Hello,

  I had night time out of town activities these last two evenings and I had gotten tired of dealing with the floor tunnel sheet metal but I will return to that soon. So, I now have the LS 5.3 liter engine sitting on the shop floor and I finished connecting all of that PSI Conversions wiring harness today.  And that motor now runs, sort of, for a little bit, and its loud with only a very short length of exhaust pipe on each side.  I don't have a regulated 60 PSI of fuel pressure at the fuel rails and I think the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) can't cope at the fuel injectors with this variable fuel pressure.  I will have a solid 60 PSI of fuel pressure tomorrow when I install my Wix 33737 fuel filter/regulator.  All eight of the headers pipes get hot so I've got good ignition, good engine timing and good compression - and no backfiring. 

  Given the similar header pipe temperatures, presumably my fuel injectors are correctly actuating.  I worried about my fuel injectors because I had no idea how long they had sat around with corn liquored ethanol gasoline in them before they got to the junk yard where I acquired them - they can get permanently jammed. I cleaned them internally and checked their impedance and spray pattern after I brought them home from the junk yard.  I can see from the pressure gauge that is connected to the service port on the passenger side rail that none of them leak once the rails and the injectors get pressurized - even at considerably more than 60 PSI.  

I struggled earlier today with spotty spark ignition until I figured out that many of my hand made from a kit plug wires were not pushed all the way into the coil packs.  A little dielectric grease allowed the rubber boots to get pushed further onto each ignition coil pack for a better connection.

   Once I get a stable and correct fuel pressure with a steady idle RPM, the PCM will go through a brief period of learning and will store the parameters (temperature, air pressure, a crank position relearn, and fuel pressure among many other things) that it takes to make a good idle and to accelerate. Engine starting becomes much easier after this PCM learning occurs.  But then, the PCM will forget it all again when I kill power to it and the process will repeat until the motor, the PCM and its wiring are permanently installed in the Catalina. At that point, the PCM will have its own very low amperage but full time twelve volt battery power so that it can retain these learned parameters.

Rick

   

On 6/19/2024 at 6:10 PM, B52bombardier1 said:

Hello,

  I had night time out of town activities these last two evenings and I had gotten tired of dealing with the floor tunnel sheet metal but I will return to that soon. So, I now have the LS 5.3 liter engine sitting on the shop floor and I finished connecting all of that PSI Conversions wiring harness today.  And that motor now runs, sort of, for a little bit, and its loud with only a very short length of exhaust pipe on each side.  I don't have a regulated 60 PSI of fuel pressure at the fuel rails and I think the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) can't cope at the fuel injectors with this variable fuel pressure.  I will have a solid 60 PSI of fuel pressure tomorrow when I install my Wix 33737 fuel filter/regulator.  All eight of the headers pipes get hot so I've got good ignition, good engine timing and good compression - and no backfiring. 

  Given the similar header pipe temperatures, presumably my fuel injectors are correctly actuating.  I worried about my fuel injectors because I had no idea how long they had sat around with corn liquored ethanol gasoline in them before they got to the junk yard where I acquired them - they can get permanently jammed. I cleaned them internally and checked their impedance and spray pattern after I brought them home from the junk yard.  I can see from the pressure gauge that is connected to the service port on the passenger side rail that none of them leak once the rails and the injectors get pressurized - even at considerably more than 60 PSI.  

I struggled earlier today with spotty spark ignition until I figured out that many of my hand made from a kit plug wires were not pushed all the way into the coil packs.  A little dielectric grease allowed the rubber boots to get pushed further onto each ignition coil pack for a better connection.

   Once I get a stable and correct fuel pressure with a steady idle RPM, the PCM will go through a brief period of learning and will store the parameters (temperature, air pressure, a crank position relearn, and fuel pressure among many other things) that it takes to make a good idle and to accelerate. Engine starting becomes much easier after this PCM learning occurs.  But then, the PCM will forget it all again when I kill power to it and the process will repeat until the motor, the PCM and its wiring are permanently installed in the Catalina. At that point, the PCM will have its own very low amperage but full time twelve volt battery power so that it can retain these learned parameters.

