is swinging in that direction I can only say be very cautious. If for some reason you need retainers for something check the PAC website. They have a good reputation and seem to have springs and retainers for almost everything and mine are listed as chromoly.

Cost and/or availability of quality steel? If the pandemic has slowed imports to a crawl, then getting "inexpensive" Chinese quality steel may be partially to blame. This is a guess on my part - however, cost is often at the heart of such things.

[Old guy44]

You could be right on the issue of availability. I do know for a fact that Scat gets all of its crank cores from China and they are having a dickens of a time getting cores for their kits. Their delivery times are astronomical right now because of it.

I am not sure that cost is an issue, considering the cost of building an engine now days I do not know anyone that would not be willing to spend an extra 70 to 100 dollars for quality retainers that will last the life of the engine as opposed to something that is subject to early failure. My engine  has less than 10,000 miles on it and you have seen the results.  It cost me 400+ just for the parts to put mine back together, given a choice at the time of the original build would  I have been willing to spend slightly more for quality retainers? In a heartbeat!

[64 kiwi boni]

looks like Covid 19 has got back in New Zealand!! and in about 2 hours the government is going to most likely put us all back into lock down!! 

 i am soooo excited !!! i can work on the Pontiac !!! 

[64 kiwi boni]

yip, just got word we are now in full lock down ... country wide 

so get to go to level 4 essential service mode, everything  i get called out too i have to wear full ppe !...

on call work only...