1964 bonneville rebuild

[64 kiwi boni]

Hi Del, the story with the 64 is, i bought it off a importer who imports boats for a living, he found this 64 on a so-cal auction site and she was a insurance company job, he bought it site unseen and shipped it out here and listed it on trademe ( like ebay) and i spotted it... and here we are👍

my engine and trans are matching numbers to the car, which goes with what i know about the car and its mileage, my trans is a Roto Hydramatic. 

when it comes to a new engine and trans the world is your oyster! you could go any way you want, its justA matter of how much you want to spend🙄

Me personally, i like the 389, its different, its high compression, and its pontiac  and factory, is way easier to deal with.

trans.... well, the guys will cut in here, but i understand the jetaway isnt a flash trans, neither is my roto, a good upgrade would be to get a Pontiac patterned turbo 400 maybe ????🙄 

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

The Turbohydramatic 400 transmission is a very economically viable upgrade from the Super turbine 300 (Jetaway) trans and can be done easily without major modifications or specialty parts.....The TH-200-R4 is also another good upgrade if you want overdrive for cruising down the highway looking cool with the top down...

Edited February 10, 2021 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP
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[64 kiwi boni]

Christmas time again !!!

more goodys from rock auto arrived today and I am super impressed, I order these parts 7 days ago 

and they are here in my hands on the other side of the planet in 7 days !!! 

 I cant get parts out of Auckland that fast !!! 

Edited February 11, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[64 kiwi boni]

All tune up gear and I am looking at these ac delco plugs and thinking they look sooo old school 😀

and you may be wondering why the rocker cover gaskets 🙄

my plan is to remove my rocker covers and sand blast them ,repaint and they will look mint as . 

Further down the track they will be upgraded , but for now sticking to stock  is cool as 🍻

[64 kiwi boni]

major score today guys !! My old mate at the radiator shop has built my new radiator !!!! check it out 👍👍👍👍

[64 kiwi boni]

super excited !! these are the last few parts i was waiting for to get the girl running..... kinda like,.....

its a live !!! hahaha

 

[64 kiwi boni]

I have a issue and I hope you guys can give me some ideas on how to sort this mess !!

i removed the rocker covers to find 57 years worth of crud !! 

So I have got in there with a screw driver and vacuum cleaner and very carefully moved all the sludge and flakes I can 

who can I clean this up better but without stuffing the motor ?

i was thinking of using petrol to carefully wash and us a rag to obsorb the wash up ... remembering 

I have had the sump off and all down there is nice and clean 

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

If the cylinder heads look like that...Chances are the lifter gallery/oil galleys are going to be just as bad... The screen on the oil pump might be half ass plugged too...Short of disassembling the engine and hot tanking it...I don't know...Perhaps Last Indian would know of some kind engine flush Chemical/procedure that would work without having to take everything apart...that could be put in the crankcase and using an oiling tool to turn the oil pump without actually running the engine.....

Wish I could be of more help......

Edited February 13, 2021 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[Last Indian]

8 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

I have a issue and I hope you guys can give me some ideas on how to sort this mess !!

i removed the rocker covers to find 57 years worth of crud !! 

So I have got in there with a screw driver and vacuum cleaner and very carefully moved all the sludge and flakes I can 

who can I clean this up better but without stuffing the motor ?

i was thinking of using petrol to carefully wash and us a rag to obsorb the wash up ... remembering 

