2 hours ago, Wrongway said:

Well, I didn't end up using Butler guys. Sorry. I did talk to them before dropping my heads off to the machine shop here though I hope I don't regret that decision. After talking to Butler and explaining everything that happened with the car and that the engine and heads were rebuilt already and I had bent and broke valves we decided that having the local shop do an inspection would hurt and any work that needed to be done would be done by butler. I was told to call them and let them no what the inspection showed and they would give me a quote and I could either drop them off or they would help me arrange shipping to them. I was told turn around time would be 3- 4 months. The shop here said the only issues he seen was a couple of bent intake valves. Said he checked all the exhaust valves and they were a straight. Should be, they were brand new, I just didn't know to lap them. So he put new seals on, the butler seals that BEAR recommended, lapped the valves and done. I just really hope that was the right decision. 

Hope it works out for ya.  Is this the guy without the proper tools?

Nooooooo way JUSTA! This was the shop that i had the appointment with that was a couple hours way. Turn's out that while asking around about shops that i know of a couple of the local guys who's heads he's done. He had a bunch of blocks and heads in his shop so i took that as a good sign and haven't heard anything bad yet. Guess from what the old timers said he's been in the business for over 20 years. 

UPDATE: So I got ready to start reassembly last week and while cleaning the head bolts I found 2 of them that looked bad to me. I think this is what they mean by stretched? The bolts are ARP and were put in brand new right before we had the valve breaking issues. I reached out to ARP to ask about warranty and to no surprise they were not under warranty. I told the ARP guy exactly what happened and that I knew it was not their fault and I was only asking before ordering the 2 new ones. They actually still sent me 2 brand new ones no charge and no shipping. That was a surprise. So huge shout out to ARP for their customer service! Bolts arrived yesterday and I installed the heads last night and let them sit until today. (Had an old timer tell me years ago to do that with head bolts to let them destress. Is that true? Does it really matter?) Today I installed the lifters, pushrods, rockers and set the valve lash. I WAS going to finish putting the rest of the engine back together and decided to stop and check in with y'all. Just wanted to make sure there isn't something else to check or any advice from y'all before I continue? And yes I know it needs new paint lol but I'm waiting to make sure she's right this time.

13 minutes ago, Wrongway said:

UPDATE: So I got ready to start reassembly last week and while cleaning the head bolts I found 2 of them that looked bad to me. I think this is what they mean by stretched? The bolts are ARP and were put in brand new right before we had the valve breaking issues. I reached out to ARP to ask about warranty and to no surprise they were not under warranty. I told the ARP guy exactly what happened and that I knew it was not their fault and I was only asking before ordering the 2 new ones. They actually still sent me 2 brand new ones no charge and no shipping. That was a surprise. So huge shout out to ARP for their customer service! Bolts arrived yesterday and I installed the heads last night and let them sit until today. (Had an old timer tell me years ago to do that with head bolts to let them destress. Is that true? Does it really matter?) Today I installed the lifters, pushrods, rockers and set the valve lash. I WAS going to finish putting the rest of the engine back together and decided to stop and check in with y'all. Just wanted to make sure there isn't something else to check or any advice from y'all before I continue? And yes I know it needs new paint lol but I'm waiting to make sure she's right this time.

Good catch on the bolts.  That's why ARP is such a trusted name in the automotive world. 

2 hours ago, Wrongway said:

UPDATE: So I got ready to start reassembly last week and while cleaning the head bolts I found 2 of them that looked bad to me. I think this is what they mean by stretched? The bolts are ARP and were put in brand new right before we had the valve breaking issues. I reached out to ARP to ask about warranty and to no surprise they were not under warranty. I told the ARP guy exactly what happened and that I knew it was not their fault and I was only asking before ordering the 2 new ones. They actually still sent me 2 brand new ones no charge and no shipping. That was a surprise. So huge shout out to ARP for their customer service! Bolts arrived yesterday and I installed the heads last night and let them sit until today. (Had an old timer tell me years ago to do that with head bolts to let them destress. Is that true? Does it really matter?) Today I installed the lifters, pushrods, rockers and set the valve lash. I WAS going to finish putting the rest of the engine back together and decided to stop and check in with y'all. Just wanted to make sure there isn't something else to check or any advice from y'all before I continue? And yes I know it needs new paint lol but I'm waiting to make sure she's right this time.

