Justa quick update got the module put in and I do have spark. She tried to start and died; glass fuel filter was empty. Went and got 5 gallons of gas and she still wouldn't start. I did flip the distributor around with the vacuum can on the passenger side. Shes sounds good as she spinning and did try to start. Going to clean the plugs again tomorrow and go from there.

baby steps mate, justA get all your ducks in a row.

she will fire up 

What's your confusion brother Justa? If I'm missing something or doing something wrongway speak on it ol'buddy. 

So sometimes I don't explain things well enough or don't have the words to convey my thoughts clearly. The reason I spun the housing 180 degrees from the original position with the vacuum advance on the driver's side is to me, every time that I got close to the "sweet spot" I ran out of room for adjustment. The engine would start, and I would pull the Vac Advance toward the motor (clockwise). As the RPMs would start to speed up the vac adv. would hit the corner of the block and stop me from adjusting. I would pull the distributor, move it 1 tooth and start over. Now it would run rougher, almost like I was justa past that sweet spot, now I couldn't adjust it back do to hitting the firewall. Theres just not enough room for this huge distributor. So, my thought was to rotate the housing to see if I could hit the "sweet spot" from the passenger side with a bit more room for adjustment. I think I'm in it or close. I know I have spark because I got zapped while touching the plug to the negative battery terminal and my son said he seen the spark when I got zapped. I'm thinking that all the times trying to start her before the module went out might have fouled out the plugs again, not sure but I figured that would be the easiest thing to check first. I did not get a chance to pull the plugs yesterday due to rain and it looks like rain today to. I value y'all's option and truly appreciate everybody that's chimed in, offered advice, and tried to help. If this isn't correct, if there's a problem or could be a problem or if the thought process is flawed, please let me know.

Thanks again 

On 4/29/2025 at 11:02 AM, Wrongway said:

What's your confusion brother Justa? If I'm missing something or doing something wrongway speak on it ol'buddy. 

Seems like ya have all ya need to make the lightning whirler, shoot down the lightning tubes N make the sparkalators pop.  Ya should be out doing burnouts for distance.  Fuel pump?  Have ya tried a lil gas down the carb (fuel makeithappener) 

GAWD I love this guy.  Repeat anything he say's N it brings a smile to everyones face. 

Edited April 30, 20251 yr by JUSTA6

At this point if the tires moved of their own free will I'd be happy . After getting zapped I did consider fuel. I still have 6psi at the gauge, the pump is a bit quieter, but the glass fuel filter wasn't filling up when I turned the power on like it did before. I disconnected the fuel line at the carb and gas tank and blew air through. It didn't seem to have a clog. I turned on power and wait a few, still very little fuel it the filter, almost like its seeping in. I tried to start it with starting fluid, and she tried to fire. I figured she was still out of time a bit and the vac advanced was against the block, so I moved the housing around at that point. It's a brand new holly fuel pump part# 12-82-1 set at 6PSI using the regulator that came with it. Is it possible 6PSI is flooding it? It did look like a lot of gas when I looked in it and stroked the throttle. I justa chalked that up to 800cfm vs the 600cfm I was used to and the multiple streams of the AVS opposed to one stream of the old carbs.

I should've mentioned, after trying to start her with starting fluid the fuel filter does fill up when turning the power on now.

Edited April 30, 20251 yr by Wrongway

3 hours ago, Wrongway said:

I know I have spark because I got zapped while touching the plug to the negative battery terminal and my son said he seen the spark when I got zapped.

geees Mate !!!!! please be careful !!!!!

3 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

Seems like ya have all ya need to make the lightning whirler, shoot down the lightning tubes N make the sparkalators pop.  Ya should be out doing burnouts for distance.  Fuel pump?  Have ya tried a lil gas down the carb (fuel makeithappener) 

GAWD I love this guy.  Repeat anything he say's N it brings a smile to everyones face. 

Ya’ll can get more of Derek Bieri on his YouTube channels Vice Grip Garage and Vice Grip Lodge. You might occasionally see him on other former Motortrend TV show hosts channels too.

I usually ground a plug to the exhaust manifold or bolt on intake or Justa tape it to the valve cover. Be careful for sure.  Made the mistake once and grabbed the top of an HEI with the coil right there on top N melted my wedding ring in half.   We had to get a new set of rings.  Will never forget that ZAP!