I have had the sump off and all down there is nice and clean 

That’s what we call dried sludge/mayonnaise! Yeah that’s ugly! This will take some, unfortunately, tedious work! Obviously clean the valve covers off the car, because you can clean those beautiful! Do this with either stoddard solvent or kerosene! The heads will be much harder, unless you want to pull them?! If you pull them you would be able to complete disassemble them! Clean them really well, lap the valves, replace valve seals and clean passages you can’t get to without removal! Again you would use stoddard or kerosene! 
You are indicating that the oil pan is off, right? So if you don’t want to take off the heads I would suggest the following. Plug all the drain down holes as best you can. Again take stoddard or kerosene and a brush and clean everything you can, valve springs, rockers, inside head area, etc! This will get messy so protect all the surrounding area because you are going to create splatter! As you clean it, yes you will have to sop up the liquid mess! Once you get the inside area of the head somewhat clean; stop! Now wipe all you can dry, especially the gasket sealing surface! Put the motor back together when you are ready! When you are ready to fire the motor use a 10w30 or 40. Run the motor for about an hour after it gets warmed up! Shut it down drain the sump as soon as you can! Change the filter once it’s cool enough to do so! Refill with new oil! Run this oil about 50 miles, than drain the oil again while it’s hot! Change the filter refill with new oil! Now I would use 10w40 or 20w40 oil! From this point on I would change the oil every 1000 miles! When you get 5000 or so miles on the motor since this time frame pull a valve cover and see how the head condition has changed! So take a before picture so you have something to compare the later timeframe to!
 

[Last Indian]

41 minutes ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

If the cylinder heads look like that...Chances are the lifter gallery/oil galleys are going to be just as bad... The screen on the oil pump might be half ass plugged too...Short of disassembling the engine and hot tanking it...I don't know...Perhaps Last Indian would know of some kind engine flush Chemical/procedure that would work without having to take everything apart...that could be put in the crankcase and using an oiling tool to turn the oil pump without actually running the engine.....

Wish I could be of more help......

I agree 100% Two Lane!! But unless Kiwi wants to pull the motor and tear it down to the short block he has limited options! Most of the motor flush’s don’t have enough contact time with that type of sludge to do much to it! Plus most motor flush’s if run long enough to have any impact on that type of sludge, there is always a concern about small pieces breaking loose and blocking small orifice, like valve lifters! What I described above will tend to have the best results! Clean as much as you can, than use the TBN of a high quality oil to literally clean the inside of the motor over time! But in this process you have to keep the oil fresh, I.E. oil & filter change every 1000 miles max till you see the motor is clean, I.E. pull a valve cover! Another way you will know this is happening, pay attention as to the length of time it takes for the oil to get dirty! When you first start the oil will get dirty almost immediately, but as time goes on this occurrence will increase!

[64 kiwi boni]

1 hour ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

If the cylinder heads look like that...Chances are the lifter gallery/oil galleys are going to be just as bad... The screen on the oil pump might be half ass plugged too...Short of disassembling the engine and hot tanking it...I don't know...Perhaps Last Indian would know of some kind engine flush Chemical/procedure that would work without having to take everything apart...that could be put in the crankcase and using an oiling tool to turn the oil pump without actually running the engine.....

Wish I could be of more help......

thanks Two lane, i had the sump off when the motor was out and the bottom end was not too bad, i cleaned everything including the pick up screen.

i dont really want to pull the motor at this stage, i really want to get her on the road and if the motor turns out to be worn. then i will make the call to pull it and rebuild the lot.

1 hour ago, Last Indian said:

That’s what we call dried sludge/mayonnaise! Yeah that’s ugly! This will take some, unfortunately, tedious work! Obviously clean the valve covers off the car, because you can clean those beautiful! Do this with either stoddard solvent or kerosene! The heads will be much harder, unless you want to pull them?! If you pull them you would be able to complete disassemble them! Clean them really well, lap the valves, replace valve seals and clean passages you can’t get to without removal! Again you would use stoddard or kerosene! 
You are indicating that the oil pan is off, right? So if you don’t want to take off the heads I would suggest the following. Plug all the drain down holes as best you can. Again take stoddard or kerosene and a brush and clean everything you can, valve springs, rockers, inside head area, etc! This will get messy so protect all the surrounding area because you are going to create splatter! As you clean it, yes you will have to sop up the liquid mess! Once you get the inside area of the head somewhat clean; stop! Now wipe all you can dry, especially the gasket sealing surface! Put the motor back together when you are ready! When you are ready to fire the motor use a 10w30 or 40. Run the motor for about an hour after it gets warmed up! Shut it down drain the sump as soon as you can! Change the filter once it’s cool enough to do so! Refill with new oil! Run this oil about 50 miles, than drain the oil again while it’s hot! Change the filter refill with new oil! Now I would use 10w40 or 20w40 oil! From this point on I would change the oil every 1000 miles! When you get 5000 or so miles on the motor since this time frame pull a valve cover and see how the head condition has changed! So take a before picture so you have something to compare the later timeframe to!
 