Rick

   

Rick out of curiosity the trans you you are installing is a 4lL60e or something similar? How tight is it in the tunnel? You are having to modify the floor, I was just thinking that the Catalina should be bigger than the Le mans but obviously not? I believe they are installing th 700 transmission without altering the floor in the Le mans that i have.

Hello Andy,

   Yes, its a 4L60E transmission out of a 2002 GMC Sierra.  Paid a whopping $60.00 at the junk yard for it and they threw in a torque converter for free - it was a Half Price Sale Day. I love those days.  I haven't got the foggiest clue if this transmission will work in whatever condition it is in right now but . . . its probably rebuildable.  Same for that torque converter.

  This is a monster big B-body engine compartment and I have plenty of space for the forward end / front of this transmission where the firewall heads down and then towards the rear.  And plenty of space in front of the water pump to the radiator.  But after that, the transmission case has some warty little bumps and protuberances here and there along the side of the trans and the Cat tunnel is too narrow for those - I had to cut the tunnel to fit these. The transmission vent tube in the top of the case was also an issue. Its also narrow a little right at back end of the transmission and I didn't do myself any favors buying a Series 1350, 27 spline, 4L60E driveshaft yoke for this transmission.  Its a rather bulky yoke meant for big pickup trucks so I have now put a Series 1310 yoke onto the output shaft that is still plenty strong for a Catalina - and frees up space inside the tunnel.   

  It also didn't help that my initial placement of the engine and transmission gave me around 8-10 degrees of down angle on the centerline of the motor and transmission towards the differential. The back end of the transmission had to tip upwards and the only way to do that was to snip some tin in the tunnel roof.  I still have the original, stock, fixed length rear control arms which do not allow for any adjustment of the rear differential pinion angle. If I could adjust the pinion angle a little, it would be less critical about the transmission down angle but still . . . 8-10 degrees would be excessive and I'd still be snipping tunnel tin to make all of this work.

Rick 

 

3 hours ago, B52bombardier1 said:

Paid a whopping $60.00 at the junk yard for it and they threw in a torque converter for free - it was a Half Price Sale Day. I love those days.

gees !! wish i could say i can go to a junk yard and pay that down here!!!

Rick, isnt the 4l60e a r700 with electronics ? same case ? i dont know ?

Yes Kiwi, the 4L60 and 4L60e are the same size case as the 700R4. The gear ratios are slightly different though. The 4L60e has:

3.05 to 1 - first gear

1.625 to 1- second gear

1.00 to 1 - third gear

.696 to 1 - fourth gear

2.29 to 1 - reverse gear

Hello Chris,

  The other fundamental difference between a 700-R4 and a 4L60E is at the R4's need for a perfectly adjusted throttle valve cable.  If this cable isn't mounted and adjusted correctly, the R4 won't last more than maybe a minute or two headed down the road on its first trip out of the shop.  The cable gets pulled out of the transmission as the engine's throttle gets opened up and this cable is the signal to the R4 to increase the internal line pressure.

  Without an increase in line pressure to manage the increased torque out of the engine, the friction disk material in the R4's clutch pack gets quickly shredded.  That clutch pack material will be waiting for you in the R4's fluid pan when you begin the next rebuild an hour or so later.  The 4L60E handles this within the Powertrain / Transmission Control Module and with different internal electronics and hydraulics.

Rick    

15 hours ago, B52bombardier1 said:

Hello Andy,

   Yes, its a 4L60E transmission out of a 2002 GMC Sierra.  Paid a whopping $60.00 at the junk yard for it and they threw in a torque converter for free - it was a Half Price Sale Day. I love those days.  I haven't got the foggiest clue if this transmission will work in whatever condition it is in right now but . . . its probably rebuildable.  Same for that torque converter.

  This is a monster big B-body engine compartment and I have plenty of space for the forward end / front of this transmission where the firewall heads down and then towards the rear.  And plenty of space in front of the water pump to the radiator.  But after that, the transmission case has some warty little bumps and protuberances here and there along the side of the trans and the Cat tunnel is too narrow for those - I had to cut the tunnel to fit these. The transmission vent tube in the top of the case was also an issue. Its also narrow a little right at back end of the transmission and I didn't do myself any favors buying a Series 1350, 27 spline, 4L60E driveshaft yoke for this transmission.  Its a rather bulky yoke meant for big pickup trucks so I have now put a Series 1310 yoke onto the output shaft that is still plenty strong for a Catalina - and frees up space inside the tunnel.   

