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onetrick56's 1964 Grand Prix

2020 September
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So my machine shop highly recommended Brad Penn/Penngrade oil. This is the first time I’ve used it. I do not have a problem spending the extra money on good oil. I just thought this would make for a nice topic. I’m sure there are a lot of opinions on this. Stay healthy and let’s hear the stories guys!!!

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Lookin back, it's amazing how brand Loyal we were on everything. (and many of us still are) The win on Sunday = sales on Monday generation.  From the Big 3 car manufacturers to every sticker/sponsor o

I could do that. I could even give a basic explanation as to how color can be used effectively to know what’s going on in your engines oil as well as your automatic transmissions oil.

One last thing on the subject, I know the gentleman from my days of dealing with Joe Gibbs Racing, yes NASCAR! You can read through the entire article if you wish, but you can if you wish just scroll

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I've always liked the Castrol 20w-50.

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Valvoline 10-30 in all my street cars...Have always had good luck with it....No oil related issues...Change it every 3000 miles.... Use AC oil filters on all 4 of my GM cars...Motorcraft filters on my Ford vehicles....(93 F-150...97 towncar...05 Ford 500) used a Wix filter last time on my Honda Civic...All with valvoline oil...Use Castrol 20-40 semi synthetic in my 1100 V-Star motorcycle...

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4 hours ago, Last Indian said:

 

Yes, folks all have their own opinions on what oil to use, what’s best and so on, but at the end of the day most folks don’t really have the knowledge about what makes a good oil or why! That would include your machine shop! As I doubt any of them are chemist or know what the technical numbers mean! So I will try to explain again just from a purely factual point. 

Most of the expense in buying an oil is in the additive package, which for the most part really makes or breaks an oil. Than would come the grade of the crude they use, which has its own impact. Than the blending of the two together can really make or break the final product. Obviously the best oils use top tier crude as well as top tier additives, but different companies tailor their additives packages and this is what sets the best apart. So that might seem simple, but there is one more element, the consumer! He as much as the additive package makes or breaks the final results of the oil! 

An example is if I asked what is the most important element to an engine oil what would most people say? Most of the time, viscosity! That would be wrong! While viscosity is very important it has been documented that an engine can run on 0 viscosity! No I’m not promoting that. I’m just saying it’s not #1. TBN is the number one element in an oil, period! Without the proper TBN your engine would have a very short life. Yet if you run a lower TBN number oil and understand when to change it, that’s acceptable.

So while the PennGrade oil has good specs relatively speaking the ZDDP numbers are quite concerning 1500ppm is to much! Especially when you use it over and over! To much ZDDP cause corrosive wear in all the places you are trying to protect. Anything above 850ppm starts to get iffy. This also why this oil is not approved by the API! 
Where as JustA is using Castrol, this has a lower TBN than the PennGrade but uses sulphated ash as the wear additive, which is actually a better, more controllable additive for this process. It’s also harder to over additize this way and Castrol is using it in the proper dosage. I’m also sure JustA changes his oil at the proper time before TBN vs TAN crossover.

There is a lot more than this to an oil. This just touches on a very small element of an oils makeup and function. Who knew!
 

Last Indian, your going to have to explain what is the TBN number  🙄

Edited by 64 kiwi boni
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56 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Last Indian, your going to have to explain what is the TBN number  🙄

I'm with ya kiwi boni,  don't know the TBN from the TAN.  Justa always been a fan of Castrol.  The Sunbird and GTO don't see 500 mi a year.  I know oil breaks down with age, so usually change the oil every other year on the Hotrods,  3 to 3500 on the daily drivers.  GM gets AC only filters and the trucks get Motorcraft. 

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I forget the exact name, but it’s the ‘Purple’ brand...

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I've been a Mobil 1 (non-extended life) fan for many years. Run the proper weight of it in literally everything I have that has a four-stroke engine (including lawn mowers & snow blowers).

I've gotten flack for it but it doesn't stop me - I still change the oil every 3,000 to 4,000 miles (the type of driving will determine if it's 3k or 4k). Then, roughly every six months, I send a sample of the oil for analysis to Black Stone labs (http://blackstone-labs.com). Below is an excerpt of the report they send back (note that, if I request it, a TBN test - the measurement @Last Indian mentioned above - will be run on the oil I send in)

 

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13 hours ago, 65gtotrips said:

I forget the exact name, but it’s the ‘Purple’ brand...

Royal Purple????

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Gees thank you Last Indian, i have certainly learnt something today 👍

 As i read  your explanation, i thought how can i monitor the tbn/tan ratio... then you answered it....colour of the oil.

thats very much what i look for, i like my engines to have clean looking oil, if its not i swap it out.

 And with most of my fleet they stay clean thanks to bugger all use !

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22 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

Royal Purple????

