Bringin' It Back From The Dead - 70 Catalina Convertible

[B52bombardier1]

Hello,

   Ok, here we go for a build thread on my wife's green 70 Catalina convertible.  I got it dragged home on the biggest UHaul auto trailer last Saturday from Mannford, OK.  It's missing a few pieces of body trim and two headlight bezels.  The motor is gone but there is still a TH350 transmission in there under there.  Its also missing a hood hinge but I ordered two new hinges today from "Ames Performance".  The "CTC Auto Ranch" people might have one of the missing trim pieces still available on a parts car - will know more tomorrow.  And they absolutely have a 15 inch Pontiac steel wheel for the spare tire.  In the light of day and after most of the Oklahoma dust and dirt got removed, the paint is in worse shape than I thought.  Its not quite a patina but almost . . . thinking here about how best to avoid a big repaint expense.   And my two gearhead buddy's that went with me think that the 38,012 miles on the odometer are correct because the rubber on the brake pedal and gas pedal is not worn much.  Or quite possibly, the odometer quit working at some point.  This car is still running bias ply tires and the genuine, not available in any store Oklahoma air stayed in all four tires for the road trip here back to Louisiana.

There is one rust through hole right behind the drivers rear wheel - an easy sheet metal repair. The power convertible top is in shreds but the pieces all seem to be in place.  So much to write about here but this is not a sprint to get the Cat back on the road, its a marathon.  I'm not "Vice Grip Garage" or "Roadkill" but . . . . I aspire to be, sort of.  It got registered and titled today and my first big job is to get the LS engine to the machine shop.  After that, the seats and the carpet are coming out.  I also need to decide on my LS engine motor mounts after tape measuring the engine compartment and doing a little imagineering.

 

Rick

 

Edited February 27 by B52bombardier1

[Fitzy]

I wonder what exotic powder went up the noses of the front end stylists? That imposing chrome snout is faintly Edsel like. In direct contrast, I love the way the rear lights meld into that very stylish rear bumper. Perhaps the two groups of stylists weren't talking to each other. When you're sailing out past Mars in a psychedelic funk, who cares what the guys doing the other end of the car think!

She's gonna be a beauty when you clean her up.

[B52bombardier1]

Hello Peter,

  Yes, quite Edsel-like and I had not thought of it that way.   Minus the vertical bar in that big grill, my thoughts drift to the look of a horse collar used over the head and shoulders of a horse pulling a wagon.  That is kinda' sexy in an automotive horsepower kinda' way . . . . maybe.  

Nevertheless, I will be doing lots of inspections and the ordering of parts for a while.  This build thread won't look much like a build thread for several months so hold on tightly as I turn back the hands of time and previous owner neglect. It took me about eighteen months to get my El Camino to move under its own power and another year for everything to work  / look good. My plan is to throw at least thirty minutes - Every. Single. Day. - at this project, rain or shine and doing something.   This is how I did it with the EC and those seemingly tiny chunks of useless, wasted bits of time do add up.

  This saga will continue.

Rick

 

[B52bombardier1]

I'm finding that the rocker panel trim on the passenger side and the narrow, waist high trim along the passenger rear quarter panel are going to be hard to find.  I have tried the CTC Auto Ranch, Desert Valley, Happy Valley and Nobody Else parts cars in their yards.  

Anybody got any suggestions for other places to find these long pieces of trim.   I have found my two needed headlight bezels but not these long pieces.

 

Rick

[Fitzy]

You know about Ames, of course. There's Frank's Pontiac Parts, OPGI, The Parts Place and a number of obselete NOS parts purveyors online. Don't forget ebay and Craigslist.

I used to simply try several generic search terms, like '1965 Pontiac' and then put on a helmet and dive down the first rabbit hole. Hours of your life are ready to be consumed.

[Wrongway]

Gonna be a looker when you get her done Rick! I personally think that grill is kinda cool bro.

[64 kiwi boni]

Rick 

i think it’s exciting !!!

take heaps of pictures and post them on your thread 

I found that after all the years of posting in my 64 thread  . I go back and reference them myself !!!! 

Kinda like a cloud based treasure trove ! 

But free ! 