  It also didn't help that my initial placement of the engine and transmission gave me around 8-10 degrees of down angle on the centerline of the motor and transmission towards the differential. The back end of the transmission had to tip upwards and the only way to do that was to snip some tin in the tunnel roof.  I still have the original, stock, fixed length rear control arms which do not allow for any adjustment of the rear differential pinion angle. If I could adjust the pinion angle a little, it would be less critical about the transmission down angle but still . . . 8-10 degrees would be excessive and I'd still be snipping tunnel tin to make all of this work.

Rick 

 

Quite a puzzle you got there apparently, Good deal on the trans i wish i could find a TH2004R in the pick your part also.

Yes that a bit much angle on the engine/trans, don't they talk about like 3 degrees or something close to that?

Any way you can move the engine forward and lower? i believe you have the steering box and linkages behind the X member to deal with also unlike mine that are in front and out of the way.

Hello Andy,

  I'm able to go maybe a quarter inch lower at the front of the engine but I have no room to move forward. The deep portion of my Holley 302-5 oil pan is maybe half an inch behind the main engine cradle to frame support and just above that center steering linkage bar.  Fortunately, that steering linkage bar has enough factory curve in it that it does not hit the oil pan at either a full left or full right turn.  I'm about as good as I can get here for engine position except for needing some tilt up at the back of the transmission.

   I got up early this morning when it was much cooler and no kidding started this motor.  Unlike this past Wednesday when I did not have a dependable 60 PSI of fuel pressure at the rails, I did this morning with that Wix pressure regulator plumbed in.  It started easily and within about ten seconds it settled into a good idle.  Without a radiator, I only ran it for maybe forty five seconds and only at idle but it made no oddball noises - no rod knock and the lifters were pumped up with oil and quiet.  The header pipes all were about equal in how hot they were. This motor has no perceptible smoke at either header pipe flange. 

  This engine got 47 PSI for an oil pressure straight up only cranking the engine last month but my little plastic oil line gauge is a little flaky now.  I've got a new gauge and oil line kit and will check oil pressure later tonight if things cool off outside a little.  I will eventually hook up a radiator with fans and run the whole thing here on the shop floor for much longer. This will let it get into closed loop on the fuel injection and PCM engine management systems so that I can check for digital trouble codes and to live stream that thirty or so engine and transmission parameters that this PCM full time spits out for data.  Those trouble codes, if any, will be so much easier to fix now with the engine and transmission sitting on the shop floor. The Long and Short Term Fuel Trim parameter data will quickly tell me if I have any vacuum leaks that need to be dealt with.  Since this intake manifold is sitting on a set of used manifold gaskets, air leaks here certainly won't be a surprise.

Rick

   

Hello,

   I got up early this morning when it was much cooler and started the motor up again - this time, with a new oil pressure gauge.  The needle quickly climbed to 52 PSI and I'm very happy with that number.  As with these few previous engine starts, there were no oddball engine noises and no power steering pump whine.  The alternator output was checked at 13.9 volts DC at the battery which is also satisfactory but I will be much more interested in that number when the two large electric radiator fans are spinning.

  About hooking up the radiator, I'm in a debate with myself.  Making the water and electric fan connections is not the problem and I'm very curious about how the motor will handle possible head gasket leaks - hopefully none.  Any leaks will be easier to deal with now when the motor is out of the Catalina.  But I'm going to have a big water mess here on the shop floor when I eventually have to disconnect the radiator.

    The engine seems to be running well, starts easily and readily settles into a good 650 RPM idle.  But I cannot make a good serial data connection at the OBD2 datalink connector to check for any stored trouble codes.   I have tried all three of my Bluetooth ELM 327 OBD2 devices, two different Android computers, four different OBD2 software analysis apps and two different powertrain control modules all with the same results.   Yet, I can bring these things to my bench OBD2 / PCM wiring harness that I use to program the PCM's and it all works perfectly on either of my Android devices, either PCM and any of the software applications.   