Last indian, thank you  

i will go too and plug off the return holes with rags and get too with some kero, two lanes right the galleries will be full of it too, so best i buy bulk oil and follow your recommendations, it might be ok, but then the motor could very well be worn out. i wont know till i get her running and thats coming very soon now that i have the radiator back👍

[64 kiwi boni]

Cleaned up the heads as much as I could 

and sand blasted the painted the covers 👍

[JUSTA6]

Seem to be caught up already with your cleaning.  Really surprised you didn't have the same mess in the oil pan.  Doesn't make sense.  Last Indian has you covered.  I find one of my old tooth brushes work well N then toss. (or you could then post pics of using the toothbrush one more time)  LIL kero on the brush will finish cleaning for ya.  Back in the day an old trick was to run a quart of trans fluid (it had detergent)  get the engine good N hot, not under load.  Then change the oil and repeat as L Indian said.   Now might be a good time to run a compression check.  This will point in the direction you need to go.  Timing chain N gears will probably be JUSTAS nasty.   If the comp checks good  follow the oil change route.  That'll get expensive quick with the price of a quart of oil anymore.

[64 kiwi boni]

3 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

Seem to be caught up already with your cleaning.  Really surprised you didn't have the same mess in the oil pan.  Doesn't make sense.  Last Indian has you covered.  I find one of my old tooth brushes work well N then toss. (or you could then post pics of using the toothbrush one more time)  LIL kero on the brush will finish cleaning for ya.  Back in the day an old trick was to run a quart of trans fluid (it had detergent)  get the engine good N hot, not under load.  Then change the oil and repeat as L Indian said.   Now might be a good time to run a compression check.  This will point in the direction you need to go.  Timing chain N gears will probably be JUSTAS nasty.   If the comp checks good  follow the oil change route.  That'll get expensive quick with the price of a quart of oil anymore.

yip, your dead right JustA, when i had the sump off i was feeling pretty happy with the condition of everything, not so now that i have seen whats in the top...

compression test will be the next job and that will point me in the direction i need to go...

thing is i have had her running and she ran well.

But what a mess in the top!!! 

[Fitzy]

5 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Cleaned up the heads as much as I could 

and sand blasted the painted the covers 👍

Nice job, Kiwi. There's something very satisfying about the look of freshly painted rocker covers, especially when they are transformed from the rusty crud encrusted buckets that they started out as. I speak from experience, but you already know that!

Oh, by the way I'm not sure if this helps, but I compression tested my own 389 some weeks ago and the readings averaged around about 180 - 190. Engine seems to run sweet, no smoke, no funny noises...having said that I've never had the chance to get the thing on the road and drive it properly. Just like you, I'm growing impatient and want some action.

[Last Indian]

8 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

yip, your dead right JustA, when i had the sump off i was feeling pretty happy with the condition of everything, not so now that i have seen whats in the top...

compression test will be the next job and that will point me in the direction i need to go...

thing is i have had her running and she ran well.

But what a mess in the top!!! 

Kiwi, the sludge that you described and showed is typical of short run cycles! This type of sludge is made up of a heavy emulsion of water condensate and engine oil vapor, mixed together and most often deposited in the upper end of an engine! I did lots of work and testing in this area looking for the best additive remedy to deal with short cycle, cold weather driving! This is or was a major problem in the northeast US; as well as areas with similar weather characteristics! Since you really don’t know the condition of the motor, one additional step you could take to try and reduce the cost and labor duration would be this! 
For the initial startup get a bottle of Amsoil engine & transmission flush. Fill the engine with a good oil & new filter! Start the engine and let it idle only! When it is at operating temperature, shut it down. Add the Amsoil to the oil and restart! Let it idle for 15 minutes and vary the rpms between idle and 1500! Then shut it down! Let it sit 15 minutes! Then restart run it 10 more minutes, shut it down and drain it! Then do your oil & filter change! Run it 100 miles and do another oil change, note how dirty the oil is for just a 100 miles! Then follow that up with two consecutive 1000 mile oil changes and see what the oil looks like on the last oil drain vs the first oil drain that was done at the 100 mile mark!

