4 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

see what happens when you let a kiwi have a thread on fp !!! 
fitzy , hold my beer while I use this big bottle of twink and fix each page of this thread 😜

Oh , and it’s day 2 of jet lag !! Not fun at all 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

If you stay intoxicated while jet lagged, you won't notice the difference and you have an excuse too! 

Cheers mate! 

Edited May 9, 20242 yr by Frosty

I wouldn't worry about tweaking your text to keep this crowd happy. You've only mildly offended one punter - not bad, really.

I am happy to be corrected, but the Eiffel Tower predates welding and so is held together by rivets, as was everything else, including steel hulled ships. What an onerous process that must have been. I THINK the rivets were heated very hot and then inserted into predrilled holes and the bloke on the inside would pound the shank until it sat flush against the steel thereby creating a tight weatherproof seal. George Jetson may have had aching "button pressing fingers," but imagine how you felt after 12 hours of using a sledge. Almost as tiring as reading through my posts.

15 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Yes I know last Indian , I was thinking the same thing ! Mr Eiffel built a tower for the world fair , the Chrysler building was for people to work in , big diff ! 
non the less , impressive to look at , and so glad they didn’t pull it down in the 20’s like they planned, that would have been a waste. 
last Indian , the one thing I enjoy about traveling is looking at how stuff has been built ! I dont care if it was built yesterday or 400 years ago, I have an appreciation for the men and woman who physically built them 🙏along with what they built them out of !!! 
I have seen a far share of stone in the last 3 weeks and that in its self is a hard product to build from ! 

I couldn’t agree more! Don’t get me wrong I think the Eiffel Tower is a very notable, as well as an important achievement in engineering. I believe most have seen me say before that the old timers were pretty damn smart! That goes back to the beginning of it all. Look at the pyramids! Stonehenge, which clearly is only a fragment of what it once was, The Great Wall of China. 
Did you know that there is a reference in the Bible that correlates the alignment of the great pyramids, Stonehenge & Tara! 

6 hours ago, Fitzy said:

I am happy to be corrected, but the Eiffel Tower predates welding and so is held together by rivets, as was everything else, including steel hulled ships. What an onerous process that must have been. I THINK the rivets were heated very hot and then inserted into predrilled holes and the bloke on the inside would pound the shank until it sat flush against the steel thereby creating a tight weatherproof seal. George Jetson may have had aching "button pressing fingers," but imagine how you felt after 12 hours of using a sledge. Almost as tiring as reading through my posts.

but i bet the workers where used to doing that back then Fitzy, and i am pretty sure they had beer back then... soooo !

5 hours ago, Last Indian said:

I couldn’t agree more! Don’t get me wrong I think the Eiffel Tower is a very notable, as well as an important achievement in engineering. I believe most have seen me say before that the old timers were pretty damn smart! That goes back to the beginning of it all. Look at the pyramids! Stonehenge, which clearly is only a fragment of what it once was, The Great Wall of China. 
Did you know that there is a reference in the Bible that correlates the alignment of the great pyramids, Stonehenge & Tara! 

last indian,  i do have a real aprecation for  the engineering that went into these things, like fitzy said, the Eiffel tower and all its rivets , not a single weld.... they must have had to hoist every hunk of steel up and drill holes by hand,,,, i am picturing a egg beater drill !! then up in the air they must have been heating up rivits to bash the shit out of ...... times twenty five million  !!

imagine how many broken drill bits they must of had !!!

let a lone how many of those hot rivets they must have dropped !!! 

hence i have a big appreciation for what they had to do to build it, i am so pleased we have milwaukee m18 these days !!! 

and mig/tig welders 

Some spice cake, jet lag and a few pints of lager and you’ll be ready to do the Time Warp Song and dance!! 😀

Edited May 10, 20242 yr by Frosty

20 hours ago, Fitzy said:

I wouldn't worry about tweaking your text to keep this crowd happy. You've only mildly offended one punter - not bad, really.

I am happy to be corrected, but the Eiffel Tower predates welding and so is held together by rivets, as was everything else, including steel hulled ships. What an onerous process that must have been. I THINK the rivets were heated very hot and then inserted into predrilled holes and the bloke on the inside would pound the shank until it sat flush against the steel thereby creating a tight weatherproof seal. George Jetson may have had aching "button pressing fingers," but imagine how you felt after 12 hours of using a sledge. Almost as tiring as reading through my posts.

