Fitzy's GP is back!

[Andy H]

On 4/9/2022 at 12:12 AM, Fitzy said:

Okay - a good day today. Picked up my drilled & tapped coolant sensor adapter, whacked it in and it works a treat. Now...as I'm chatting to the 70 year old bloke who did the work, I notice his workshop is full of old motorbikes. It turns out they are his! He informs me that he has all the equipment to do engine machining. I told him about my engine and we got onto the subject of PCV valves. He said he rebuilt an old 327 for someone and they complained that it was playing up. Upon tearing down the engine again, there was nothing wrong with it but someone noticed that the PCV valve was smaller than the original and the engine was not happy. Once replaced with the correct PCV, no more issues. He then fixed me with a steely glare and like an old wizard told me that the PCV valve and the entire crankcase ventilation system was vital for an engine to work properly. I walked out of there wondering how could he possibly have known that I fiddled with mine and although I have a functioning PCV valve, I blocked off the factory air intake because I wanted a clean looking engine bay. Upon returning home, I researched engine crankcase ventilation and became educated. I have just ordered an oil filler breather cap and a push in breather for the driver's side, so pretty soon will have plenty of fresh air getting into the engine as well as the PCV valve taking care of crankcase gases. Lesson learnt.

In the interim, I cobbled together a 'bush intake device' which consists of a piece of 3/8 fuel hose pressed into my freshly drilled blanking grommet with a piece of flymesh over the opening to exclude debris. Then I went for a drive to test the coolant sensor setup for leaks and to monitor all the gauges. Coolant is bang on at 180°. 13V at the voltmeter and oil pressure is between 20 psi at idle and about 40 or 50 on the highway when the engine is warmed up. Perfect.

The latest no hurry task is to straighten up the bodywork - an adventure that could take some time.

looking good, so as far as PVC it is needed apparently, looks like you got yours sorted out, i got a PVC valve from Ames so it should be the correct one, I'm looking at your intake and i see what you where talking about as far as the temp sensor, i have both those holes drilled in my intake but one is taken by the fitting for the heater hose, i could have put it in the back but wanted to keep it somewhat stock. looks like you are way ahead of me in your endeavors. as far as the oil pressure gauge it looks like you are using a mechanical gauge? I was hoping for mine that i could hook up the gauge in the back of the block next to the distributor, do you know if that actually is a port to the oil galley?

[Fitzy]

Yes, it's a good spot for oil pressure. Wrongway took his feed from that point and I probably should have done the same but was too lazy to pull the distributor out - I've spent quite enough time leaning into that massive engine bay fiddling with crap at the back of the engine! He also advised that I upgrade to copper tubing to the mechanical gauge rather than the supplied nylon, which I also did. His nylon one let go one day spraying the interior of his car with hot oil!

And yes, make sure you get your PCV sorted, otherwise you either run the risk of creating a vacuum or a blockage inside the crankcase - neither scenario is going to make you look cool on the side of the road with the hood raised - an image too frightening to consider especially where I am, where there is nothing for dozens of miles between little towns & farms.

[64 kiwi boni]

5 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Yes, it's a good spot for oil pressure. Wrongway took his feed from that point and I probably should have done the same but was too lazy to pull the distributor out - I've spent quite enough time leaning into that massive engine bay fiddling with crap at the back of the engine! He also advised that I upgrade to copper tubing to the mechanical gauge rather than the supplied nylon, which I also did. His nylon one let go one day spraying the interior of his car with hot oil!

And yes, make sure you get your PCV sorted, otherwise you either run the risk of creating a vacuum or a blockage inside the crankcase - neither scenario is going to make you look cool on the side of the road with the hood raised - an image too frightening to consider especially where I am, where there is nothing for dozens of miles between little towns & farms.

fitzy i don't think having negative air pressure in you motor from a vacuum source is an issue, a positive air pressure IS.

your motor is basically a big compressor and the crank case needs to be at least a neutral  air pressure zone or you will have issues with blowing seals and all sorts.

kiss comes to mind.

a breather to let air in and a vacuum line to your air cleaner will work fine, a pcv valve  was introduced for emissions i believe 

just having a breather on each valve cover will justA turn into a pita, positive crank pressure will push oil out of the breathers .... ie, piston blow-by

been there done that 

[JUSTA6]

4 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

fitzy i don't think having negative air pressure in you motor from a vacuum source is an issue, a positive air pressure IS.

your motor is basically a big compressor and the crank case needs to be at least a neutral  air pressure zone or you will have issues with blowing seals and all sorts.

kiss comes to mind.

a breather to let air in and a vacuum line to your air cleaner will work fine, a pcv valve  was introduced for emissions i believe 

just having a breather on each valve cover will justA turn into a pita, positive crank pressure will push oil out of the breathers .... ie, piston blow-by

been there done that 

Usually one valve cover has the oil fill in it and the other a breather.  When adding breathers, you need to put in a baffle to stop straight oil from being blown out.  Only needs to be a 1/4in or so from the bottom of your breather.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=valve+cover+baffle+kit&docid=608039911972943587&mid=C91E7DA9A5F0B1B88A55C91E7DA9A5F0B1B88A55&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

Edited April 23, 2022 by JUSTA6

[Fitzy]

Hmmm...something to think about. There's no evidence of any oil mist under those breathers yet but I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks for the info.