Yep...that’s it️ I’ve been on a (4) 12 hr work day bender, and my head was fuzzy and couldn’t remember it’s full name...so THANKS 👍 😎

Edited by 65gtotrips
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On 4/18/2020 at 1:07 PM, Last Indian said:

 

Yes, folks all have their own opinions on what oil to use, what’s best and so on, but at the end of the day most folks don’t really have the knowledge about what makes a good oil or why! That would include your machine shop! As I doubt any of them are chemist or know what the technical numbers mean! So I will try to explain again just from a purely factual point. 

Most of the expense in buying an oil is in the additive package, which for the most part really makes or breaks an oil. Than would come the grade of the crude they use, which has its own impact. Than the blending of the two together can really make or break the final product. Obviously the best oils use top tier crude as well as top tier additives, but different companies tailor their additives packages and this is what sets the best apart. So that might seem simple, but there is one more element, the consumer! He as much as the additive package makes or breaks the final results of the oil! 

An example is if I asked what is the most important element to an engine oil what would most people say? Most of the time, viscosity! That would be wrong! While viscosity is very important it has been documented that an engine can run on 0 viscosity! No I’m not promoting that. I’m just saying it’s not #1. TBN is the number one element in an oil, period! Without the proper TBN your engine would have a very short life. Yet if you run a lower TBN number oil and understand when to change it, that’s acceptable.

So while the PennGrade oil has good specs relatively speaking the ZDDP numbers are quite concerning 1500ppm is to much! Especially when you use it over and over! To much ZDDP cause corrosive wear in all the places you are trying to protect. Anything above 850ppm starts to get iffy. This also why this oil is not approved by the API! 
Where as JustA is using Castrol, this has a lower TBN than the PennGrade but uses sulphated ash as the wear additive, which is actually a better, more controllable additive for this process. It’s also harder to over additize this way and Castrol is using it in the proper dosage. I’m also sure JustA changes his oil at the proper time before TBN vs TAN crossover.

There is a lot more than this to an oil. This just touches on a very small element of an oils makeup and function. Who knew!
 

Man.. I bet you are the LIFE at parties!! JK .. great info!! I’ve seen my machine shop build engines that spend their time above 10,000 rpm think about that for just a moment. I absolutely appreciate your in put that’s why I started this post.. that being said please don’t try to put down someone’s intelligence when it comes to oils recommendations... I don’t drive a taxi!!! There are countless Doctors prescribing medicine that is NOT FDA approved.. Honestly I absolutely love tour input.. but because the don’t work on taxi cabs does not mean the donknow oil. Side note they also rebuild every engine the get ran at a very famous race track here in town.. so they absolutely see what happens to an engine after a years time of abuse taxi cabs wil NEVER see. That’s exactly why they recommend it. Again no hard feelings  I hope but when throw stones 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

 

 

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Let me guess - US131 Motorsports Park - the Fastest Track in Michigan?

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6 hours ago, Frosty said:

Let me guess - US131 Motorsports Park - the Fastest Track in Michigan?

Berlin

On 4/18/2020 at 1:07 PM, Last Indian said:

 

Yes, folks all have their own opinions on what oil to use, what’s best and so on, but at the end of the day most folks don’t really have the knowledge about what makes a good oil or why! That would include your machine shop!

This is what i meant

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Frosty said:

Let me guess - US131 Motorsports Park - the Fastest Track in Michigan?

Anybody get MAVTV?  They have a show called All Out Racing.  Must have spent the entire last year @ Lapeer.  They also pull people from the audience to compete in INSTANT GREEN.  Bet on who wins for cash.  Pretty cool show.  I've heard of Berlin, but have no idea where it's at.

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2 hours ago, Ponchoguy said:

Yes, folks all have their own opinions on what oil to use, what’s best and so on, but at the end of the day most folks don’t really have the knowledge about what makes a good oil or why! That would include your machine shop!

This is what i meant

Ok, well if that’s what you meant, than I mean what I said, the lack of their knowledge of how Zinc dithiophosphate actually works I would bet on! Very few people outside of the chemical industry know how this chemistry actually works! What they understand is engines internally tend not to fail when it’s used in high performance applications. So they don’t see many if any failures from mechanically wear in those engines they build and it’s used in. So basically it’s called CYA! If you can tell me what they specifically said as to how ZDDP works, chemically, well than I’ll say they understand it, but I doubt that will happen. What I recall I said was the PennGrade wasn’t bad by the oil specs, but the ZDDP was to much. Sorry, it still is for a non race car application!

I worked in the industry for way to long to not know most people don’t understand most chemical additives, especially boundary layer additives.

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54 minutes ago, indymanjoe said:

I use royal purple because of the scuff test i seen a couple years ago. Cant find the article right now. But i change the Lemans oil 2x's a yr while driving (more if racing)  then once for the winter. Wix filter as well. Great info as always Last Indian.

I went right to the underline part so i missed the test part LOL

And there ya go you posted the results i was referring too...for the money i like RP

What’s really interesting here Joe is the Joe Gibbs Racing oil! Look at the ppm of zinc (ZDDP) yet look at the psi number! This oil is one of the oils we worked on with him back in the. It has our additive package in it. This zinc level is so low you could easily run this for the street! No problem!

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