Fitzy's GP is back!

[Fitzy]

3 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

Have no idea where my post went wishing you luck on your surgery.  Pull your coil wire and sit the wire on top of the coil hole.  great anti theft.  Another good one is push your E brake down, mark a spot for a hole, drill and drop even a small key padlock so they can't release the brake. 

Thank you JustA: surgery went fine and those are great ideas re anti theft. I shall certainly do one and will look into the other once I can contort myself again. Last Indian (I think) offered a helpful suggestion a long time ago: route the negative coil wire through the firewall to a hidden switch and then back to the distributor. Even if they hotwire the coil, the car won't start whilst the switch has interrupted the circuit. 

I THINK I read something years ago about how rife carjacking was in Johannesburg. Now this is only anecdotal but I think I recall someone managed to electrify the exterior of their BMW with lotsa volts. Anyone who attempted to enter the car whilst you were stopped at a red light or something either got a jolt or got fried. I like the sound of that - great entertainment whilst you're tooling about late at night.

While I'm here, I have another technical question: I keep reading about people 'removing' the Pontiac intake coolant crossover. What's that all about?

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

On 10/7/2023 at 2:15 AM, 64 kiwi boni said:

Mate are you watching Bathurst tomorrow ?

I am currently watching the top ten shootout 

Are the Bathhurst cars stock body with the factory based components....Engines...Brakes...chassis..etc...That anyone could buy through a dealership...If they were so inclined to do so...??

Or are they purpose built Spec racecars with no real relation to the street cars other than the basic shape...like NASCAR Cup cars...??

Are there different classes/Divisions of cars..??

Thanks TLBT.. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Fitzy... 

Some seem to think that removing the Intake cross over...Will give them a power gain ... By Isolating/Eliminating any  heat soak issues...Caused by the hot coolant flowing through the cross over...Theoretically... Allowing the gas in the Carburetor/carburetors fuel bowls... To maintain a cooler temperature...

I have never done it (removed the crossover)...I personally think that any perceived gain would be negligible at most...and Not Worth the Time...Money...effort/hassle....And realistically would probably cause other problems/issues...Especially on street driven cars...

A phenolic spacer between the carburetor and the intake manifold is a far better way of dealing with heat soak...

Just my two cents...

Edited October 8, 2023 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[Fitzy]

Thanks again TwoLane. I ended up googling it and saw that racers often change intakes depending on what their next race is. If I ever got to that point in my life, I'd be looking for a proper hobby! Like knitting scarves or basket weaving. Really? Changing intakes? Weirdoes.

I already have a phenolic spacer and am in total agreeance with you. Engineers don't just add things to engines to keep themselves busy - there's always a reason.

Still waiting for lifters to arrive - by camel, apparently...via Saturn.

Re Bathurst racecars. Historically, Bathurst was one of many venues where cars you could buy were raced. In fact, many racers would pick up the car from the dealer, drive it to Bathurst from Sydney or Melbourne,  race it and then drive it home! The old adage was "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday." Pop some decals on it, fasten your (factory) seatbelt, chuck on a helmet and drive the wheels off it. The rules have changed over the decades. The race used to comprise several classes of cars but the bogan (redneck) gorillas at the track were either Ford or Holden, and so the rules were changed so that only those 2 brands competed. With the demise of Australian car manufacture, it's now Camaros & Mustangs. Now, I haven't researched this info so if it's wrong, please feel free to correct me, but the last time I checked they used a 'control' 5 litre engine, control tyres and I think they run on E85? They are also proper racecars these days with all the mods you'd expect. Obviously, you CAN buy either car from a dealer but with their respective different engines. The race is now effectively a tool to keep the bogans happy in the faint hope that they might rush off to the dealer and buy themselves a new car. 

[Fitzy]

I decided to man up today and started prep for intake removal, albeit gingerly. I can't afford to tear my new wound (internal stitches - if they get infected it's gonna be dramatic.)

I took some pics. The good news is that all rocker studs look straight and are dead level. Tell me what you think: have a look at the valve stem tops. I don't know if those scratches & wear marks are normal. I would have thought that if rocker clearance was correct, zero lash means no tapping or hammering on the stem tops. The damaged spring retainer is from the rocker that was pushed sideways. Also, I have a lot of spongey lifters - although engine hasn't run for some time, I can push down on several pushrods and feel lots of movement. I inspected all rockers and they look pretty good if they're the original 60 year old ones. Doesn't matter because new ones are going in. Once lifters turn up I can do the install - 7 days at work first.