No that’s not a stretch bolt! That’s a thread problem! Something somewhere is shaving the thread! A stretched bolt is detected by measuring the bolt length.

1 hour ago, Last Indian said:

No that’s not a stretch bolt! That’s a thread problem! Something somewhere is shaving the thread! A stretched bolt is detected by measuring the bolt length.

I've been thinkin about that too while mowing the lawn. How do ya screw up the top half of the bolt?? Looks cross threaded.  Thinkin I found the problem with my middle carb and flows along the same line as Wrongways bolt.

But if it was cross threaded wouldn't the whole bolt be messed up? I did clean out all of the bolt holes and thread the bolts in to make sure there were no issues. The ARP guy said that when a bolt is messed up at the top its normally from over tightening. He did not see the pic and I did tighten to ARP specs. 

11 hours ago, Wrongway said:

But if it was cross threaded wouldn't the whole bolt be messed up? I did clean out all of the bolt holes and thread the bolts in to make sure there were no issues. The ARP guy said that when a bolt is messed up at the top its normally from over tightening. He did not see the pic and I did tighten to ARP specs. 

I have no answer for ya.  Only way I could see that happening would be streach from overtighten, but that usually happens on the non threaded part. 

16 hours ago, Wrongway said:

But if it was cross threaded wouldn't the whole bolt be messed up? I did clean out all of the bolt holes and thread the bolts in to make sure there were no issues. The ARP guy said that when a bolt is messed up at the top its normally from over tightening. He did not see the pic and I did tighten to ARP specs. 

No it’s not cross threaded! The threads are actually sheared, flattened or a form of galling! Several thing can cause this. When rebuilding or just replacing certain components of an engine it needs to be cleaned, thread chased and deburred very well. Anything and I mean anything can mess up threads! When you chase threads you blow out the holes really well, but you should use a chamfering tool at the top of the thread first then chase the thread. Likewise all the clearance holes need cleaned of carbon so running a corresponding drill through then will do wonders, but again chamfering the top and bottom of any clearance holes that you can first Is very beneficial. 
Any small piece of metal chip or hard carbon or any thread or clearance hole that has a buggered finish can step up a shearing scenario for threads. I have seen head gaskets shift enough on removal of bolts to get caught and gall or shear threads.

Wrongway you’ve got a lot of time and money tied up in this! I know it’s a pain, but I won’t advise going back if you need to and dotting every I and crossing every T.

My two cents worth!

Edited September 12, 20205 yr by Last Indian

Thanks Indian, I did chase the threads then blew the holes out with air compressor. After taking the picture of the bolt I ended up using a .45 caliber brass cleaning brush on my drill with break cleaner to dissolve any carbon I couldn't see and the with the engine on its side (rotated engine stand) flushed each hole out with break cleaner (little hose thing on can) then blow dried with air compressor. That should be good enough right??

13 hours ago, Wrongway said:

Thanks Indian, I did chase the threads then blew the holes out with air compressor. After taking the picture of the bolt I ended up using a .45 caliber brass cleaning brush on my drill with break cleaner to dissolve any carbon I couldn't see and the with the engine on its side (rotated engine stand) flushed each hole out with break cleaner (little hose thing on can) then blow dried with air compressor. That should be good enough right??