Must be true as i seen that on the simpsons..LOL

18 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

last indian,  i do have a real aprecation for  the engineering that went into these things, like fitzy said, the Eiffel tower and all its rivets , not a single weld.... they must have had to hoist every hunk of steel up and drill holes by hand,,,, i am picturing a egg beater drill !! then up in the air they must have been heating up rivits to bash the shit out of ...... times twenty five million  !!

imagine how many broken drill bits they must of had !!!

let a lone how many of those hot rivets they must have dropped !!! 

hence i have a big appreciation for what they had to do to build it, i am so pleased we have milwaukee m18 these days !!! 

and mig/tig welders 

Once again a lost art! And of course my statement about the old timers! Do you know why they used rivets? And while I doubt it would have made little difference, if the twin towers had used rivets is just possible that there might have been more time to get out! But we’ll never know!

Titanic was also rivetted together as were all steam locomotive boilers. Pressurised steam is really hard to contain but rivets did the job and those boilers were testament to excellent craftmanship.

I saw something once on how they attach jet engines to 747s (or something else?) Each engine is attached by only 4 bolts which are delivered in liquid nitrogen and the assemblers have to get it right as they only get one chance to retrieve the bolt and get it in the hole before the ambient temp makes it expand. They're made of some super duper material that is guaranteed not to fail.

Similarly, I saw something where Peterbilt truck cabin sections are glued together rather than welded or bolted. Once set, the adhesive is so strong that if you force the sections apart, the metal will tear and the glue will NOT give in.

On 5/11/2024 at 11:47 AM, Last Indian said:

Once again a lost art! And of course my statement about the old timers! Do you know why they used rivets? And while I doubt it would have made little difference, if the twin towers had used rivets is just possible that there might have been more time to get out! But we’ll never know!

No. Don’t ! 
is it because they can expand and contract like the steel they are holding ?

15 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Titanic was also rivetted together as were all steam locomotive boilers. Pressurised steam is really hard to contain but rivets did the job and those boilers were testament to excellent craftmanship.

I saw something once on how they attach jet engines to 747s (or something else?) Each engine is attached by only 4 bolts which are delivered in liquid nitrogen and the assemblers have to get it right as they only get one chance to retrieve the bolt and get it in the hole before the ambient temp makes it expand. They're made of some super duper material that is guaranteed not to fail.

Similarly, I saw something where Peterbilt truck cabin sections are glued together rather than welded or bolted. Once set, the adhesive is so strong that if you force the sections apart, the metal will tear and the glue will NOT give in.

 

14 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

No. Don’t ! 
is it because they can expand and contract like the steel they are holding ?

Fitzy’s on to it! Bolts only clamp & beyond that, nothing else. All critically engineered applications use to be riveted. Today, that mentality has diminished. Some applications have given way to welding & rightfully so, but those applications require certified welders that have to pass a specific welding test once a year. It requires very specific material with very specific chamfer angle cuts. The welds are inspected for penetration & than the sample is crushed. A break in the welds on being crushed is a fail. There must be 4 samples provide & all must pass to be certified. 

In theory only one bolt holds the rest are in a resting state & provide alignment. This is how bolts work the tightest bolt holds incrementally speaking. Depending on the size bolt the style head & the material being clamped the tightest bolt over time stretches or the material compresses. This allows the next tightest bolt to take over. This process continues on & on, all very subtly, but nonetheless less this is what occurs. This is what necessitated the reason for torqued bolts & torque patterns, & than advanced to today’s process of torque patterns with torque loads followed by a finial angle degree. This is as accurate as you can get when coupled with bolts that are made to stretch with spring tension. 

Yet this still leaves you with nothing but a clamping force! For components that have to be assembled & disassembled that’s understandable & acceptable.

Rivets are different, remember the old timers! Rivets don’t clamp! Rivet holes are fairly precise & there is a actual process followed to rivet materials together, but I won’t go into that. A rivet when it is bucked  expands in the rivet hole, swells. This expansion is so great it can only be removed by cutting off the swelled end of the rivet, then drilling a hole large enough through the center of the rivet that when enough pressure is applied to the end of the rivet the side wall structure will collapse & the rivet will come out. Because of this design each rivet holds equally & in all applications this design can sacrifice more than half of the rivets & still carry the load of the design. To this day you will not find an aircraft that is assembled with anything but rivets! 

All steel structure buildings, bridges & the like were once assembled with rivets only! Today they use bolts! Very large bolts! Yet the same principles that I laid out still apply. This is why I said what I said about the Twin Towers! They were bolt assemblies. You can literally watch the bolts unzip as they came down, IMO.

