Fitzy's GP is back!

[64 kiwi boni]

1 hour ago, Frosty said:

Cast metal alloy of some sort. Not 100% sure what it is. Its definitely not iron, its too light for iron (and it isn't rusting(. Its not all aluminum, although I suspect the "heads and intake" are aluminum. The grille is stainless steel. So is the handle, timing cover and air cleaner.

Nice 👍👍

[Fitzy]

Never mind Frosty's V8 barbeque: guess who got his own REAL V8 going today? It runs, feels powerful, eager to rev and sounds like a bloody hotrod! I was expecting the old grandpa V8 burble but with the headers, 068 cam and fancy twin exhaust, it sounds like it's gonna dispense with the quarter mile in no time flat.

The story: after coffee and dithering about I decide I cannot keep postponing the event. I was nervous coz if it didn't run I didn't know what I was going to do. I sit in the car, nervously twist the key...and nothing. The sound of silence. I got under the bloody car again, pulled the starter and researched the wiring and in the end, took it to an auto sparky to bench test. I heard that baby spin from where I was standing at the front counter. Then I realise that the mechanic who installed it had put the starter wire to the wrong terminal. More to the point, after replacing my head bolts with ARPs, the factory one that's a stud is there to accommodate the battery earth lead. I had routed that lead to the alternator housing but was admonished by the auto sparky who said it wasn't going to work without a decent earth, so I found an alternate spot where it now connects directly to the block. I twist the key and hear the starter turn the engine. Lesson learnt. Starters need GOOD earth - the best you can come up with.

I turn the engine and wait, but nothing. After much fiddling with points and double checking everything AGAIN I'm starting to doubt myself about how I positioned the distributor, but I KNOW I did it right coz I checked it over & over. I have a closer look at my nice new 7mm solid core ignition leads. I was never happy with the way they just don't seem to snap onto the plugs correctly. After much fumbling & screwing around I decide I don't have time for this and shall modify them at a later date, so I dig out my crusty filthy 55 year old factory leads, plug them in and think "oh well, let's see what happens." That baby fired up in less than a second. Once tuned and sorted I'll attempt to post a video. It sounds awesome. I have attached a very quick video of me fumbling with the phone wondering how to take a video! The smoke is a mixture of exhaust (now fixed) and paint & gasket sealer curing fumes.

   

 

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Fitzy

[JUSTA6]

Happy for ya.  Gotta love it when she 1st fires.

[Frosty]

Fitzy, mate, I am so happy for you! She's a runner! Hopefully she'll be a goer in no time!

So tell me, is the Frosty Memorial Tach wired properly and working too? I ask for purely selfish reasons!!! LOL!

Keep up the good work mate! Cheers! 

[64 kiwi boni]

Nice work mate!!! all worth the effort too 

[Wrongway]

Hell yeah Fitzy! Great job bro! 

[Fitzy]

Thanks guys. I shall post a far better video once I've sorted a few things. Getting it to idle smoothly so that I can actually get to the engine & fiddle with it is the first thing I gotta do. Old engine had an untraceable vacuum leak and it sounds like it's there again, preventing a smooth idle. I'll dig deeper.

And I KNEW Frosty would want to know if his old tacho was hooked up! Not yet, mate. I didn't want extra wires to worry about potentially sabotaging the initial fire up if things didn't go right. I shall connect it once I sort everything else.

[Frosty]

Aw, dang it!

[64 kiwi boni]

No idleing until  that cams broken in mate !! 👍👍

[Fitzy]

Yeah, cam got acquainted with lifters yesterday. After she fired up I ran it for about 20 mins at about 2 grand just like I was told.

Today, after much running around I finally got some time to play with the car. I checked all inlet manifold bolts for tightness and forensically inspected every hose & takeoff for potential air leaks - everything is tight & in good repair. I snugged down the carby nuts and was then satisfied that if there's a leak, it's my imagination. Bloody Carter AFBs have that stupid idle air screw. What's wrong with a regular screw & spring? I cobbled together a solution to make it idle at about 1500 rpm, then played with the 3 idle screws. NOW it idles nicely. I then wanted to check the dwell on the points and realised that it had been so long I had forgotten the procedure! That's tonight's homework. A mate gave me his ancient tach/dwell tester (remember those Olde Worlde things?) along with a xenon timing light. The memories! Anyway, I managed to check and adjust the static timing so it's now spot on and engine sounds happy. I seem to have some excess lifter noise, even though all the rocker nuts were snugged to 20 ft/lbs as per the specs. I remember doing just that (off the cam lobes) and then wiggling each pushrod as a check and they were all (in my eyes) loose. I'll have a go at a 'seat of my pants' adjustment tomorrow, whereupon you keep tightening the rocker nut until you can just manage to turn the pushrod. At least I know all the lifters will be pumped up by now. There's a tiny coolant weep from the thermostat housing which I'll get around to but otherwise she's good. I shall 'modify' those solid core leads so I can actually use them. I'm gonna fill the TH400 with Dex 3 tomorrow and should then be able to finally actually drive the car. Stand back!