Nope! That real is the best you can do! JustA make sure visually that the look good! Also look at each clearance holes edges, both ends, these are basically the heads! Sometimes these holes will get a rolled edge that juts out into the hole! This actually reduces the hole size, this is one of the burrs I mentioned. This is the reason to use a chamfering tool to give a slight chamfer to remove it. You can also use a deburring tool.

these are chamfering tools. You can use them in a drill motor.

These are deburring tools. 

Edited September 13, 20205 yr by Last Indian

Ok thanks bro

Hay wrongway! how is the motor build coming ???

3 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Hay wrongway! how is the motor build coming ???

Put your mask N gloves on when typing, JUSTA in case.  He's been feelin a bit under the weather.

Edited September 19, 20205 yr by JUSTA6

Ok so this is probably a dumb question but.... The washer (not sure what its called) that goes behind the big bolt holding the harmonic balancer to crank has walked a way. Can I use another washer or drill out a thick fender washer and use it or do I need to order a new one from Ames or somebody else and wait a week to finish installing everything else so I can start the engine?

20 minutes ago, Wrongway said:

Ok so this is probably a dumb question but.... The washer (not sure what its called) that goes behind the big bolt holding the harmonic balancer to crank has walked a way. Can I use another washer or drill out a thick fender washer and use it or do I need to order a new one from Ames or somebody else and wait a week to finish installing everything else so I can start the engine?

Needs to be a thick washer, but you could pick one up at the hardware.  Justa take the bolt with ya.  I would.

Sorry Kiwi, didn't see your message bro. I've got the engine in the car and putting on the final pieces bro. Cant wait till I can start it lol.

Ok awesome bro. I was hoping I could but I just wasn't sure with what that bolt torques to. Thanks

18 hours ago, Wrongway said:

Ok so this is probably a dumb question but.... The washer (not sure what its called) that goes behind the big bolt holding the harmonic balancer to crank has walked a way. Can I use another washer or drill out a thick fender washer and use it or do I need to order a new one from Ames or somebody else and wait a week to finish installing everything else so I can start the engine?

Any salvage yards nearby that might have one?  That bolt and washer have to absorb a lot of stress. There's a reason they're as big as they are and get torqued to 160 lb. ft.   You've come a long way with this and have had to redo a lot to get here. It'd be a real shame to create another problem for yourself now just because you're impatient.  A "plain old washer" might work, but if that were true then why did Pontiac engineers create that special one just for that one bolt? 

I know you're in a hurry, but don't you want this to be the last time you have to tear into it for awhile? 

Bear

Yeah damn it, your right again Bear. That would be called the harmonic balancer washer correct? 

Ok, so Franks is on vacation according to eBay(lol) and Ames had it for $5.00. Its ordered 

Good man! Bear is dead on, that washer clamps on a shoulder in the balancer number one! Secondly that washer is tempered! It’s not hard like a file, but it’s tempered so it doesn’t bend, you know goes concaved, when it gets torqued in loading the balancer which carries the driven pulley! 

Gotcha! I had picked up a 1/8th thick grade 8 yesterday. So yall caught me JUSTA in time lol. But it is ordered. I'll let you know when i get it in and installed. Thanks guys.

Ok, got that harmonic balancer washer in yesterday. I don't think the motor actually had to correct washer on it. That 1/8" thick washer i picked up at 1st looked almost exactly like it. The new one from AMES is at the very least a 1/4" thick. 

So I'm going to try starting up the engine today or tomorrow. Shooting for today but not sure it'll happen. I know we talked about the excessive timing I had set to keep the engine running. Any suggestions on timing that I should be shooting for? 

So I decided to do a compression test today before actually starting the engine. Here's the numbers. 1st pic is before head work 2nd pic was new numbers from today. Obviously you'll see my concern. I also included a video, I'm hearing a noise. Doesn't sound normal. The sound sounds as if its coming from the back of the engine at the bottom. Converter/flywheel area. It wasn't doing this before I pulled the engine last time.

Noise.MOV

Edited September 29, 20205 yr by Wrongway