Fitzy's GP is back!

[64 kiwi boni]

7 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Mate, we'll crack a coupla beers then simply whack that baby back together. What could go wrong? Don't worry about machining, crack testing or honing it. We'll just fill the block with goodies then fry the tyres until the Boss calls us back in and gives you a smack for being naughty...which you probably enjoy.

wtf!! are you my twin bother ????? hahhahaha

Edited August 28, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[Fitzy]

Can anyone throw me a bone with this one? Take a look at the pics. I carefully examined the head to ensure that the coolant holes were indeed coolant holes. I then placed the old head gasket on it to ensure that IT was the correct gasket, which it was - all the holes lined up. I then positioned the gasket on the block and stood there scratching my head wondering why so many coolant holes were filled. So I did some gentle exploratory drilling and it was like I was drilling into metal, complete with shiny metal swarf coming out of the hole. Anyway, I persevered with one and after a few minutes of drilling the drill broke through whatever that crap is and exposed the water jacket. Now, what on earth is going on? That rock hard compound almost seems like what I imagine engine block filler would look like. Is that possible? But, it doesn't extend far enough beyond the surface to be filler. I am perplexed. Anyway, tomorrow I'm going to carefully measure the corresponding head coolant holes and drill the block to match. Like I said - look after your cooling system and you'll avoid the heartache that the previous owner of my car must have experienced before they gave up and just parked it.

I also chiselled the water pump/timing cover dividers away from the housing and will have to replace them. The last job was panel beating the oil pan into a respectable shape, so that it doesn't look like it landed on an aircraft carrier at 200mph.

I'm now thinking of just finding a 455 and bolting it in and driving off into the sunset. Good idea? Extra cubes, more modern design, should hook up to my TH400 no probs.

[JUSTA6]

Only bone I can toss atcha is the damn radiator leak seal???  Your dumping pulverized metal into your system, plugs any hole it finds and melts together when the temp is up.  Never seen anything like that in the heads. You would have to use a shit-ton of that stuff. Previous owners......if the block could talk.

[Fitzy]

Yeah, I thought it might be the effects of a stop leak solution, too. I found similar 'melted metal' on the water pump vanes. I still can't believe I had to drill through what appeared to be proper (although quite soft) metal.

[Fitzy]

So, why did I have a bent pushrod and one awry rocker arm? Apparently bad lifters can cause enough drama to allow the rocker to shift and a binding valve spring can cause a pushrod to bend. This is all beyond me: I now have to make the decision to go balls out and send the engine off to get rebuilt, or blunder through myself, or go source a 455 and bolt that baby in.

[JUSTA6]

6 hours ago, Fitzy said:

So, why did I have a bent pushrod and one awry rocker arm? Apparently bad lifters can cause enough drama to allow the rocker to shift and a binding valve spring can cause a pushrod to bend. This is all beyond me: I now have to make the decision to go balls out and send the engine off to get rebuilt, or blunder through myself, or go source a 455 and bolt that baby in.

Most valvetrain probs are from over reving.  Like Roadkill burnouts.  The rocker outta shape has been doing that for awhile.  Got me wondering too.

[Fitzy]

The time has come for me to stop laying in bed at 3am wondering how to approach it. With the coolant issue and now the valvetrain issue, who knows what else might be wrong with it? I think it needs to go to the professionals and they can machine & check everything and I can do the final assembly, which will be dramatic enough.

The time has come for me to stop laying in bed at 3am wondering how to approach it. With the coolant issue and now the valvetrain issue, who knows what else might be wrong with it? I think it needs to go to the professionals and they can machine & check everything and I can do the final assembly, which will be dramatic enough.

[64 kiwi boni]

good call mate, thats JustA what i would do. 

[Fitzy]

This has got me worried. What is going on? This is an image from Butler advertising one of their short block kits. Have a look at the 'blocked off' coolant passages. Don't tell me that's how it's supposed to be? The head gaskets & heads have corresponding holes though.

[Fitzy]

I finally found some references & discussion re blocked coolant passages. It seems this is a factory mod and directs more cooling water to the back of the engine, but it wasn't always this way. The higher performance 421s had all those holes operational. There is much talk about whether it was a cost cutting exercise or if it helped to maintain structural integrity around that part of the block. Anyway - too late! I drilled them all out. Most of the US experiences extreme cold and since I live in the tropics, I reckon the more coolant fhat flows around my block, the better. We will see.

[64 kiwi boni]

1 hour ago, Fitzy said:

I finally found some references & discussion re blocked coolant passages. It seems this is a factory mod and directs more cooling water to the back of the engine, but it wasn't always this way. The higher performance 421s had all those holes operational. There is much talk about whether it was a cost cutting exercise or if it helped to maintain structural integrity around that part of the block. Anyway - too late! I drilled them all out. Most of the US experiences extreme cold and since I live in the tropics, I reckon the more coolant fhat flows around my block, the better. We will see.

very good point there Fitzy, i wouldnt worry about extra coolant passages, you can control flow through the block with different thermostats, 

i personally would have done justA what you have done if the heads have passages too

[Fitzy]

Yeah, what a weird one. You go through life and eventually as you get older you think you've seen everything and then something like this jumps out at you. Now I'm going to start worrying about what the machinist is going to tell me once they start inspecting the block & heads. Maybe I'll luck out and it'll be one of the legendary Nascar engines that went missing 55 years ago and it's rated at 800hp, but no, more than likely it'll be the Church Minister Special with 7 to 1 compression and puts out 120hp, but only on Sundays.