Whoops! Forgot to mention. I timed engine with dizzy vacuum plugged and had it spot on. I then reattached vac line to manifold port and noticed that timing was advanced at idle. When I dismantled engine initially, dizzy vacuum came from  a tube at the TOP of the carby, so that's something else to explore.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Fitzy
Forgot something

[64 kiwi boni]

on mine the vac for the dissy comes from the rear bottom port that the power brakes feeds off to, if that helps mate

[Fitzy]

I know where you speak of. On mine, that port is for the brake booster and the trans. I just checked the factory workshop manual and it states that distributor vacuum is manifold ported to ensure vacuum advance at idle. I have connected it to that hollow carby stud whereas when I dismantled everything, there is a tube at the TOP of the carby, just below the air horn rim. I dunno. I'll see what the timing light reveals tomorrow and will make a decision.

Can't wait to ease that beast up the driveway and poke it's nose out into the wider world! Gotta take it easy coz driveway has bunds sculpted into it (torrential rain is due) and damn car is LOW. 

[Fitzy]

Here's a hot tip: when you install your distributor, if you still have points & condenser ensure that the little points dwell adjusting window is facing outwards at about 90° to the engine's axis. This will enable you to actually get to that hex head adjuster. Let's just say that I learnt the hard way when my own little adjustment window was offset by about 40° and there I was with the engine running trying to squeeze a hex wrench into that impossible angle. I tried to picture what crazy device GM techs would have come up with when it dawned on me that perhaps if I turned the dizzy body around a bit, it was accessible. After I got zapped by the points current diverting through me as I was fiddling with that hex wrench, I fixed the issue.

Took car up driveway, it JUST made it over the driveway bunds and poked it out onto the street, got scared and turned it around. It's bogging down and carrying on off idle. I always had Holleys in the past - never a problem.

[64 kiwi boni]

sounds like a fuel issue mate.  check that fuel pump squirt like i have had a issue with ... laggs when you put your foot into it ?

[Wrongway]

I also had a fuel pump issue Fitzy. It would idle but had no power when I tried to move her. I tried a couple different things before finally replacing the hose from the pump to the carb with a clear hose and a pressure gauge. It was pumping up to the carb but when stepping on the gas the pressure would drop off. I replaced the pump and the 2nd one (brand new from the parts house). wouldn't even let the car idle. I put the clear hose on the pick up side and into a gas can under the pump. It wouldn't even pull the fuel up to the pump, pulled it maybe 3/4 of the way up the hose. I think I post a video back then. I finally got a pump that worked right and it fixed the problem. I'm with Kiwi ol'buddy, check that pump.

[Fitzy]

Thanks boys. The pump looked like it had been replaced when I first got the car. Wrongway sez that his brand new pump wouldn't even pump correctly. Apart from being faulty, how could that be? Kiwi, I thought your issue was accelerator pump. When I peer into the carb and pull the throttle there's a good squirt of fuel from both nozzles so it would seem that the accelerator pump is working. If the float bowls are full then surely the fuel pump is doing it's thing. My issue is when I move the car and accelerate from idle - it carries on and is reluctant to increase revs smoothly. I can sit in the carport and it'll rev no problem. I'll keep fiddling. Adjusted the dwell yesterday and redid the timing but forgot to disconnect the vacuum hose, so today's task is to check that the manifold port defo has vacuum, then plug it, redo the timing, then reconnect. I closed the spark plug gap up a little prior to the engine's initial start so I'll return those gaps to spec and I'll need to do some surgery on those goddam HT leads. For some reason, their spark plug ends will not fit snugly on the plugs whereas the other end once inserted into the dizzy cap takes a herd of elephants to try and remove. Once all THAT is done, the ignition system is sorted. If the car still carries on, it'll be fuel.

Is there a reason why Holleys on Pontiacs don't seem to be that popular?  Holleys appear to be no nonsense: open the throttle, fuel is dumped in. I'm sorta wondering if the Carters were tickled to make the car smooth under all conditions whereas Holleys were always about performance. Have I got it wrong?

Also, whilst fiddling with points yesterday it reminded me of how far cars have been developed since the 60s. Despite the complexity, you can't compete with EFI, individual coil packs and all the other high tech stuff that gives unrivalled power, economy, flexibility & reliability. I probably should have sprung for a Pertronix electronic setup: they're actually pretty cheap but I have no experience of them.