I need to remember to carefully check all pushrods too. The minimal outlay for new better quality ones might be the go, regardless. Any suggestions?

[Fitzy]

A mixed bag of stuff here:

First off, I YT'd setting pushrod length and sat through a very informative video talking about valvetrain geometry, the way rocker tips contact the valve stems. Really interesting - I had no idea. You need to adjust rocker height on the stud in order to optimise contact with the stem as the rocker moves through it's arc. You're all probably nodding your heads smug in the knowledge you already knew that.

Want to google some fun? Look up RC V8. Yep - miniature perfectly made DOHC tiny V8s - even with a functioning blower. A bit bulky for a RC car, but fascinating all the same.

Last one. I saw an ad for crate motors in a mag. Ever heard of an electric crate motor? They now exist. I know how passionate you all are about EVs - now you can ditch that smelly old V8 and bolt in an electric motor. Handy for those tree hugging outings. AND no rocker arm geometry to worry about!

[Fitzy]

This is the pushrod setting clip:

https://youtu.be/z7aasJTJroQ?feature=shared

 

[Fitzy]

Nice new Johnson Hylift lifters were here when I got home AND I managed to score a secondhand unused Edelbrock Performer Pontiac intake manifold for less than half the price of a retail one, which is on it's way. Just need to remove everything, inspect the cam lobes & pushrods and then whack everything back in. Then it's off to get the dual master cylinder fitted.

It's only money, right?

Oh, and some goodies are coming from Ames. My money sent to the US will help pay for those 2 aircraft carriers in the Middle East! Man - that's gonna get ugly.

[Fitzy]

All the crap from Ames turned up today (that was QUICK. Are you listening, Australia Post???) Just waiting for the new blingy intake and then I'm good to delve in and pull stuff apart. I'm gonna take my time and repaint the rocker covers, paint the water pump and tidy things up in there. I might even clear coat the new intake so I can just wipe it clean when it needs it. Will also attend to that eensy weensy coolant leak at the crossover. I used a new seal when I rebuilt everything but it still leaked. I shall break out the RTV and ensure no leaks.

I recall that my heads were skimmed when they were rebuilt. I'll have to ensure the new intake sits right and that the ports align - might have to get it skimmed too. It's only money.

[JUSTA6]

Horsepower is HIGHLY overrated......

[Fitzy]

That horse should take up fencing as a sport.

Anyway- here's my response to your humorous pic:

That's not me by the way. 

[Fitzy]

FINALLY, they sent me home! I am home for almost all of November, so no excuse to not get the GP back on the road.

Brand new 19 year old Edelbrock inlet manifold (NOS)  was delivered whilst I was at work. Today I unpacked it - still in it's original box! I read through all the included literature from Edelbrock and it was a glimpse into the past - no website addresses in sight. They also included a leaflet spruiking their (then) new AVS carby. We all know the AVS2 superseded that one ages ago. So today I drained the coolant, removed the water pump and prised the ancient cast iron Pontiac manifold off the engine. The Edelbrock is aluminium and feels like it weighs half of the old monster. I have removed all the bits & pieces and will clean them up and repaint as necessary. I removed the valley pan and there were my lifters.

But...upon inspection I see the lifters are not aligned with the cam lobes. I had an inkling that they are supposed to be slightly offset to promote lifter turning, but mine look to be excessive. I got on the Net and looked around, and all of a sudden mine are typical of other posted pics. Have a look at mine and see what you think. I sort of recall buttoning up the camshaft and peering into the valley and noticing misalignment but I can't remember anything after that! Perhaps the old brain blocked it out and told me everything was Archie. I remember checking & double checking the thrust plate installation and I'm sure I got it right. I'll look again with fresh eyes tomorrow and will determine if I can live with it. If so, it SHOULD be a simple reinstallation of all the crap I just took apart. Can't wait to hear the exhaust rumble again - it really does sound the goods...when it runs.

One extra note - goddam lifters are all over the place. Some are firm but most are squishy.  I reckon I got a particularly bad batch from Melling.

[64 kiwi boni]

it does look quiet a bit offset mate ! but the bearings look centered from what i can see 

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

WTF...??....What is the Brand/Part number and Grind of the camshaft...?? The numbers should be on the front cam bearing journal and visible with the cam (top) timing gear removed...