[64 kiwi boni]

38 minutes ago, Fitzy said:

Yeah, what a weird one. You go through life and eventually as you get older you think you've seen everything and then something like this jumps out at you. Now I'm going to start worrying about what the machinist is going to tell me once they start inspecting the block & heads. Maybe I'll luck out and it'll be one of the legendary Nascar engines that went missing 55 years ago and it's rated at 800hp, but no, more than likely it'll be the Church Minister Special with 7 to 1 compression and puts out 120hp, but only on Sundays.

Haha not a chance with those little chambers I saw in those heads and your flat top pistons !! 

What you don’t want to hear is that they magnaflux  the block and find cracks !

[JUSTA6]

14 hours ago, Fitzy said:

The time has come for me to stop laying in bed at 3am wondering how to approach it. With the coolant issue and now the valvetrain issue, who knows what else might be wrong with it? I think it needs to go to the professionals and they can machine & check everything and I can do the final assembly, which will be dramatic enough.

The time has come for me to stop laying in bed at 3am wondering how to approach it. With the coolant issue and now the valvetrain issue, who knows what else might be wrong with it? I think it needs to go to the professionals and they can machine & check everything and I can do the final assembly, which will be dramatic enough.

WOW  Your repeating yourself.....This is bad.😟

[Frosty]

On 8/28/2021 at 5:55 PM, Fitzy said:

Yeah, I thought it might be the effects of a stop leak solution, too. I found similar 'melted metal' on the water pump vanes. I still can't believe I had to drill through what appeared to be proper (although quite soft) metal.

Fitzy - the melted metal you found on the water pump vanes might be left over from the factory. Pontiac and other GM divisions use to put 2-3 semi-metallic sealing tabs in the radiators to help seal the cooling system. In fact, the late Pontiac historian John Sawruk use to recommend putting them back in if you rebuilt the motor or re-did the cooling system. You can still buy sealing tabs from AC Delco.

[Fitzy]

I had no idea these things even existed. I think I'll pass on this one, Frosty. I've seen enough cooling system melted metal to last me forever. I'd like to think that all the various gaskets & seals will do what they're supposed to do.

Here's some trivia for you: Bugatti engines (back in the 20s) were built without any gaskets because Ettore Bugatti insisted on exact machining. I was lucky enough to visit the Schlumpf Collection in Mulhouse, France a few years ago and it remains one of the automotive highlights of my life. One of the 7 Bugatti Royales that were ever made is in there, amongst other treasures. That car, in particular, is literally priceless.

Yes JustA, I do a lot of thinking at 3am. I don't recommend it.

[Frosty]

3 hours ago, Fitzy said:

I had no idea these things even existed. I think I'll pass on this one, Frosty. I've seen enough cooling system melted metal to last me forever. I'd like to think that all the various gaskets & seals will do what they're supposed to do.

Here's some trivia for you: Bugatti engines (back in the 20s) were built without any gaskets because Ettore Bugatti insisted on exact machining. I was lucky enough to visit the Schlumpf Collection in Mulhouse, France a few years ago and it remains one of the automotive highlights of my life. One of the 7 Bugatti Royales that were ever made is in there, amongst other treasures. That car, in particular, is literally priceless.

Yes JustA, I do a lot of thinking at 3am. I don't recommend it.

No worries mate. I understand! 

 A show called Restoration Garage (Guild Garage in Canada) feature the collection last season. I was impressed.

[64 kiwi boni]

3 hours ago, Frosty said:

No worries mate. I understand! 

 A show called Restoration Garage (Guild Garage in Canada) feature the collection last season. I was impressed.

yes i saw that collection too!! very impressive was on discovery( turbo channel)  a while back ... Restoration Garage, man he is a perfectionist!!

[Fitzy]

Hey, do I need to replace my harmonic balancer if for no other reason than to guarantee a leak free front seal? The shaft looks only very slightly worn but obviously I don't want a leaking front seal.

[JUSTA6]

36 minutes ago, Fitzy said:

Hey, do I need to replace my harmonic balancer if for no other reason than to guarantee a leak free front seal? The shaft looks only very slightly worn but obviously I don't want a leaking front seal.

NO     The new seal will be JUSTA fine.  That would be a huge added expense to replace the balancer.

[Fitzy]

Thanks JustA - that's the answer I was hoping for. The balancer's structural integrity looks sound. I asked the question because in the old days with our Holden inline 6's, it was imperative to replace the balancer and front seal together to prevent a leak.

In saying all this, I did see that there's such a thing as a repair sleeve for an old balancer shaft. I think if the balancer was that worn, you'd just replace it. There are stories of them flying apart and destroying parts of the engine or radiator, and excessive out of balancing can cause havoc with the crankshaft. This is all new to me.

[Frosty]

I agree with Justa. No need to replace the balancer. I've reused the balancer on Lucy. When the original 455 let go back in 2004, I had to get a new block along with a new oil pan. However, my engine builder re-used nearly everything else he could from the old motor, including the balancer.

[JUSTA6]

10 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Thanks JustA - that's the answer I was hoping for. The balancer's structural integrity looks sound. I asked the question because in the old days with our Holden inline 6's, it was imperative to replace the balancer and front seal together to prevent a leak.

In saying all this, I did see that there's such a thing as a repair sleeve for an old balancer shaft. I think if the balancer was that worn, you'd just replace it. There are stories of them flying apart and destroying parts of the engine or radiator, and excessive out of balancing can cause havoc with the crankshaft. This is all new to me.

Make sure you lube it up well for the initial fireup of the renewed beast.

[Fitzy]

Mate-I'll be practically bathing in assembly lube when all the new shiny bits go back in.

If there's one life lesson I've learnt, it's that to get it in there where it's a tight fit, you gotta use lube. 

[Fitzy]

Can I ask - does anyone have any cam degreeing experience?

Is this something I need to do for my essentially stock 389?