Is the timing correct on your engine?  Is it really that hot - check it with a Harbor Freight infrared temperature gun?

If really that hot, I'd suspect a bad starter solenoid or a bad starter or something wonky with starter wiring. Check continuity and voltages with a multimeter when this happens.

Rick

6 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

thats weird! its got to have a connection to a thermostatic senor some where !

does your cold light work ?

and does it cut out when the motors up to temp ?

bye the way ... i love florida, we where over there years ago when our daughter got a placement at disney world 

so so nice 

Thanks 64 Kiwi

Yeah I looked everywhere and all the cables going to the motor are accounted for there is no second temp sensor. It did cut off the motor when I left idling at home trying to troubleshoot, and the cold light does not work do you know what temperature trigger the cold light?

Yeah Florida is nice but I am getting tired of the constant heat, need to move to a house that has a BIG GARAGE!!!!! with A/c. Currently working on my cars under the sun. 

1 hour ago, B52bombardier1 said:

Is the timing correct on your engine?  Is it really that hot - check it with a Harbor Freight infrared temperature gun?

If really that hot, I'd suspect a bad starter solenoid or a bad starter or something wonky with starter wiring. Check continuity and voltages with a multimeter when this happens.

Rick

Thanks B52bombardier1 

I have not checked timing on it never thought about that thanks. I have one of those, where would be the best place to check the temp? on the thermostat housing when it is flowing? 

In regard to the starter, would that trigger the HOT light on the dash and cut power going to the starter? The thing is that when the car was idling it cut off the motor when it got hot so I am thinking it is a safety switch when the car is not moving, since it did not cut off when I was driving yesterday I turned it off. 

By the way, I ordered a new radiator 4 cores with an integrated high CFM fan & shroud.  Now it has the original style radiator with a fixed metal blade no clutch looks like the original setup to the car.

Hello Ron,

   Shoot the IR gun close to where the engine coolant temperature sensor is located. If you aim it around the engine, you will soon see that the engine is hotter at the rear - further from the radiator - than the front.  By maybe 20 degrees F. 

   I have never heard of an engine overheat safety switch cutoff for these engines.  Even on the more modern computer-controlled LS engines that I run, they only go into a reduced power mode if they get hot.

New radiator?  Yours sounds like it'll be perfect and might solve this problem.  For my Catalina LS engine, I will soon install a two core radiator that has a coolant tubing diameter of 1.25 inches.  Overall, this allows more air to pass through the radiator with great fluid flow while still keeping the thickness nearly the same. I already have a radiator like this in my 70 El Camino and it works well here in summertime Louisiana.

Rick 

 

 

Here is a picture of my factory temp switch Ron, i recon its got 2 wires that sense cold and hot for each light ,,,,,,

do you have the 63 shop manual ? 

you can check the wiring from that sensor to the loom and see if its interconnected to the live wire to the coil. i have never had a hot light so i am not sure if it actually does cut out the motor.

any who, i recon your motor is running too hot.

so go back to the basics, check, replace your thermostat, flush your radiator, do you have a shroud on your fan? or is it justA the factory cover above the fan .... they are usless when it comes to helping pulling air .

Rick was bang on about checking your timming too.

how did you know your motors running at 210 ?

Edited December 17, 20241 yr by 64 kiwi boni

20 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Here is a picture of my factory temp switch Ron, i recon its got 2 wires that sense cold and hot for each light ,,,,,,

do you have the 63 shop manual ? 

you can check the wiring from that sensor to the loom and see if its interconnected to the live wire to the coil. i have never had a hot light so i am not sure if it actually does cut out the motor.

any who, i recon your motor is running too hot.

so go back to the basics, check, replace your thermostat, flush your radiator, do you have a shroud on your fan? or is it justA the factory cover above the fan .... they are usless when it comes to helping pulling air .

Rick was bang on about checking your timming too.

how did you know your motors running at 210 ?

Sorry for the late reply today was a crazy day at the office...

I am going to look for those 2 cables they look like green and green and black correct?

