Fitzy's GP is back!

[Frosty]

5 hours ago, Fitzy said:

I might even hook up the Frosty Memorial Tacho whilst I'm under the dash grunting & sweating. 

YYYYEEEEEESSSSSS! 😁

[Fitzy]

Okay, I am now DEFINITELY hooking up the FMT!

I woke up early this morning and was sick of laying in bed wondering how I'm even going to start what I have planned. One circuit at a time, I think. Car will be back on the road in 2050, when the last drop of gasoline has been burnt.

[Last Indian]

On 2/15/2024 at 1:56 AM, Fitzy said:

Yeah, whatever. Come on over. Once the beers come out, we'll just sit around poking fun at the car.

So today I thought I'd at least start it up because I haven't done anything since changing the leads. Took it around the block and it was faultless. Plenty of power, no carry on. I then whipped out the multimeter and checked a few things. Power to coil with ignition 'on' but engine not running is only 5V!!! It should be 12. With engine running it's 7.7V, which is about right due to resistance wire feeding the points. Battery voltage with engine off is 12.4. Engine running: 12.3. Yes, I know that's not enough. Tested fuse box with key to acc: 12.2. With switch 'on:' only 11.7.

So i'm now thinking there's an issue with the voltage coming out of the ignition switch which shits me because I've checked coil voltage in the past and it was 12V, so something has mysteriously changed. Also an obvious voltage drop between ignition 'on' and 'acc' position.

Whilst I was under the hood getting cranky, I pulled the 2 firewall plugs that feed through it into the footwell. What a mess! 60 years of crap and rust in there. The pics are the 'before' shots. If you're thinking "why doesn't he get rid of the surface rust on the booster & master cylinder," it's because the master will one day be changed to dual circuit and whilst the booster is out, I can clean it up and paint it then. Whilst they were apart, I checked for voltage going in and it was 11.46. I checked for resistance between outer terminals and inner ones - zero. Checked for resistance across all battery terminals and their various connections, the isolaters and all the earth straps and the main earth lead - all zero Ohms.

So...I THINK I'm going to run fresh decent gauge wires from the correct terminals on the back of the ignition switch. The car's original resistance wire seems to be working okay but I wonder if a fresh 12V to the coil via a ballast resistor might be the better way to go?

Of course if I had a Corolla, I could just jump in and go somewhere. 😁

Thanks to Kiwi and Gary for their help and words of inspiration. I shall sally forth and see what happens.

That reminds me: those useless Blue Streak leads are never going back on, so if someone wants them, let me know. You can have them for nothing - about what they're worth. I am NOT adjusting the reg. I'll take the car to a sparky and they can test the alternator and fiddle with the reg if they feel the need. I'm likely to make the car burst into flames if I touch either.

I forgot to mention: as car was idling I turned on headlights, then indicators then brake lights. The voltmeter swung abruptly into 10V territory each time I activated something. What's going on there?

And Kiwi suggested checking alternator output. I don't know how. There's a substantial wire coming out of the back and a smaller 2 prong connector which I assume goes to the idiot light and something else. How do I check output? 

That’s it Peter! You put your pissed off hat on & show those little electrons who there messing with! Its a lot of work & detail, but oh so worth it. Are you leaving those bulkheads & just going to go from the interior side of the car? If you are, clean those male bulkheads/terminals up with some fine soft steel wool. Then spray them with some LPS 1 & let them sit for a day or two. Then wash them down with some alcohol, not beer, but isopropyl! And let dry. The female side is a little more difficult. Get some 280 grit wet & dry carborundum paper & cut & fold it so it will go in to the female terminal with minimal effort. Then slide it in & out. This will help clear out corrosion & debris. Then once again spray with LPS1 & let sit, then the alcohol thing again. 
When you put them back together use petroleum jelly liberally on the terminals. This material is not a dielectric, but does help those type of terminals connect & it also prevents corrosion. 

 

13 hours ago, Fitzy said:

I hope you guys are happy - look what you made me do.

I was never happy with the electrics in that car. By my own admission, I rushed through it and simply plugged everything back in after I had refurbed the interior so it's my fault that it's come to this. The pics are embarrassing but let this be a warning to new players: do it once and do it right.

I saw an excellent YT clip on rewiring your car and whilst I mightn't go the whole hog, I will at the very least clean up the mess under the dash and add a bunch of relays AND a new firewall connection to negate those crappy 60 year old items.