I'm a little perplexed here.  It could be a faulty PCM wire or something is putting electronic noise into the engine harness.  Until I can figure this out, I think I will attach a small 12 volt lamp to the Check Engine / Service Engine Soon wire and see if its lit.  If it is illuminated, it will drive me nuts until I can solve this problem.

Rick

My brain already hurts, in sympathy.

If it were mine and the little CEL came on, it'd be a can of petrol, some matches and an ice cold beer as the damn thing burnt to the ground. But, you're better than that. It'll all be worth it.

By the way, you lost me at "I plugged the..."

Hello,

   As it turns out, my lack of serial data at the harness OBD2 port is likely self inflicted and in a brief sixty second phone call to the Help Desk of the company that built this engine harness, I think this problem might soon be solved.  I never hooked up the fat, multi pin connector to my 4L60E transmission because I didn't want its unknown internal electronic status to effect the operation of the engine.  But I'm now told that OBD2 serial data passes through the transmission on its way to the data link harness connector where I'm trying to collect it.  Duhhhhhh . . . on me.

  So I will soon get a chance to see if this theory is correct.

Rick 

 

5 hours ago, B52bombardier1 said:

Hello,

   As it turns out, my lack of serial data at the harness OBD2 port is likely self inflicted and in a brief sixty second phone call to the Help Desk of the company that built this engine harness, I think this problem might soon be solved.  I never hooked up the fat, multi pin connector to my 4L60E transmission because I didn't want its unknown internal electronic status to effect the operation of the engine.  But I'm now told that OBD2 serial data passes through the transmission on its way to the data link harness connector where I'm trying to collect it.  Duhhhhhh . . . on me.

  So I will soon get a chance to see if this theory is correct.

Rick 

 

We never stop learning aye Rick ! 

Hello,

  Another call to the Help Desk has almost certainly solved my missing serial data problem at the OBD2 connector - broken wire. They had me look for the tan wire at connector 2 on the OBD2 port and sure enough, it was broken at the connector.  I will be getting an all new 4-wire pigtail to fix this because I can't readily solder the broken wire to the end of that connector.  It'll be easier to cut the entire old connector off and then solder and shrink wrap an all new 4-wire pigtail with a new OBD2 connector.

Rick

Rick

 

Hello,

  I temporarily spliced the broken tan OBD2 wire to the connector and my serial data now flows like it should.  My Bluetooth Android software OBD2 scanner apps indicate that this engine has no malfunctions at all - zero digital trouble codes. FABULOUS!! If this area within the state of Louisiana required emissions testing, this rebuilt model year 2002 GMC Sierra motor would easily pass. The Check Engine / Malfunction Indicator Lamp is also NOT illuminated. As before, I didn't run the engine for very long and it never got into Closed Loop mode but the engine parameters that were active all looked good - the two oxygen sensors in the header pipes were responding correctly.

  I have started setting up to run this engine with a radiator but I ran out of time tonight.  With a radiator, I will be able to run the engine longer to get it into Closed Loop mode which will activate all thirty or so of the OBD2 parameter stream items. My guess is that they will also all be OK and I can then think about putting the engine and transmission back in for final fitting of the motor mounts.

Rick

 

On 6/25/2024 at 7:46 PM, B52bombardier1 said:

Hello,

  Another call to the Help Desk has almost certainly solved my missing serial data problem at the OBD2 connector - broken wire. They had me look for the tan wire at connector 2 on the OBD2 port and sure enough, it was broken at the connector.  I will be getting an all new 4-wire pigtail to fix this because I can't readily solder the broken wire to the end of that connector.  It'll be easier to cut the entire old connector off and then solder and shrink wrap an all new 4-wire pigtail with a new OBD2 connector.

Rick

Rick

 

Can you just get the pins/ terminals and just shorten the wires slightly?

Hello Andy,

  Yes, that is certainly possible, and the harness vendor gave me that option if I wanted it as a warranty repair method.  But they also gave me the choice of an all new four wire pigtail with the OBD2 connector already pinned and configured.  I'd rather solder and shrink tube those four wires than to pick apart that connector and repin it.