Edited February 13, 2021 by Last Indian

[64 kiwi boni]

Last Indian , that completely explains why I found so much crud in the top of the motor and not the bottom👍👍👍

i found that there is one outlet for amsoil in new zealand and i will be on too them Monday morning to send me a bottle of flush

After a sleepless night worrying about the engines condition. 

Today I did a compression test and i very happy with the results 

all cylinders are within 10 psi and that tells me that my motor ain’t too bad 👍 

so I got on with installing the freshly cleaned up covers and did last Indians trick , I used silicon on one side of the cork gaskets , fitted them too the covers and just placed them on the engine .

Oh, and i dressed each of the mount points as the bolting down tends to stretch the area around each bolt hole 

i will leave it 24 hrs before torqueing them down so my gaskets done move out 👍

Edited February 14, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[64 kiwi boni]

I had pulled the plugs and the story they tell ain’t too bad 

So I went ahead , fitted rotor, cap leads and plugs 

I wasn’t happy with the lenghs  of the new leads so I cut them down so I had them all running nice and straight and I will buy some spacers to keep them seperate 

[64 kiwi boni]

And way better than the right angles leads that where on there, they where wrong as they clashed with the accelerator linkages 

I have rebuilt the 2 earth straps that go from the back of each head , cleaned them up , recrimped them and soldered them 

and tested there resistance too 

[64 kiwi boni]

All in all a productive 3 hours and now it’s beer o clock and we are off to the pub to have a beer and eat some steak 🍻🍻🍻

Oh and radiator is in , trans lines hooked 

and I will need to get some new hoses tomorrow 😀

[64 kiwi boni]

22 hours ago, Fitzy said:

.having said that I've never had the chance to get the thing on the road and drive it properly. Just like you, I'm growing impatient and want some action.

Fizty, i am like you, super keen to get the girl on the road and see what i have

justA want to ensure i have done all i can to ensure she ok, but without going over board at this stage, that's what can put a project into the too hard bin for most people then it sits and never gets finished.

[64 kiwi boni]

On 2/11/2021 at 6:16 PM, 64 kiwi boni said:

Christmas time again !!!

more goodys from rock auto arrived today and I am super impressed, I order these parts 7 days ago 

and they are here in my hands on the other side of the planet in 7 days !!! 

 I cant get parts out of Auckland that fast !!! 

note to self, check everything before ordering!!! i didnt check what type of points i have and ordered a set without a condenser built in.... guess what! yeah, i needed the set with a condenser built in  

Oh well, they where only 3 buckshaha, if i could buy them here in nz they would have been 25-30 Bucks!!!

[64 kiwi boni]

More rock auto gear arrived today 

air filter and Pontiac blue coil 

[Fitzy]

On 2/14/2021 at 6:24 PM, 64 kiwi boni said:

note to self, check everything before ordering!!! i didnt check what type of points i have and ordered a set without a condenser built in.... guess what! yeah, i needed the set with a condenser built in  

Oh well, they where only 3 buckshaha, if i could buy them here in nz they would have been 25-30 Bucks!!!

I seem to favour Ames for parts because I'm yet to receive the wrong item, the prices are very good and the stuff gets here very quickly. I can also ask advice on what they recommend, so am very happy with their service. Having said all that, it is now 10 months since I ordered front seat upholstery and it's still not here. I did some research, and am assuming that PUI are supplying the product and they are operating a skeleton crew to keep things ticking over during these difficult times. Never mind, plenty to keep me occupied in the meantime. Dontcha love buying parts that are about a tenth of what they cost down here?

[64 kiwi boni]

9 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Dontcha love buying parts that are about a tenth of what they cost down here?

yes Fitzy, we get ripped off big time !! a classic example is the simple spark plug.... at supercheap in town a plug will, set me back $11.

while to order a plug from rockauto on the other side of the planet is $1.69 nzd  and when i buy 8 my freight was justA 11 bucks !

 i agree with you about Ames, for all i have bought from them everything has been perfect. Great service and as you found great advise too. 👍