As per the YT suggestion, I made a list of what needs power and divided it between front of firewall, cabin and anything beyond the back seat. Once you make a list, it's surprising how sparse it is. My car is without aircon, power windows & seats and I will simply bypass the heater, cigarette lighter and any other useless items to keep it as simple as possible.

I looked at regulator adjustment and there's a single spring loaded little screw in there. At the appropriate time, I will test alternator output and see what the reg is doing. This is a chance to get the fuel gauge calibrated correcly too and I can clean the faces of the speedo and instruments a lot better than I did the first time. I might even hook up the Frosty Memorial Tacho whilst I'm under the dash grunting & sweating.

Yes, I'm having a beer. Why? It's hot, sticky and the mossies & bugs have decided that my face is a good place to hover close to whilst my three arms are busy trying to get something apart that was assembled when the Ark set sail.

I genuinely appreciate everyone's input and you can be assured I am taking everything you say on board.

 

[Wrongway]

Good luck buddy, hate your having so many issues with your ol 'girl. I ended up having to buy a whole new harness and rewire my whole car bro. Wasn't to awful, rather not do it again. But like others have said, you've came to far to go back now bro.

[Fitzy]

Star Log, Saturday: I sprung out of bed this morning, smashed down a coffee & slice of toast and threw myself into the car. Removed the three gauges and cleaned up their faces with rust converter. Clock & ammeter will be purely cosmetic but fuel gauge is going to a specialist to get calibrated. Removed speedo and COMPLETELY dismantled- what a mess. The timber veneer that I replaced a coupla years ago is going to be replaced - I lacquered the first batch and they all curled up and never stuck properly, despite me clamping and forcing everything flat, so that meant removing the console as well plus I needed to get to Frosty's tach so it can be checked for proper function at the instrument place. Pics tell the story. Rest of interior is coming out so I can retrofit floor insulation - again, why didn't I do this properly the first time?

Obviously the car won't be driven for a while which will stop me whingeing about how it runs! With the electrics overhauled and the interior finished to a better standard, I can charge more when I sell it. You can laugh now.

To Gary: because there is no need to 'connect' engine bay to interior (the factory do it obviously for ease of manufacture) I plan to run complete wires through, thereby negating any possible issues completely.

On Monday, I'm buying a labeller and some clear shrinkwrap so that each wire can be clearly identified as I go AND for future reference to the next poor soul who is under the dash trying to figure out what goes where.

Again, to anyone out there facing the prospect of resurrecting some ancient dinosaur of a car, take your time and do it PROPERLY!

The next step is to figure out how much wire and what wire gauges to buy.

[JUSTA6]

Atta boy Fitzy.  LIL sparky can't beat you!!!

[Last Indian]

9 hours ago, Fitzy said:

To Gary: because there is no need to 'connect' engine bay to interior (the factory do it obviously for ease of manufacture) I plan to run complete wires through, thereby negating any possible issues completely.

That sounds like a good choice! You probably have thought of this already, but if not, wire. What ever gage you buy & that will most likely be more than one. Consider silicone coated or PVC coated wire because of it’s flexibility. They also make multi wire jacketed wire in PVC, which is flexible & would actually help you to reduce wire runs to the same area. 

[Fitzy]

Good thinking - thanks for the tip. Rather than just plunge in online and buy armfuls of wire, I'm going to get some advice from an auto electrician. Like everything else these days, the myriad choices are mind boggling. Not all automotive cables are equal - far, far from it.

I'm going to test the resistance across a metre of the original wire and it's modern equivalent before I start removing miles of wire - you never know, I might save myself some unnecessary work. Stay tuned for rivetting insights.

[B52bombardier1]

Take a look at what the people at American Auto Wiring (AAW) and Painless Wiring have to offer.  I'm running a "Classic Update" harness from AAW in my 70 El Camino and couldn't be happier.  The installation was relatively easy and is done in bite-sized chunks.  

 

Rick

[64 kiwi boni]

6 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Good thinking - thanks for the tip. Rather than just plunge in online and buy armfuls of wire, I'm going to get some advice from an auto electrician. Like everything else these days, the myriad choices are mind boggling. Not all automotive cables are equal - far, far from it.