To Fitzy’s point about the bolts on the 747! That’s a thermal expansion! Depending on the material used, the size of the hole & the actual design of the bolt, they could have easily achieved a .010 expansion fit! That means even without the nut the bolts never coming out!

I think I explained this before, but if not here goes. When I designed & built the brake system for my Camaro I built everything. As such I went back to the old timers! The rotors were built as a three piece unit, the disc, the bonnet & the plate that Carrie’s the wheel studs. I put a .050 shrink fit on the bonnet from the disc. Than a .040 expansion fit of the bonnet to the wheel stud plate. When done I machined the whole assembly as one piece! No welds! I knew I could drive it this way, but in the end I couldn’t risk my family’s well being so I did weld them after the fact.

Edited May 12, 20242 yr by Last Indian

Nice looking Corsair.

BAAAA BAAAA BAAAA.  Black Sheep.....Atta boy Pappy!

12 hours ago, Frosty said:

Nice looking Corsair.

 

10 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

BAAAA BAAAA BAAAA.  Black Sheep.....Atta boy Pappy!

I know We talked about this before. This was my father in law’s Corsair from the Cleveland Air Race! He & Cook Cleland owned 4 of them. The two most famous were #94 & #74. He & Cook we’re both famous WWII pilots. Dick more so than Cook. Dick was considered on of the most proficient pilots of WWII. I could tell more, but this is about #74, which is a sad story!  
#74 was acquired by The Crawford Aviation Museum. It was to be rebuilt & be displayed as there were only two Super Corsairs left! These were Super Corsairs, not the BAAA Black Sheep kind. Anyway the museum had contracted Bob Odegaard, who knew my father in law, to rebuild 74, but they had a budget problem after they purchased 74, so they nixed the rebuild. Odegaard said he would buy the plane & did. So he undertook the ground up build. He did a wonderful job perfect. I saw the plane more than once, but unfortunately Dick did not get to see its completion. 
Now the Super Corsair were a monster to fly! Most of the Super Corsairs were destroyed & never flew, but of the ones that did fly the death rate of the pilots was the highest of any WWII military plane. Sadly upon completion of #74 within one month  on test flights Bob Odegaard fly #74 into the ground! It was devastating loss of a good man. The only Super Corsair that remains is #57 which Cook & Dick owned as well. And Bob Odegaard had rebuilt as well & still owned when he died. Google it & you can see it fly from air show footage.

the picture below was taken about a week before the crash. This was the last time two Super Corsairs would ever fly together again.

Edited May 14, 20242 yr by Last Indian

3 more days............ and guess what !!!!

National Free Beer Day?

National Fish n Chips Day?

Support Your Local Chippie?

NZ will convert to left hand drive and abandon the metric system?

Peter Jackson films another damn JRR Tolkien movie series in NZ?

The Māori are taking back the country after watching Moana 2?

There is finally as many people in NZ as there is sheep?

The longest town name in the world decides to abbreviate to save money on signage and stationary?

I give up Mister Bones! What happens in 3 days?

Edited July 10, 2025Jul 10 by Frosty

dooh ! you got it on your first guess !!

national free beer day !!!

but did you know ....peter jackson is behind bringing back the moa ????

its called de-extinction !!!

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/566386/sir-peter-jackson-backs-project-to-de-extinct-moa-experts-cast-doubt

If thay can bring back animals ... what about people !!! who would you want back ??????????

I would want to bring back my dad, and make sure he gets his heart sorted

Edited July 10, 2025Jul 10 by 64 kiwi boni

one more sleep.....

Where’s kiwi going ?????

Here’s your first clue guys 🍻

Off to see the Fitz?

Going to Oz to lounge around Fitzy’s place, and drink his free beer? There’s Fosters in the esky honey! Sweet !!!

Let us know how he is doing at Forever Prius!

Hopefully you’ll get something better than a Prius as a rental!

We want a beer by beer account of your misadventures together in Oz!

Edited July 13, 2025Jul 13 by Frosty

Nope ! Frosty !!!

And nope Ringo ….

I did wave to fitzy a few hours ago as I flew over his home

JustA bout to land for a 2 hour pit stop ……

Gotta be Honolulu!

1 hour ago, Last Indian said:

Gotta be Honolulu!

By going west? You should be flying east for Honolulu. Ditto tor Vancouver.

I would guess the UK, western Europe or Africa based on the flight path.

Don’t tell me you are going back to NY???