JustA don’t tell ringo 

Edited February 28 by 64 kiwi boni

[64 kiwi boni]

10 hours ago, Fitzy said:

I used to simply try several generic search terms, like '1965 Pontiac' and then put on a helmet

One should always use protection !! Hahaha 

[B52bombardier1]

Hello,

  I'm happy to report that there is a 70 two door Catalina parts car that is an hour and a half northwest of here that might have usable rocker trim.  We simply need to work out a price and I will drive up there to get it rather than risk having it shipped.  He also has a 15 inch spare wheel.

  And shock of all shocks - Amazon has my right rear quarter panel waist high trim in stock from a company called Automotive Authority LLC.  This will be two rolled up 13 foot lengths that can be trimmed to down to fit and that are attached using some of that mega-sticky peel-able adhesive from 3M. These also have the arrow-shaped ends.  The only minor problem is that it is white down the centerline and I will have to mask off the chrome to repaint it in the correct shade of black.  No biggy at all.

  Thusly, I will soon be able to say that I have a complete Catalina car. Only then to turn around and start to somewhat take it apart for restoration.

 

Rick

 

Edited February 29 by B52bombardier1

[B52bombardier1]

Hello,

  I got the trunk cleaned out and found a good Sears Craftsman 9/16th socket and the convertible top well yielded a good set of pliers - bonus for both.

  The fellow with the good rocker trim has offered a price that is fair and I will also buy the spare steel wheel for an equally good price.  All that remains is to decide when to make the hour and a half drive to northeast Texas and pick these things up.  My two new hood hinges and springs also arrived today.

  And I've poked around a little with the horrible paint on this car and have discovered something - this is a poorly done repaint. There's a far better layer of original paint under this top coating of yuck and I simply need to figure out how to remove the ugly topcoat. My ten month old grand daughter paints better than this. It had to have been repainted outside in a desert sandstorm.

  I'm also going to be on the hunt for the original factory build sheet as I take this car apart and it'll be above the fuel tank, behind a door panel, under the carpet or within one of the seats.  Maybe stuck into a spring supporting the seat foam.

 

Rick

 

Edited March 1 by B52bombardier1

[JUSTA6]

You should ask if you can take the trim off yourself.  Take correct tools and mark where all clips and fasteners go.  Grab everyone of the clips you can get.  All your CAR finds and no money?  nickels, dimes, quarters? 

[B52bombardier1]

Four, maybe five pennies on the passenger side floor board carpet plus a small handful of lug nuts in the glove box that . . . . wait for it . . . don't fit this car.  I'm much more interested / semi public health afraid about what is under the seats.  But meh, its getting new carpet.

  I completely agree about me doing the removal of the trim from that parts car and I'm also going to talk him out of the badly mangled rocker trim on the other side.  There should two good trim retainers each on both sides.

Rick

[Frosty]

13 hours ago, B52bombardier1 said:

  I'm also going to be on the hunt for the original factory build sheet as I take this car apart and it'll be above the fuel tank, behind a door panel, under the carpet or within one of the seats.  Maybe stuck into a spring supporting the seat foam.

 

 

Good luck finding it. Sometimes it is still in good shape, but often times -- time, weather, or invasive critters end up destroying the build sheets. Fortunately this a Pontiac. A company exists that will allow you to get a reproduction build sheet and a lot of other good information on your car. It is called Pontiac Historical Services Online (or PHS Online). For $75 on your credit card and your car's VIN#, they will send a packet of information on your car including the build sheet and the MSRP sticker. Pontiac is the only GM car division to still have all it's records intact.

https://www.phs-online.com/

Edited March 1 by Frosty

[B52bombardier1]

Hello,

 Lotsa' stuff happened today.   The dry rotted left front bias-ply "Maypop" tire popped yesterday, literally.  So I got a used tire today just to have something at that corner - there's no need to spend big dollars on tires at this point.  I tried to get that brake drum off while I had that wheel off and had no luck with hammering, heat and penetrating oil.  It's time for a puller tool, probably for all of the drum brakes.