I wonder if there's a Pontiac specific baffle? I know some cars have the baffle as part of the rocker cover.

[Andy H]

2 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Hmmm...something to think about. There's no evidence of any oil mist under those breathers yet but I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks for the info.

I wonder if there's a Pontiac specific baffle? I know some cars have the baffle as part of the rocker cover.

So I'm trying to figure out my PCV and the pipe that goes into the passenger side valve cover doesn't have a baffle but it goes in pretty far about 2" and that is the stock one from my 326 so we will see how that works.

 

[Fitzy]

Can Of Worms Time.

I'm very happy with my Pertronix electronic ignition but there's a lot of discussion as to whether you should wire it to a switched 12V source or to the coil +. I installed a matching Flamethrower coil which is apparently internally resisted so there's no danger of frying the Ignitor module. Now, some cars have a ballast resistor (to keep the points voltage to an acceptable level) and some have 'resisted' wiring from the ignition switch which does the same thing. Apparently any old cars that were not factory TI or HEI have that resisted wiring, thereby ensuring the coil doesn't get enough volts to prematurely burn the points. After much thought, I am going to make my Ignitor 12V feed straight from the (switched) fuse box, thereby guaranteeing the full voltage that the Ignitor requires for long reliable life & satisfactory performance. The added bonus of such a change is that the car cannot be hot wired - they'll have to discover the hidden toggle switch inside the car I have installed that cuts power to the fuse box. Honestly, the discussion on this issue is huge if you check the Net. Anyway does anyone have any discussion of how they installed theirs? This is the sort of crap I think about at 3am. I think I need to get out more and meet other people, you know - the ones who drive modern Corollas and have better things to think about.

[64 kiwi boni]

25 minutes ago, Fitzy said:

Can Of Worms Time.

I'm very happy with my Pertronix electronic ignition but there's a lot of discussion as to whether you should wire it to a switched 12V source or to the coil +. I installed a matching Flamethrower coil which is apparently internally resisted so there's no danger of frying the Ignitor module. Now, some cars have a ballast resistor (to keep the points voltage to an acceptable level) and some have 'resisted' wiring from the ignition switch which does the same thing. Apparently any old cars that were not factory TI or HEI have that resisted wiring, thereby ensuring the coil doesn't get enough volts to prematurely burn the points. After much thought, I am going to make my Ignitor 12V feed straight from the (switched) fuse box, thereby guaranteeing the full voltage that the Ignitor requires for long reliable life & satisfactory performance. The added bonus of such a change is that the car cannot be hot wired - they'll have to discover the hidden toggle switch inside the car I have installed that cuts power to the fuse box. Honestly, the discussion on this issue is huge if you check the Net. Anyway does anyone have any discussion of how they installed theirs? This is the sort of crap I think about at 3am. I think I need to get out more and meet other people, you know - the ones who drive modern Corollas and have better things to think about.

People who drive corollas have no life mate!!! 

If in doubt email the pertronics guys and ask the question . I don’t think there is an auto sparky here on fp !

But my guess is use your feed from the key to switch a relay and feed it 12 good volts  

That way you can spend that special time at 3 am wondering what’s for tea tomorrow night 

Edited April 25, 2022 by 64 kiwi boni

[Andy H]

16 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Can Of Worms Time.

I'm very happy with my Pertronix electronic ignition but there's a lot of discussion as to whether you should wire it to a switched 12V source or to the coil +. I installed a matching Flamethrower coil which is apparently internally resisted so there's no danger of frying the Ignitor module. Now, some cars have a ballast resistor (to keep the points voltage to an acceptable level) and some have 'resisted' wiring from the ignition switch which does the same thing. Apparently any old cars that were not factory TI or HEI have that resisted wiring, thereby ensuring the coil doesn't get enough volts to prematurely burn the points. After much thought, I am going to make my Ignitor 12V feed straight from the (switched) fuse box, thereby guaranteeing the full voltage that the Ignitor requires for long reliable life & satisfactory performance. The added bonus of such a change is that the car cannot be hot wired - they'll have to discover the hidden toggle switch inside the car I have installed that cuts power to the fuse box. Honestly, the discussion on this issue is huge if you check the Net. Anyway does anyone have any discussion of how they installed theirs? This is the sort of crap I think about at 3am. I think I need to get out more and meet other people, you know - the ones who drive modern Corollas and have better things to think about.

You sound like a real gear head 😁 there's much worse things to worry about at 3 in the morning, I'm with Kiwi install a relay, less load on the ignition switch and 12v to the ignition.

I'm will be putting relays on the ignition and the starter.

What Petronix module do you have? I'm getting a complete ignitor 3 distributor because i don't have one, apparently the previous owners ex stole it when they got divorced 😄.