Wrongway - with the correct timing mark on the crank pulley in the right spot and the dizzy body located where you want it, with the ignition on you should be able to turn the housing just a smidge to get a spark. I use a static timing light for this but from the sound of it, when you get zapped that's the spark you want. This is when you must have #1 lead where the rotor is pointing and then check your firing order (anti clockwise.) As JustA said, fill the float bowls thru the vent tubes with fuel - I use a syringe.

Your engine should fire up instantly and then you can use the timing light to get it spot on as it's idling.

I know I'm repeating myself but with all those steps done it's gotta fire up.

So, I got to thinking last night after a couple drinks, and it doesn't matter what make, model, brand engine you're working on. Timing is timing. This isn't the first engine I've timed, it's justa the first engine that's given me these kinds of problems. So, I figured it's me, maybe the dizzy or maybe fuel like Justa suggested after the zapping. I went through and reread everything everybody said (thank you again) and one more time started all over and recorded what I think pretty much covers everything. I made sure my son kept the fuel filter and fuel PSI gauge in frame. In the first video you can see fuel squirting into the carb. I waited a few min and tried bottle feeding it as Fitzy suggested. The second video shows my mark and the numbers on the balancer, I forgot to show TDC on #1 but I did check that also and we are TDC, it also shows the rotor and cap location. If the videos load correctly the third video, I am trying the start with the vac can in the middle so I had adjustment room both directions, The fourth video is trying to start with the vac can turned clockwise against the firewall and the fifth video is with the vac can pulled counterclockwise against the engine block. I was going to clean the plugs a second time the other day and have not, after pulling the #1 plug to check TDC it still looked clean, so I did not pull the rest. I did try the move the dizzy one tooth in each direction and the RPMs slowed down so I settled on this location for now. I feel like Bobo the fool sitting here eating a box of crackers with y'all giving great advice on something that should really be so simple and not solving the problem. I did want y'all to see I really am taking your advice. 

I watched all the vids: I still think the timing is off. You checked the valve movement on #1 cylinder to ensure timing mark isn't 180° off? Remember, you want both valves closed when timing mark comes around to meet the mark. With that correct & rotor at #1 plug lead and with leads in correct order and nice clean gapped plugs it has to work. Did you check for spark at actual plug by grounding plug whilst cranking? I see a good squirt of fuel going in so that should be fine. A short spray of WD40 or similar in the carb will help start the most recalcitrant motor.

For God's sake - try & avoid getting zapped. Use someone expendable to turn dizzy body...like a Kiwi.

My 421 has 2 timing marks.  Drove me nuts til I found the second mark.  Check yours for a #2 and start over with that one.  You really can't trust any balancer, as that rubber is 62 yrs old.  The outside edge can/will slip.  Pull the valve cover, go to TDC on #1,  check where your pointer is on the balancer and where your rotor is aimed. 

Yip I am with justA … double check your Tdc mate 

and hold my beer 

I can take a zap 

 

 

It sounds 180 out ? 
 

In one of those vids, I'm sure the engine was fighting it's own compression which suggests timing issue OR timing to cam sync not correct.

Critical that #1 is true TDC and rotor to #1 is correct.

4 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Did you check for spark at actual plug by grounding plug whilst cranking?

Yes sir I did, after changing the module. That was when I got zapped, but my son said he seen the spark. 

4 hours ago, Fitzy said:

You checked the valve movement on #1 cylinder to ensure timing mark isn't 180° off?

 

3 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

Pull the valve cover, go to TDC on #1

I did not pull the valve cover; I forgot that part with everything else I was doing. I did check that I was not 180 out by pulling the dizzy and turning it 180 out and trying to start it. I was told years ago that if it backfired through the carb it was 180 out. I let it backfire a couple times while trying to start it and turned it back to where it currently is. I know that's probable the wrongway to check it, but it's the only way I knew. (If that is incorrect let me know pls). I WILL pull the valve cover and reline everything tomorrow and try again and post the videos.

4 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

My 421 has 2 timing marks.  Drove me nuts til I found the second mark.  Check yours for a #2 and start over with that one.

Interesting, I ran my thumb nail around my balancer this morning trying to confirm that my sharpie line was indeed on the factory mark. I could not see or feel anything on the balancer. So, my line may very well be off a bit. 

 

5 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Use someone expendable to turn dizzy body...like a Kiwi.

Yup, I need to find a victim to use for a few days 

 

So, If I am understanding this correctly, pull the valve cover off the driver's side where #1 plug is. Turn the engine to till I'm at TDC on #1 and both valves are completely closed. Make sure that the rotor is facing #1 plug wire on the cap. Even if the mark on the balancer is off, she should fire up?