Last time I used my timing light it got caught on the belt and destroyed it, a new one is arriving friday. Will check timing soon

Thermostat valve is new even checked on hot water to make sure it was opening and it did, I flushed the cooling system twice already with the coolant flush product, brand new coolant with distilled water, it had the original fan cover until yesterday, i installed a new aluminum 4 core radiator with integrated fan shroud and high CFM electric fan and it does the same thing no changes

I checked the temperature with the autometer gauge I have on the center console, and also with a radiator cap that has a thermometer showed 203 degrees on it. 

Here is the fan and radiator I have on the car now

On 12/16/2024 at 3:13 PM, B52bombardier1 said:

Hello Ron,

   Shoot the IR gun close to where the engine coolant temperature sensor is located. If you aim it around the engine, you will soon see that the engine is hotter at the rear - further from the radiator - than the front.  By maybe 20 degrees F. 

   I have never heard of an engine overheat safety switch cutoff for these engines.  Even on the more modern computer-controlled LS engines that I run, they only go into a reduced power mode if they get hot.

New radiator?  Yours sounds like it'll be perfect and might solve this problem.  For my Catalina LS engine, I will soon install a two core radiator that has a coolant tubing diameter of 1.25 inches.  Overall, this allows more air to pass through the radiator with great fluid flow while still keeping the thickness nearly the same. I already have a radiator like this in my 70 El Camino and it works well here in summertime Louisiana.

Rick 

 

 

Thanks B52bombardier1,

I installed the new radiator yesterday it did not change anything on my setup... 

It's gotta' be timing or you have air trapped in the water jacket somewhere. 

Rick

 

completely agree with what you have done Ron 

and timing certainly needs to be checked.

but tell us about your motor ? how old, whats been done to it ...all factory 455 ? not a different intake manifold  or heads ? 

somethings making her run hot , too hot i feel 

regardless of where you live 

2 hours ago, B52bombardier1 said:

It's gotta' be timing or you have air trapped in the water jacket somewhere. 

Rick

 

Thanks B52

8 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

completely agree with what you have done Ron 

and timing certainly needs to be checked.

but tell us about your motor ? how old, whats been done to it ...all factory 455 ? not a different intake manifold  or heads ? 

somethings making her run hot , too hot i feel 

regardless of where you live 

Thanks Kiwi

I don't have much info on the motor, it came with the car when I bought it... I was told it was a 1970 Buick GS 455 Stage 1 motor... I checked the heads for numbers and it matched the Stage 1 numbers.. 

6 minutes ago, 63grandprix said:

Thanks B52

Thanks Kiwi

I don't have much info on the motor, it came with the car when I bought it... I was told it was a 1970 Buick GS 455 Stage 1 motor... I checked the heads for numbers and it matched the Stage 1 numbers.. 

once you get past , thermostat, radiator, air flow and timing you have to think about why does this motor get that hot ! is there blockages in the block/heads,  but thats only with a  old tired motor thats full of crap 

3 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

once you get past , thermostat, radiator, air flow and timing you have to think about why does this motor get that hot ! is there blockages in the block/heads,  but thats only with a  old tired motor thats full of crap 

Kiwi, that has been on the back of my head... too afraid to think about that 😉

It looks very clean when I got it I did a compression test and leak down everything was ok, I could see the crosshatch marks on the cylinder walls and the valve train looked like new... The previous owner told me that the motor was refreshed prior installing on the car. 

Hopefully it will be timing

Just now, 63grandprix said:

Kiwi, that has been on the back of my head... too afraid to think about that 😉

It looks very clean when I got it I did a compression test and leak down everything was ok, I could see the crosshatch marks on the cylinder walls and the valve train looked like new... The previous owner told me that the motor was refreshed prior installing on the car. 

Hopefully it will be timing

yeah it will be someting simple !!

what i have found is the older i get the more i over think shit !!!!

cheers from Taupo new zealand ! its 5.55pm and its beer oclock on a wednsday night the week before xmas ! work is crazy busy and all i want to do 

is bugger off to the beach and spend time with my grandies ..

and catch some snapper !!!!

A couple of other thoughts since we are talking about a Buick 455 engine.