I'm going to test the resistance across a metre of the original wire and it's modern equivalent before I start removing miles of wire - you never know, I might save myself some unnecessary work. Stay tuned for rivetting insights.

Mate !! evaluate before you go pulling all your factory wiring out !!!

matter of fact .. show us what you hate 

and what you recon is good to use … 

Nother Words … do nothing untill you can sort out what’s faulty …

I can’t remember .. did you replace your ignition switch ?????

[Fitzy]

4 hours ago, B52bombardier1 said:

Take a look at what the people at American Auto Wiring (AAW) and Painless Wiring have to offer.  I'm running a "Classic Update" harness from AAW in my 70 El Camino and couldn't be happier.  The installation was relatively easy and is done in bite-sized chunks.  

 

Rick

Yeah, thanks Rick. I'm looking to make it a custom job so as to hide all the engine bay wiring and avoid unnecessary junctions as the wires pass through the car front to back. Also, it's a pretty bare bones vehicle so a generic factory harness copy will likely include plenty of extra wires that I won't need. I also intend making the entire job as neat as possible - something factory harnesses never do as it's all about keeping costs down, which is of course fair enough. I appreciate the suggestion and can I say I always loved El Caminos - they were what should have been available to Australians from the get go instead of the bland 6 cylinder workhorses we were forced to buy.

[64 kiwi boni]

From what you’re telling . I think you may have a simple dirty contact in your ignition. 
but !!!!!

Sort the out out of your alternator first ! 

Fark 

 recon 

2 boxes of beer 

some nice steak on the bbg 

and we could sort this easy peasy 

[Fitzy]

3 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Mate !! evaluate before you go pulling all your factory wiring out !!!

matter of fact .. show us what you hate 

and what you recon is good to use … 

Nother Words … do nothing untill you can sort out what’s faulty …

I can’t remember .. did you replace your ignition switch ?????

Don't you worry- I haven't touched a thing since removing the dash. It will be a long carefully thought out process. I thought I might start with the handful of wires that feed the back of the car - will test for resistance and will disassemble and test all connections before doing anything drastic. I removed the ignition switch two days ago and it looks to be fine - no corrosion, no gunk and has always worked. I believe it to be the original factory item.

3 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

From what you’re telling . I think you may have a simple dirty contact in your ignition. 
but !!!!!

Sort the out out of your alternator first ! 

Fark 

 recon 

2 boxes of beer 

some nice steak on the bbg 

and we could sort this easy peasy 

Okay - I need to reiterate that I was never happy with the state of the wiring. This has little to do with the charging issue- it's to ensure reliability of all electrics. I just thought if I'm going to keep doing things half arsed, I'm going to continue driving something half arsed. The alternator & reg will be tested in due course.

Sure, you can come over. I work 7 on/7 off so by the time I return from work, you'll have it fixed?

2 boxes of beer??? What are we gonna drink after the first day?

[64 kiwi boni]

Two boxes was dinner !!!!😜

I know you .. you will nut  this out 

one way or  another 

Edited February 18 by 64 kiwi boni

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Boxes of beer...?? That's an Interesting concept... I thought only the Best of Best top shelf premium Wine came in a box....

Edited February 18 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[Fitzy]

He meant 'cartons.' Kiwis struggle with English. I'm so proud to say that the 'box' of wine aka 'cask' was an Australian invention. How patriotic I feel to know that we drink wine out of boxes, although for the more discerning consumer we also have bottles although no longer with corks - takes too long to open! We wanna open up wine like you do a Pepsi.

Hey, at least we didn't invent the drive thru hamburger concept - you guys can take the credit for that. Never before in history have humans been able to not expend one single calorie in order to ingest many thousands only minutes later, and then not burn them off. Instant burgers and boxes of wine - what an age we live in.

Pontiacs? What Pontiacs?

[JUSTA6]

Really?   Not one drive through Vegemite shop???

[64 kiwi boni]

57 minutes ago, Fitzy said:

 

He meant 'cartons.' Kiwis struggle with English

 

Nope , it’s called a box of beer this side of the Tasman  or you can buy a crate of big bottles. 

we use cartons for eggs 

Edited February 18 by 64 kiwi boni

[B52bombardier1]

Back in the 80's when I spent a lot of time at the RAAF Darwin base, it wasn't "boxes" of beer it was "slabs of beer".  Melbourne Bitters or Victoria Bitters for me - two slabs carried back to Guam on mil air.  Either of those was fabulous for washing down a plate of buffalo with Barramundi.  And what us Yanks call a "koozy" to keep a cold can of beer cold was more simply a "Coldy Holder" around Darwin.