3 hours ago, Wrongway said:

So, If I am understanding this correctly, pull the valve cover off the driver's side where #1 plug is. Turn the engine to till I'm at TDC on #1 and both valves are completely closed. Make sure that the rotor is facing #1 plug wire on the cap. Even if the mark on the balancer is off, she should fire up

That’s it mate 

i stick a bit of wire down number one plug hole to justA get that … close as to top dead center as I can too 

and regardless of your balancer mark ! That’s the real Tdc !

No, after watching the inlet valve close whilst turning engine by hand, then watch as pulley timing mark comes around. When it lines up with the corresponding mark on timing cover both valves will be completely closed. Now you need to turn the dizzy body (only the body - you're not pulling the whole diz and repositioning it)  until you get a spark. Where the rotor is pointing is now your #1 position on the cap. Mark the outside of dizzy body if you want to show where rotor is pointing. Depending on how you've positioned everything, you may have to replug all HT leads on the cap to maintain correct firing order, anticlockwise from #1.

The main thing is: TDC on cylinder #1/ timing marks line up/rotor pointing to #1 on cap. 

It has to fire up!

1 minute ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

That’s it mate 

i stick a bit of wire down number one plug hole to justA get that … close as to top dead center as I can too 

and regardless of your balancer mark ! That’s the real Tdc !

That's too confusing. We just want the basics so it runs. Once idling the timing can be adjusted. This is assuming that the crank pulley is in good nick and hasn't spun on it's rubber insert. You checked that, right?

8 hours ago, Fitzy said:

This is assuming that the crank pulley is in good nick and hasn't spun on it's rubber insert. You checked that, right?

Everything thing was checked and inspected when I built the engine, but that was almost 5 years ago bro. As far as making sure it hasn't spun since then, I'm not sure how one would check that. One of the most confusing things to me is that I had her running. Sounded good a couple years ago. I even took her for a short drive. Thats when the trans went out. I had her towed home and had the trans rebuilt. I haven't driven her since because I did a bunch of other non-engine stuff to her. But I did have her running after.

Going to go pull the valve cover after I finish my coffee and I send y'all the videos.

So here's the current video and I stopped at this point for y'all to have a look before I go any farther. To me it looks like both valves are closed. The line on the balancer is above the 0 about a 1/4" and looking at the rotor and cap location it looks to me that the rotor is maybe a tooth forward. But I did not change anything from yesterday's videos as of yet. FYI, it's a 2min video of me getting to TDC. If I need to do something else or you need to see something else justa let me know.

The timing mark looks way off. With #1 near TDC, the crank pulley mark should be on about 12° BTDC.

That is, #12 on the timing cover numbers. From what I can see, your Sharpie mark is a few degrees AFTER TDC. Even so, it should still run at that setting. Actually, because you have measured piston travel right up to TDC the mark may be accurate.

Why is there a Sharpie mark? Is there not at least one notch on the pulley?

As far as checking for a spun pulley I don't know how one checks. Perhaps if you remove the V belt and check pulley for any movement? Perhaps someone can chime in here?

I think you mentioned you have a nice healthy 12V getting to the distributor? Can you measure the input voltage as you're cranking to ensure the starter isn't robbing all power from the diz?

Remember to give it a shot of WD40 as you're cranking (stand back!)    There's no engine on earth that won't fire up when you do that.

Just looked up how to check for a spun pulley:

The sharpie mark was put there years ago after I built it. I can't see or feel the original mark. I'm going to sand it down and try to find it. It may be Monday before I can. Rain all weekend,,, again.

Wrongway? Where are you? I keep checking in because I have some self created vested interest in knowing your engine fired up.

You've probably sensibly walked away and let it lay until you can revisit it with a clear head and renewed energy...or you're now dousing it with gas and have a lighter ready.

We've all been there.

3 minutes ago, Fitzy said:

Wrongway? Where are you? I keep checking in because I have some self created vested interest in knowing your engine fired up.

You've probably sensibly walked away and let it lay until you can revisit it with a clear head and renewed energy...or you're now dousing it with gas and have a lighter ready.

We've all been there.

mate ! 

didnt you get the memo? 

wrongway and mee are drinking beers and thinking this out ? 

we are going to do a swap. he like my crewman and i like his olds 

7 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

mate ! 

didnt you get the memo? 

wrongway and mee are drinking beers and thinking this out ? 

we are going to do a swap. he like my crewman and i like his olds 

So this is technically a beer run?

 

 

LIsten to him Flounder, he's in pre-med!