Jump to content
Forums Gone... but not forgotten!
Pontiac of the Month

J J Web's 1967 Lemans

2024 May
of the Month

  • Rev up your passion for Pontiacs and join our vibrant community of enthusiasts!

    Whether you're a die-hard fan of classic muscle cars or you've got a soft spot for sleek modern models, you've found your home here at Forever Pontiac. Our community is dedicated to celebrating everything Pontiac, from the iconic GTO to the legendary Firebird and everything in between.

    Unlock access to expert advice, stunning photo galleries, engaging discussions, exclusive events, and more!

    Start your Pontiac journey with us today!

    Sign up now! 🏁

Kiwi’s next adventure


Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

see what happens when you let a kiwi have a thread on fp !!! :rofl:
fitzy , hold my beer while I use this big bottle of twink and fix each page of this thread 😜

Oh , and it’s day 2 of jet lag !! Not fun at all 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

If you stay intoxicated while jet lagged, you won't notice the difference and you have an excuse too! :rofl:

Cheers mate! :cheers:

Edited by Frosty
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tired of these Ads? Register Today!

I wouldn't worry about tweaking your text to keep this crowd happy. You've only mildly offended one punter - not bad, really.

I am happy to be corrected, but the Eiffel Tower predates welding and so is held together by rivets, as was everything else, including steel hulled ships. What an onerous process that must have been. I THINK the rivets were heated very hot and then inserted into predrilled holes and the bloke on the inside would pound the shank until it sat flush against the steel thereby creating a tight weatherproof seal. George Jetson may have had aching "button pressing fingers," but imagine how you felt after 12 hours of using a sledge. Almost as tiring as reading through my posts.

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Yes I know last Indian , I was thinking the same thing ! Mr Eiffel built a tower for the world fair , the Chrysler building was for people to work in , big diff ! 
non the less , impressive to look at , and so glad they didn’t pull it down in the 20’s like they planned, that would have been a waste. 
last Indian , the one thing I enjoy about traveling is looking at how stuff has been built ! I dont care if it was built yesterday or 400 years ago, I have an appreciation for the men and woman who physically built them 🙏along with what they built them out of !!! 
I have seen a far share of stone in the last 3 weeks and that in its self is a hard product to build from ! 

I couldn’t agree more! Don’t get me wrong I think the Eiffel Tower is a very notable, as well as an important achievement in engineering. I believe most have seen me say before that the old timers were pretty damn smart! That goes back to the beginning of it all. Look at the pyramids! Stonehenge, which clearly is only a fragment of what it once was, The Great Wall of China. 
Did you know that there is a reference in the Bible that correlates the alignment of the great pyramids, Stonehenge & Tara! 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Fitzy said:

I am happy to be corrected, but the Eiffel Tower predates welding and so is held together by rivets, as was everything else, including steel hulled ships. What an onerous process that must have been. I THINK the rivets were heated very hot and then inserted into predrilled holes and the bloke on the inside would pound the shank until it sat flush against the steel thereby creating a tight weatherproof seal. George Jetson may have had aching "button pressing fingers," but imagine how you felt after 12 hours of using a sledge. Almost as tiring as reading through my posts.

but i bet the workers where used to doing that back then Fitzy, and i am pretty sure they had beer back then... soooo !:cheers:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Fitzy said:

I wouldn't worry about tweaking your text to keep this crowd happy. You've only mildly offended one punter - not bad, really.

I am happy to be corrected, but the Eiffel Tower predates welding and so is held together by rivets, as was everything else, including steel hulled ships. What an onerous process that must have been. I THINK the rivets were heated very hot and then inserted into predrilled holes and the bloke on the inside would pound the shank until it sat flush against the steel thereby creating a tight weatherproof seal. George Jetson may have had aching "button pressing fingers," but imagine how you felt after 12 hours of using a sledge. Almost as tiring as reading through my posts.

Must be true as i seen that on the simpsons..LOL

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

last indian,  i do have a real aprecation for  the engineering that went into these things, like fitzy said, the Eiffel tower and all its rivets , not a single weld.... they must have had to hoist every hunk of steel up and drill holes by hand,,,, i am picturing a egg beater drill !! then up in the air they must have been heating up rivits to bash the shit out of ...... times twenty five million  !!

imagine how many broken drill bits they must of had !!!:rofl:

let a lone how many of those hot rivets they must have dropped !!! :rofl:

hence i have a big appreciation for what they had to do to build it, i am so pleased we have milwaukee m18 these days !!! :rofl:

and mig/tig welders :rofl:

Once again a lost art! And of course my statement about the old timers! Do you know why they used rivets? And while I doubt it would have made little difference, if the twin towers had used rivets is just possible that there might have been more time to get out! But we’ll never know!

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Titanic was also rivetted together as were all steam locomotive boilers. Pressurised steam is really hard to contain but rivets did the job and those boilers were testament to excellent craftmanship.