 

Rick

 

 

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

I remember those days in the early 80s...Drank 100s of gallons of "Bilge Water" (San miguel) beer along with a local Concoction of spirits called Mojo..While Eating Lumpia....Balut's and all kinds of other local foul shit that I'm not really sure off...That my 3 Filipina girlfriends fed me...While Home ported for Six Monthes at (Olongapo City) Subic Bay in the P.I. Was18 yrs old and had a blast...

 

 

Edited February 19 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[Fitzy]

Plenty of beer related comments there: for JustA, no there's no such thing as a Vegemite drive thru, Silly.

For Kiwi: a box of beer? Really? A crate of bottles? Here, if it's cans, it's a slab. Stubbies (or longnecks) it's a carton. 

For Rick: VB (Vomit Bottle) is the default bogan choice. I used to get the most dreadful hangovers from that shit, but it was defo the most flavoursome beer around - bit like a liquid Marlboro. I still like Melbourne Bitter but I make my own beer so those days of exorbitant prices and hangovers are mostly over. For the record, a cooler is a stubby holder here in Queensland. I feel naked if I'm imbibing and don't have one, another reason to keep a few handy.

And to TwoLane: yeah, I've been to PI before and I quite liked San Miguel...plus the endless little cuties who were serving it to me...and the beer. For a true assault on your taste buds, try SP Lager. It stands for South Pacific but the more common term is Swamp Piss! I saw things in Angeles City that I can never unsee. Good times.

Edited February 19 by Fitzy
Typo

[Fitzy]

Come on you guys, it's not all about beer and Asian cuties serving up inedible animal based snacks - there are Pontiacs at stake.

Today was a supreme run around getting lots of things organised. Procured a Dymo labeller and some clear shrinkwrap to clearly identify my new wires. Took the Frosty tach & my fuel gauge to a place called Cairns Instruments. He looked at the ancient items that I deposited on his bench as if he'd never seen similar items before. This was when the alarm bells started ringing. He wouldn't delve into the innards of the fuel gauge and agreed to look at the tach to make sure it worked. I then took my dashpad to the best upholsterer in Cairns who refused to do what I wanted to it for fear of the adhesive not holding afterwards. I am really fed up with this friggin backwater of a two bit town. It's no place for a classic car, unless you send every damn component 2000 miles south where you might find a professional. So now once again I'll need to do every damn thing myself. Whatever.

Still need to research what sort of wire I'm going to use. Wasn't game to talk to any more so called professionals so will research what I can myself.

[64 kiwi boni]

20 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Come on you guys, it's not all about beer and Asian cuties serving up inedible animal based snacks - there are Pontiacs at stake.

stink ! 

 

20 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Still need to research what sort of wire I'm going to use. Wasn't game to talk to any more so called professionals so will research what I can myself.

My advise mate, clean up the fire wall plug, do some resistance tests to ensure each circut is sweat as and move on.

The wire in your car is old, but , unless you feel by assement that is shot... which i bet it isnt. justA replace what you feel is poor.

i have used a rewire kit and they are great! but that was on the mk1 with different engine, daykota dash gear, after market ecu and lots of custom stuff. 

Your car like mine and wrongways are stock as , i wouldnt be rippin too much out if you dont have to ..... oh oh... kiss !!

and with wiring... if it consumes you ..... walk away 

have  beer

think about it 

and hit it another day ... this is our hobby remember !

Edited February 20 by 64 kiwi boni

[Fitzy]

Yep - that's the plan. Better to carefully take resistance readings than pull wires out. At work right now, so researching guage sizes & relays when I can.

Apparently, one relay for both low beams & one for the highs. Horn came with it's own relay and I was going to include one for starter, wipers & blower motor. Can you think of any more (or less?) Car has no other big power accessories.

12ga wire seems to be the default with 16 or 18 for the high amp stuff. Opinions?

[64 kiwi boni]

I wouldn’t bother for your starter mate 

it has a bloody great big relay on top of it. The current draw on the trigger wire is nothing compared to head lights and blower motor