Edited November 1, 2023 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[Andy H]

Found this picture from when I did mine, looks pretty close to your's 

[64 kiwi boni]

Yes yours looks the same Andy 

[Fitzy]

The cam is a Melling 068. Thankfully, Andy's & mine look to have similar variance. As I said, all the pics on the net were also similar. TwoLane sounds astonished! It just doesn't look right, but I recall fitting the cam and checking that the bearings were indeed aligned. With the cam bearings aligned and the required clearance at the rear block plug, there's no real adjustment. Once the thrust plate was in, the cam's endplay was just a few thou as it should be. I installed the timing chain and everything looked correct - including exact vertical alignment between the gears. That alone told me the cam was indeed installed correctly. You need to remember that the distributor gear has to mesh with the cam too, and it looks fine and works as it should.

I suppose when you think about it, if the lifters were centred on the lobes, no amount of convex surfacing is going to make the lifters rotate. You need to have them offset to ensure rotation. What do you think?

I also think that the second pic amplifies the offset. From that angle, they look waaaay off centre - I feel more comfortable looking at the top pic!

[Wrongway]

Here's mine with comp cam and lifter set from when I was putting it together. Offset also.

[Fitzy]

Thanks Wrongway - that's reassuring. Looks like we stumbled onto a little known piece of engine building tech. You have no idea how relieved I am to see yours & Andy's pics. You always imagine the cam lobes directly under the lifters, but as I said before, no lifter rotation will occur unless there is some offset.

My post yesterday inexplicably disappeared, but in short it was how I got all the old gaskets off and am now repainting various removed engine bits that I didn't do properly before. Will post something later.

[Fitzy]

Is there any greater drudgery than scaping off old gaskets? Especially when they have only been on a short while and I did a damn fine job of ensuring there'd be no oil leaks. Anyway, I got all the old gasket and sealer off and ran a rag dipped in thinners over the surface in preparation for the new gaskets. Painted the sheet metal bits & the water pump I pulled off the engine, so they will sit in the tropical sun for a few days to allow the engine enamel to cure. Engine might not go, but it's at least gonna look nice.

Will soak new lifters in oil for most of tomorrow, I'll chuck a little assembly lube on each cam lobe (will change oil shortly after test drive anyway) and will fit the new roller tip rockers. I'll attach new gaskets to various components (incl. intake) and will check that ports match up. Might have to shorten the water pump crossover bolt (Edelbrock's instructions) before final fit so will have a look at that too.

[64 kiwi boni]

Love that your perfecting this assembly job mate 

next trip over you can rebuild my 389 

I can justA feed you up on steak and beers 

[Fitzy]

You know what - I'd be there in a flash. I reckon Taupo was my fave on the whole trip and I would love to immerse myself there for 6 months or so. Betcha scared now, aintcha?

Just because I rebuilt ONE 389 doesn't make me any sort of expert but haven't I learnt a lot over the past few years. I would be honoured to be tasked with your rebuild. For the record, I love Steinlager. Just sayin'...

[Frosty]

Fitzy - what is the local car show season look like in Queensland? Lots of car shows and cruises or do you have to travel a fair bit to get to anything?

[64 kiwi boni]

10 hours ago, Fitzy said:

You know what - I'd be there in a flash. I reckon Taupo was my fave on the whole trip and I would love to immerse myself there for 6 months or so. Betcha scared now, aintcha?

Just because I rebuilt ONE 389 doesn't make me any sort of expert but haven't I learnt a lot over the past few years. I would be honoured to be tasked with your rebuild. For the record, I love Steinlager. Just sayin'...

Nice mate , I will fill the fridge 

we justA have to find something to occupy  the bosses 

[Fitzy]

10 hours ago, Frosty said:

Fitzy - what is the local car show season look like in Queensland? Lots of car shows and cruises or do you have to travel a fair bit to get to anything?

Hi Frosty, car shows are a bit sparse up my way. There are enough local clubs and events to keep peeps happy, but due to the geography your cruising choices are limited, and travelling anywhere significant involves some distance. Because we are essentially on the edge of major human habitation, 4WDs are the preferred vehicle - I think it'd be fair to say that 50% of all cars up my way are proper duty 4WD.

I have a choice of local clubs to join and every second person you speak to seems to have something tucked away in the shed, now that old cars are valuable, but I'm not really that sociable and the thought of joining a convoy of cars to some local destination fills me with dread more than anything. Showing the GP at the Atherton Car Show was worth doing though.

4 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Nice mate , I will fill the fridge 

we justA have to find something to occupy  the bosses 

Ha! That'll be easy - mine will be pushing me out the door to make sure I don't miss my flight!