I'm going to check with a friend that works for Doug's headers ( same company as Petronix) if they have one that is as cast not shiny, 

[Fitzy]

My unit is the Ignitor 1. I had already emailed Pertronix Australia and the very helpful Jonathan confirmed that 12V from a switched source is ideal thereby bypassing potentially resisted factory wiring. I also asked how to improve the performance of my Pontiac tach and he suggested an inline resistor to mimic the reduced voltage sent by the original points. Most interesting. I shall perform both procedures upon my return in 6 days' time, as well as trying to figure out how to fabricate 2 baffles for my rocker cover breathers and THAT'S THAT!

[64 kiwi boni]

you can get resistors from jaycar mate .... but what value??? thats the question .

 i think you need a real gauge guy to sort it. that frosty tac is most likely set for like 9 volts or so ? maybe for a ballast resistor ???

and thats a guess 

may be if frosty can tell you what year its from , grab a wiring diagram and it will give you a clue

mean-while keep driving those miners to that pit. china needs your orrrrrrrr 

Edited April 27, 2022 by 64 kiwi boni

[Fitzy]

.01uF 1000VDC resistor. So there.

[64 kiwi boni]

2 hours ago, Fitzy said:

.01uF 1000VDC resistor. So there.

hmmmm,,, uf is capacitor values ! microfarads 

resistors are rated in watts 🙄

dont buy a capacitor for your tach Fitzy !

may be start with a 0.01 watt resistor 

Quote

 

 

[64 kiwi boni]

somewhere there is bound to be an equation  on what resistance to get a 12 volt power supplly down to 9 volts, if !! and thats a big if thats whats required for the tac 

Just now, 64 kiwi boni said:

somewhere there is bound to be an equation  on what resistance to get a 12 volt power supplly down to 9 volts, if !! and thats a big if thats whats required for the tac 

remember too that your tac hooks to the switching side of the coil not the power supply side and it is measuring pulses 

[Fitzy]

Boy, do I hate admitting you were right. I read it too fast and have added the content so that we may all bask in it's glow. I hope others will also find this info helpful. I did start this topic with the title 'Can Of Worms,' and so the prophecy has come to life.

[Fitzy]

It gets better - someone recommended installing a 50k ohm pot resistor (potentiometer) between the coil & tach. Turn the knob on the 'pot' and once everything works, note the resistance and install the appropriate value. He goes on to say his Mustang took 47k and his Merc needed 8.2k. Most interesting. All these components are cheap as chips, so I guess it's off to Jaycar next Tue and drive the staff mad by purchasing a little bag of 30c items. Can't wait!

[Frosty]

That actual sounds like a clever idea.

[64 kiwi boni]

8 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Boy, do I hate admitting you were right. I read it too fast and have added the content so that we may all bask in it's glow. I hope others will also find this info helpful. I did start this topic with the title 'Can Of Worms,' and so the prophecy has come to life.

wow that is interesting about using a capacitor !! the potentiometer makes sense as it is justA variable resistor, i would certainly get one mate as it can do what attempting to with ten resistors does.

bet you will find at Jaycar you have to buy packs of 10 resistors like i did !  

ps. i didnt say but  i am a registered sparky too, ! i have to be to play with all the electronics in modern gas appliances these days ! i find electronics fascinating  

[Fitzy]

NOW you reveal that! Can you come to my joint and fix all the crap at home that I'm too scared to touch? Black & crispy is okay on cajun chicken, but not on humans fiddling with 240V.

Yes, I shall purchase a 'pot' and will post how my rare beautiful treasured tach went black & crispy.

[JUSTA6]

Find out what your pertronix needs 1st.  Weak spark will not let the car start/run right.  Back in the day while using points, a resistor was used (before being able to buy the resistor coils) AND don't forget your condensor further absorbes spark to protect your points.   I use a toggle in the GTO and Sunbird, but run it in between the HOT and the HOT side of the coil.  No toggle....No run.  If the tach needs to be reduced to work properly, that should be easy to reduce the line going into the tach.  Gonna wire that tach into your dash lights?

[Fitzy]

Ignitor will be run from the fuse box, so that's the full 12V as per the Pertronix recommendations. Tach will be resisted between coil & tach. I'm not bothering to include tach illumination - I don't drive at night these days. I also have a hidden toggle that isolates the entire fuse box from it's power source, for safety and security.

[Andy H]

19 hours ago, Fitzy said:

.01uF 1000VDC resistor. So there.

That sounds like a number for a capacitor a resistor should be in ohm, did he recommend a capacitor?

[Fitzy]

All the details are in those pics I posted.

[Andy H]

33 minutes ago, Fitzy said:

All the details are in those pics I posted.

So when you play with those resistor's  connect a voltmeter on the tach side and see what you have, if you connect it without the resistor first and measure the voltage and amperage draw you should be able to figure out what resistor you need with ohms law.

I would probably go with the trial and error and measure the voltage at the tach😁. 

[Fitzy]

Did you read the pot resistor alternative? I'm going to do that. Once correct tach function has been established, resistor value will be noted and that's how I'll know what value to install.

I never thought this topic would create so much discussion!