Could you have a water pump problem? It may not be working properly or flowing enough coolant at higher engine speeds.

Check to see if the exhaust thermo bypass valve (heat riser) is not stuck in the closed position. That would send too much exhaust across the intake after "warm up" and generate unwanted heat..

I agree with everyone else, timing should definitely be checked.

 

Justa couple things.. I thought  I would mention In case anyone is interested...

First off...Are you 100% sure that the Timing mark on the Damper is Accurate...?? And the engine is really at Top Dead Center (TDC)..?? If the old damper was Reused during the engine Refresh..It is very possible that the outer ring of the Damper has slipped around the center hub...Rendering the timing mark Completely Inaccurate...If a New Chinese made Damper was used during the Refresh...Don't trust the Timing Mark on it either...Only way to be 100% sure is to manually set TDC..

Do you know what size Jets are in the Carburetor...?? Using a jet size that is too small...It will cause the engine to run Lean.= Hot... That is something to Take a Very Hard Look at...You may find that a simple Carb jet change (larger) will cure your issue...

Justa my two cents..

TLBT..

 

Edited December 18, 20241 yr by TWO LANE BLACK TOP
Spellig

15 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

yeah it will be someting simple !!

what i have found is the older i get the more i over think shit !!!!

cheers from Taupo new zealand ! its 5.55pm and its beer oclock on a wednsday night the week before xmas ! work is crazy busy and all i want to do 

is bugger off to the beach and spend time with my grandies ..

and catch some snapper !!!!

Thank Kiwi, enjoy your time with family!!! Thanks for all the help!

7 hours ago, Frosty said:

A couple of other thoughts since we are talking about a Buick 455 engine.

Could you have a water pump problem? It may not be working properly or flowing enough coolant at higher engine speeds.

Check to see if the exhaust thermo bypass valve (heat riser) is not stuck in the closed position. That would send too much exhaust across the intake after "warm up" and generate unwanted heat..

I agree with everyone else, timing should definitely be checked.

 

Water pump is 1 year old I replaced it nov/23 but now everything is from china I would not be surprised is bad already... I will remove and check it, will also look at the thermo bypass valve

Thanks Frosty

I suppose I'll chime in too. When I pulled my engine it had obviously been overheating as the previous owner had removed the thermostat altogether. Upon teardown, the water pump was worn out and crudded up, the water jackets were full of crud but the real surprise was what looked like factory sealing of the water jacket at the back of the engine - several passages were filled with a soft metal. I posted it and we all scratched our heads. I read somewhere that the factory did this on some engines but it is entirely anecdotal - something about redirecting coolant to where it was needed more.

I was not happy with it so drilled out every bit of that filler. Along with the rebuild, new Flowkooler water pump, big heavy duty radiator and correct thermostat and it sits on 190 and never wavers. I also live in the tropics.

Everything the guys said counts - timing especially and jet sizes absolutely. I had a spun harmonic balancer pulley on my ute - more common than you think. You can ascertain true TDC by rotating the engine by hand as you observe the valve action on #1 and then comparing what the pulley mark says. 

I once helped a friend out who's engine just would not run tight. Apart from a list of problems, it had been timed at 180° out. Damn thing went like a scolded cat once we finished with it!

Two Lane and Fitzy are on it!!  Also, is that electric fan getting all of the amperage it needs?  Is it running from a relay?  I use 10 gauge positive and negative wire to feed mine because I don't want my two fans per radiator starved for electrical power.

Rick

2 hours ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

Justa couple things.. I thought  I would mention In case anyone is interested...

First off...Are you 100% sure that the Timing mark on the Damper is Accurate...?? And the engine is really at Top Dead Center (TDC)..?? If the old damper was Reused during the engine Refresh..It is very possible that the outer ring of the Damper has slipped around the center hub...Rendering the timing mark Completely Inaccurate...If a New Chinese made Damper was used during the Refresh...Don't trust the Timing Mark on it either...Only way to be 100% sure is to manually set TDC..