  And I have spoken a little too soon about the running qualities of this engine.  Mechanically speaking, the rebuilt engine is doing fine.  It's the fuel delivery aspect that is failing me.  I finally got around to connecting a radiator which allows the engine to run longer and get out of Open Loop mode and fully into Closed Loop.   In Open Loop, apparently no problems but definitely once it gets warmed up into Closed Loop, it starts running rich, especially on the driver's side.  In Closed Loop, I can see the Short and Long Term Fuel Trim numbers to know how badly it is struggling.  The driver's side header is blowing a sooty, rich mixture and the passenger side also a little.  The driver's side spark plugs are definitely wet with fuel and these plugs will all need to be replaced.

My theory here is that maybe I've got a vacuum leak at the intake manifold and maybe later tonight when it gets cooler, I can easily check for that. 

But also think about this - the oxygen sensors are very close to the end of the header pipes and these sensors may be getting confused by room air from the shop.  I've ordered some 1.75 inch pipe extensions to lengthen the pipe and shield the oxygen sensors a little better.

  There are still no trouble codes to lead me in any direction for parts to change but these are my theories.

Rick

   

Hello,

  My trouble with good Closed Loop engine operations is still not fixed.   I have thoroughly drenched the top of the intake manifold, its edges and the underside with lots of the flammable type of carb cleaner with the engine running while listening for an RPM change.  The theory is that any vacuum leak would pull some of that combustible carb cleaner in and the RPM would change.  This did not happen.

  I have created two header pipe extensions thinking maybe the oxygen sensors were getting confused by shop air.  No change.

  I have two spare Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensors here and I swapped them in tonight.  No change.   But this definitely seems like a MAF problem and led me to do some wire harness testing.  With the wiring connector removed from the MAF and the ignition key on and the engine off, there should be 12 volt power and 5 volt power on some of those wiring pins and my multimeter found none.

  I will run these tests again tomorrow night and check for continuity on these wires from the PCM to the MAF.   But I think I will call the harness vendor again.

Rick

Hello,

   My multimeter testing last night with my Mass Air Flow sensor was using an erroneous test set up.  I do have voltage and PCM signals at the MAF harness connector but that does not mean that all is good with mass airflow measuring with this engine.

  Potentially, two things are wrong with getting into Closed Loop mode on this engine.  1 - a bad MAF.  This engine ran better tonight with the currently installed MAF sensor disconnected. It is now admittedly possible that all three of my MAF sensors could be bad and I will probably buy a new one tomorrow. However, with the MAF disconnected, it will never enter Closed Loop and the PCM treats its operating system as a "Speed Density" (SD) tune to make the engine run.  It is definitely not set up to do Closed Loop and Speed Density operating and leaving the engine long term in SD mode is not what I will be happy with.

  And 2 - I thought about my horrible rich driver's side unburned fuel situation and then thought about what is the major difference between the drivers side and the passenger side???  Well . . . its the vacuum operated Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve that is installed into that side's valve cover.  It runs better with that valve removed from the valve cover and the PCV valve intake manifold vacuum blocked off and I'm not sure why. 

  But overall, this engine is back to producing no smoke from an exhaust pipe and I see no cylinder blowby smoke from that valve cover hole.  Its running a lot better.  IDK.  Maybe the rings had not seated before now which was causing my mixture problems.  Again, I don't know.   All I know is that the more I run this motor, the better it gets and it sure sounds a lot better with two, 9-inch pipe extensions on the end of each header collector. Lastly, it is far better to delouse problems with this engine sitting on the shop floor now than crawling over a Catalina fender later.  I'm still looking at swapping the four blackened driver's side spark plugs that were soaked in that rich mixture of fuel before installing this motor in the Catalina. 

  All leaves and vacations are cancelled until my morale improves with this engine but at least I'm headed in the right direction.