One more thing: whilst chatting to my skin doctor I asked him who owns the Mustang (current model) out the front. He admitted it was his. We chatted about it and he said he test drove several high end cars but it was that V8 burble that sold it. I told him about my GP and showed him a coupla pics. He said he loves the older cars but doesn't have the skills to keep them going. Fair enough. He said he was looking for a family car, so he bought the Stang and it now has a baby seat in the back! Take your SUV to the tip, people - it's now official: US coupes are family cars.

[Fitzy]

First of all, pulled dizzy vac hose off manifold port and engine died, so it's working. Plugged both ends, timing was waaay out. Readjusted, reconnected vac hose, engine sounds happy again. Regapped the plugs, modified my HT leads and started her up. Took it up the driveway and no hint of hesitation or histrionics: strong straight off the mark. Now I REALLY wanna take it for a test drive. Seems to have a very low diff ratio (numerically) coz it almost idled up and down the drive even though I gave it a squirt both times. So, for all you peeps with a similar vintage Poncho, for the 65 389s at least, it is imperative that dizzy vacuum is ported directly to manifold and that you set the timing with that hose disconnected and plugged. 

I wired up the Frosty Memorial Tach to appropriate coil - and a + point and tried to start engine. No dice - seems that tach was robbing power from both contacts - engine would only run when both wires were removed from the coil, but tach needs coil - in order to get a signal. Even with + straight to battery, engine would not start.

Someone must know what's going on. Your thoughts, please.

[64 kiwi boni]

20 minutes ago, Fitzy said:

First of all, pulled dizzy vac hose off manifold port and engine died, so it's working. Plugged both ends, timing was waaay out. Readjusted, reconnected vac hose, engine sounds happy again. Regapped the plugs, modified my HT leads and started her up. Took it up the driveway and no hint of hesitation or histrionics: strong straight off the mark. Now I REALLY wanna take it for a test drive. Seems to have a very low diff ratio (numerically) coz it almost idled up and down the drive even though I gave it a squirt both times. So, for all you peeps with a similar vintage Poncho, for the 65 389s at least, it is imperative that dizzy vacuum is ported directly to manifold and that you set the timing with that hose disconnected and plugged. 

I wired up the Frosty Memorial Tach to appropriate coil - and a + point and tried to start engine. No dice - seems that tach was robbing power from both contacts - engine would only run when both wires were removed from the coil, but tach needs coil - in order to get a signal. Even with + straight to battery, engine would not start.

Someone must know what's going on. Your thoughts, please.

mate you get your signal from the - only, at the coil to the tac.... the + goes to switched ignition 

the tach reads pulses from the points to earth 👍

so somethings not right....i think you hooking to the + is where your going wrongway, but thats JustA my kiwi 10 cents 

Edited December 18, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[Fitzy]

If you guys get bored enough, can someone check their tacho (any tacho) and tell me how many wires feed it? From my online research, every tacho seems to need 4 wires, but the Frosty Memorial Tach only came with 3, probably why I got it cheap! 😁

[JUSTA6]

Hot wire, ground and the 3rd should be the backlight????

[Fitzy]

Spot on, but apparently the tach needs it's own earth as well.

[64 kiwi boni]

3 hours ago, Fitzy said:

If you guys get bored enough, can someone check their tacho (any tacho) and tell me how many wires feed it? From my online research, every tacho seems to need 4 wires, but the Frosty Memorial Tach only came with 3, probably why I got it cheap! 😁

power feed from ignition switch, feed from negitive side of coil, power feed from dash light circut and earth/ ground 

 mate its just on 100f in my shed today !! why are you send us all this bloody heat !!!

Edited December 25, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[JUSTA6]

2 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Spot on, but apparently the tach needs it's own earth as well.

Ground should be for the tach, you wire into your backlights for the dash so it all turns on when you hit the switch. 

[Fitzy]

I'll make it clear: SHOULD be a +, an earth, a feed from coil negative and an illumination. I only have 3.

Does anyone have a Pontiac factory tach? I just want to know if it's supposed to have 4 wires.

Oh, and I'm at work at the moment which is close to Darwin, so plenty of tropical storms and a potential cyclone is forming. It's been hot but is now just hot & wet.

[64 kiwi boni]

2 hours ago, Fitzy said:

I'll make it clear: SHOULD be a +, an earth, a feed from coil negative and an illumination. I only have 3.

Does anyone have a Pontiac factory tach? I just want to know if it's supposed to have 4 wires.

Oh, and I'm at work at the moment which is close to Darwin, so plenty of tropical storms and a potential cyclone is forming. It's been hot but is now just hot & wet.

mate if your tach has 3 wires the ground and the signal from the coil are combined .

but dont justA run a wire from the coil negative, do a good ground to that same wire