Do you know what size Jets are in the Carburetor...?? Using a jet size that is too small...It will cause the engine to run Lean.= Hot... That is something to Take a Very Hard Look at...You may find that a simple Carb jet change (larger) will cure your issue...

Justa my two cents..

TLBT..

 

Thank you TEO LANE BLACK TOP, I think you are on the right track here, I never thought jet size would cause that, and I had no problems before, the water temp gauge was added a few months ago before I had no idea since the factory temp was not hooked up and when I had the car apart for interior and paint the previous carb went bad was not running right had lots of vacuum leaks on the shafts etc so I decided to by an AMAZON SPECIAL CHINA QUADRAJET and so it could very well be the carb that is causing it... I never had the hot light before with the old carb and I have no idea what jet sizes I have on the Chinisium carb...  Thanks a lot I am still going to check timing but I may be on the market for a better carb 

28 minutes ago, Fitzy said:

I suppose I'll chime in too. When I pulled my engine it had obviously been overheating as the previous owner had removed the thermostat altogether. Upon teardown, the water pump was worn out and crudded up, the water jackets were full of crud but the real surprise was what looked like factory sealing of the water jacket at the back of the engine - several passages were filled with a soft metal. I posted it and we all scratched our heads. I read somewhere that the factory did this on some engines but it is entirely anecdotal - something about redirecting coolant to where it was needed more.

I was not happy with it so drilled out every bit of that filler. Along with the rebuild, new Flowkooler water pump, big heavy duty radiator and correct thermostat and it sits on 190 and never wavers. I also live in the tropics.

Everything the guys said counts - timing especially and jet sizes absolutely. I had a spun harmonic balancer pulley on my ute - more common than you think. You can ascertain true TDC by rotating the engine by hand as you observe the valve action on #1 and then comparing what the pulley mark says. 

I once helped a friend out who's engine just would not run tight. Apart from a list of problems, it had been timed at 180° out. Damn thing went like a scolded cat once we finished with it!

Thanks Fitzy,

I have some homework to do now... But I never stopped to think that jet sizes could be the cause of the problem and for the price of the carb I was surprised it ran plug n play no adjustments.. I am not an expert mechanic I just like cars and like to learn how things work, I am really thankful to ALL YOU GUYS for all the tips and help !!! 

20 minutes ago, B52bombardier1 said:

Two Lane and Fitzy are on it!!  Also, is that electric fan getting all of the amperage it needs?  Is it running from a relay?  I use 10 gauge positive and negative wire to feed mine because I don't want my two fans per radiator starved for electrical power.

Rick

It is only one fan 3000 CFM and the wiring came with the kit I hope it is good enough!

2 hours ago, 63grandprix said:

Thank Kiwi, enjoy your time with family!!! Thanks for all the help!

Water pump is 1 year old I replaced it nov/23 but now everything is from china I would not be surprised is bad already... I will remove and check it, will also look at the thermo bypass valve

Thanks Frosty

You’re welcome. As for quality Buick water pumps, i know a lot of the Buick guys love the HP water pumps from TA Performance Products. They are one of the last high performance Buick parts suppliers. 

Hello everyone hope you guys are doing ok...

What oild do you guys use on the 1963 posi rear end ? I searched online and it is showing 

80W-90 GL-5 gear oil with a posi-traction additive

any particular brands for the oil and additive?

gear oil is gear oil, I usually have Penzoil on the shelf, but I make sure it's GM posi additive.

7 minutes ago, JUSTA6 said:

gear oil is gear oil, I usually have Penzoil on the shelf, but I make sure it's GM posi additive.

Thank you JUSTA6 do you use 80W-90 ?

I tend to favor posi additives with some reliability behind them. So I would use one from the following:

 

GM/AC Delco - GM’s own posi additive

Yukon - maker of posi units and diff components 

Valvoline - known oil maker

Edited May 5, 20251 yr by Frosty

1 minute ago, Frosty said:

I tend to favor posi additives with some reliability behind them. So I would use one from tge following:

 

GM/AC Delco - GM’s own posi additive

Yukon - maker of posi units and diff components 

Valvoline - known oil maker

Thank you Frosty