Rick

 

Hello,

  My LS engine problem is finally solved and of course, it was a very simple but completely self inflicted problem.   Somebody on the LS1Tech site last night suggested that I had the oxygen sensor wires swapped and connected to the wrong side.  Sure enough, I got up this morning and made the switch.  Within about thirty seconds, I could tell things were much different and this engine now purrs like a kitten in Open Loop and fully warmed up in Closed Loop.

  Now back to the regularly scheduled Catalina problem solving.  

Rick

 

Hello,

   My new OBD2 connector pigtail arrived from the vendor on Friday and I can now proceed with removing the old one and soldering in the new one.  

  After the previous fix of learning that my oxygen sensor cables were swapped to the wrong sides and connecting a radiator with E-fans,  I have been able to run the engine longer.  I had not set up the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) power wiring to provide separate feeds for key on, twelve volt PCM boot up power and another full time, low amperage power wire for memory keep alive.  Now that this is done, the PCM retains its learned knowledge of what it takes for ease of starting, quickly attaining a dependable idle RPM and brisk acceleration and deceleration of the engine.  It starts up very quickly now and there is no smoke from either side of the header pipes - and no blowby from the cylinders. With one quick application of power to the starter, it roars to life and settles down very nicely at 50 PSI of oil pressure on hot oil.

  But all is not perfect with this engine - there is a slight tapping low at the front of the engine. I thought that maybe this was an idler pulley noise or a noise from within the power steering pump - no. Mercifully, it does NOT sound like a rod knock because its not that deep kind of sound.  Shortly after bringing this engine home from the rebuild shop, I had to remove the original oil pan because it was too deep and was never going to work in a B-body Catalina. The original pan would have been too low to the street and its shape would have interfered with the steering mechanism.  The new shallower oil pan also has a different style of pickup tube that also required that the original windage tray be cut to fit around that new tube.  Afterwards, I installed the modified windage tray and pulled the engine crankshaft through many rotations to check clearances and all was good and clear. Even with the modified tray and the new oil pan installed, there were no indications of clearance problems when rotating the crankshaft.

  I think that the windage tray has come loose above the oil pan but I must now lift the engine off the floor to figure this out. The engine oil will need to be drained and I will take this opportunity to cut open the oil filter to look at the paper pleats to see if the filter picked up any rebuild related debris. The only way to do this engine lift is to remove the intake manifold and disconnect many of those wire harness connectors.  I would have needed to remove the intake manifold anyway to lift the engine and transmission back into the engine compartment and it is far better to discover this problem now with the motor sitting on the shop floor. I may completely eliminate the front half of this already heavily modified windage tray because its not doing much for oil spray control up front now anyway.  This is largely for extended high RPM operations and the Catalina will never see those conditions. 

  All of these wiring disconnects will certainly happen much faster than hooking them up for the first time. And I have created color coordinated paint dots on the oxygen sensor connectors so that I will never make that mistake on this engine again. 

Rick

Remember when Homer Simpson rewired his toaster and turned it into a Time Machine? Just sayin.' Be careful.

Hello,

  I finally got around to removing the oil pan last night and I'm glad that I did.   Indeed, more of the windage tray will need to be removed.  I looked at the instructions for the Holley 302-5 oil pan again and its clear that I did not cut enough off. I thought that as long as the crankshaft rotating assembly did not hit anything and that there was enough tray clearance for the 302-5 pickup tube to attach to the oil pump that everything was OK.  Wrong. I will be throwing lots of sparks with the cutting wheel again very soon to make the tray shorter.

  For this to be a freshly rebuilt engine, it had quite a lot of carbon debris and some tiny bits of metal in the pan - some bits of steel and some bits of aluminum.  I used the oil filter can cutter to look at the filter's paper pleats and there was nothing there.  Hopefully, I have dodged some steel and aluminum bullets here that would have eventually caused engine damage.  Its all cleaned up now and the plan is to have the windage tray shortened and the oil pan back on this weekend.

Rick   

Any updated pics?

Hello Al,

  Yes, and a little You Tube video of the engine running.  The circulating hot engine oil washed down some small pieces of carbon that did not get removed by the hot tank process and the drain plug magnet picked up a little steel fuzz.

Rick 

 

 

Your car really looks cool from behind.  It has some unique curves.

 

I truly Love Pontiacs.