I saw something once on how they attach jet engines to 747s (or something else?) Each engine is attached by only 4 bolts which are delivered in liquid nitrogen and the assemblers have to get it right as they only get one chance to retrieve the bolt and get it in the hole before the ambient temp makes it expand. They're made of some super duper material that is guaranteed not to fail.

Similarly, I saw something where Peterbilt truck cabin sections are glued together rather than welded or bolted. Once set, the adhesive is so strong that if you force the sections apart, the metal will tear and the glue will NOT give in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/11/2024 at 11:47 AM, Last Indian said:

Once again a lost art! And of course my statement about the old timers! Do you know why they used rivets? And while I doubt it would have made little difference, if the twin towers had used rivets is just possible that there might have been more time to get out! But we’ll never know!

No. Don’t ! 
is it because they can expand and contract like the steel they are holding ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Titanic was also rivetted together as were all steam locomotive boilers. Pressurised steam is really hard to contain but rivets did the job and those boilers were testament to excellent craftmanship.

I saw something once on how they attach jet engines to 747s (or something else?) Each engine is attached by only 4 bolts which are delivered in liquid nitrogen and the assemblers have to get it right as they only get one chance to retrieve the bolt and get it in the hole before the ambient temp makes it expand. They're made of some super duper material that is guaranteed not to fail.

Similarly, I saw something where Peterbilt truck cabin sections are glued together rather than welded or bolted. Once set, the adhesive is so strong that if you force the sections apart, the metal will tear and the glue will NOT give in.

 

14 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

No. Don’t ! 
is it because they can expand and contract like the steel they are holding ?

Fitzy’s on to it! Bolts only clamp & beyond that, nothing else. All critically engineered applications use to be riveted. Today, that mentality has diminished. Some applications have given way to welding & rightfully so, but those applications require certified welders that have to pass a specific welding test once a year. It requires very specific material with very specific chamfer angle cuts. The welds are inspected for penetration & than the sample is crushed. A break in the welds on being crushed is a fail. There must be 4 samples provide & all must pass to be certified. 

In theory only one bolt holds the rest are in a resting state & provide alignment. This is how bolts work the tightest bolt holds incrementally speaking. Depending on the size bolt the style head & the material being clamped the tightest bolt over time stretches or the material compresses. This allows the next tightest bolt to take over. This process continues on & on, all very subtly, but nonetheless less this is what occurs. This is what necessitated the reason for torqued bolts & torque patterns, & than advanced to today’s process of torque patterns with torque loads followed by a finial angle degree. This is as accurate as you can get when coupled with bolts that are made to stretch with spring tension. 

Yet this still leaves you with nothing but a clamping force! For components that have to be assembled & disassembled that’s understandable & acceptable.

Rivets are different, remember the old timers! Rivets don’t clamp! Rivet holes are fairly precise & there is a actual process followed to rivet materials together, but I won’t go into that. A rivet when it is bucked  expands in the rivet hole, swells. This expansion is so great it can only be removed by cutting off the swelled end of the rivet, then drilling a hole large enough through the center of the rivet that when enough pressure is applied to the end of the rivet the side wall structure will collapse & the rivet will come out. Because of this design each rivet holds equally & in all applications this design can sacrifice more than half of the rivets & still carry the load of the design. To this day you will not find an aircraft that is assembled with anything but rivets! 

All steel structure buildings, bridges & the like were once assembled with rivets only! Today they use bolts! Very large bolts! Yet the same principles that I laid out still apply. This is why I said what I said about the Twin Towers! They were bolt assemblies. You can literally watch the bolts unzip as they came down, IMO.

To Fitzy’s point about the bolts on the 747! That’s a thermal expansion! Depending on the material used, the size of the hole & the actual design of the bolt, they could have easily achieved a .010 expansion fit! That means even without the nut the bolts never coming out!

I think I explained this before, but if not here goes. When I designed & built the brake system for my Camaro I built everything. As such I went back to the old timers! The rotors were built as a three piece unit, the disc, the bonnet & the plate that Carrie’s the wheel studs. I put a .050 shrink fit on the bonnet from the disc. Than a .040 expansion fit of the bonnet to the wheel stud plate. When done I machined the whole assembly as one piece! No welds! I knew I could drive it this way, but in the end I couldn’t risk my family’s well being so I did weld them after the fact.

54E37009-3EED-4AF8-BC09-17926541650E.jpeg

7672FF44-1B3B-49F2-BAA6-9C9510829534.jpeg

D8C0F218-D55A-4404-A804-B5ED2D1EE705.jpeg

9E888023-D813-48CB-8FBB-98FD4233298F.jpeg

6FC3134C-7FCD-40B8-8CE5-7494003A3640.jpeg

EEF78900-7A53-402D-ABCD-1FFBEA6D1B55.jpeg

Edited by Last Indian
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Tired of these Ads? Purchase Enhanced Membership today to remove them!
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.