My wife and I got the hood lifted off and stored away so that I can begin checking on electrical power for the Cat.  This engine compartment wiring is stiff and frayed in places and I can't get 12 volt power past the firewall half of the fuse block - no juice into the interior.  I've put three amps at 13.8 volts into it using a very dependable circuit-breakered Radio Shack power supply and then probe for power inside the passenger compartment at the glass fuses - I get nothing there.  I suspect a ground problem and I may have to make my own new ground or clean up one of the old braided lines from the engine to the body sheet metal.  I'd love to hear the AM-only radio crackle back to life.  Maybe see if the turn signals and brake lights work but that'll take more than three amps - baby steps here to keep the magic smoke inside the insulation.  My thoughts are quickly turning towards getting an all new wiring harness from "Painless" or an "American Auto Wire Classic Update" wiring harness for the body and a new, standalone LS engine harness. 

  I used a canned liquid called "Goof Off" to start removing that sticky stuff from the steering wheel and it seems to work OK. We shall see if the stickiness returns.

  My missing headlight bezels got here yesterday and today and they look good.  I head into Texas tomorrow afternoon to grab the rocker trim and a spare 15 inch steel wheel.

  And I noticed something - this Catalina has managed to keep a perfect, original green dashboard cover.  There's not a single sun-baked crack in it.

Rick

 

[64 kiwi boni]

Nice work Rick 👍

glad your enjoying the strip down .. that’s the thing with these cars 

they are so simple to work on 

don’t forget the pictures !!! Some one on here loves seeing them 

[Fitzy]

I found my car's original build sheet wedged inside the back seat backrest, up against one of the springs. Frosty kindly decoded it for me.

[B52bombardier1]

Hello Chris,

   Yes to pictures - I really need to do that.  I will be pressure washing the engine compartment, steering gear and control arms this afternoon if there is time after returning from Texas to retrieve parts from that Catalina parts car.  Things are easier to work on when they are clean and I'm eventually going to spray a fresh coat of "Chassis Black" paint in the engine compartment. 

As a comedian once said . . . "Here's your sign" - Somebody around here needs to hand me a sign to hang around my neck that say's "I'm stupid".  It occurred to me last night why I could not get that front brake drum off.  I have only ever worked on cars like my El Camino that have drum brakes on the rear that don't have a dust cap, cotter pin and a big castelated nut that has to come off.  Duhhhhh!!!

 Maybe those front drums will be a lot easier now . . . . yes, I'm stupid.

Rick

 

[B52bombardier1]

Hello Again,

   Much has happened - some good, some not so good.  I found some significant rust through corrosion but its in a place where pre-cut and stamped patch panels are available - driver's side front floor panel.  Classic Industries had a big B-Body front, left floor pan patch panel and it is on its way here.  Apparently, the left front corner of the convertible top leaked a lot onto the carpet and yep . . . its badly rusted.   The hard part is not the welding, its the cutting out of the damaged sheet metal.  I have to get under the vehicle and drill upward holes that bracket the traced outline of the floor support braces so that I will know how close I can get to the support braces with the cutoff wheel.  First, remove the front seat and all of the front section of the carpet, carpet pad and jute backing. Then I will then burn through a package of cutoff wheels and spot weld cutting drill bits. Wish me luck that I don't set myself or anything else on fire throwing sparks everywhere.

  And the good part?  Today, I went to the Mount Pleasant, TX place that had my missing rocker trim, hood hinges and a spare 15 inch wheel.  The piece of trim that appeared too bad to re-use really isn't that bad so I got it, too.   With some heat gun heat, a leather-faced hammer and a leather-backed work surface, it should clear up nicely.  My new replacement other trim from Amazon also arrived the other day.  It needs some masking tape and a shot of semi-gloss paint and it'll be perfect to use on the waist high rear quarter panels.

  I also got the engine compartment pressure washed but it didn't help much.  It will get a coat of paint.

  The engine compartment got measured for fitting an LS engine, 4L60E transmission, its exhaust manifolds and the low drivers side AC compressor down in there should not be a problem.  This vehicle is about three inches wider than my El Camino between the frame rails. I've almost decided to go with the ICT Billet "Builder's Engine Mount Kit" part number 551028-LS01 as the engine mount here.  This kit provides the engine mount halves and the frame stand halves in the kit all engineered together.  The "legs" of the mount provide about three inches of elevation that I can either add to or cut down to achieve the proper driveline angle towards the rear differential.  My only regret here is that I will likely need to hire a mobile welder to come to the shop to weld the legs to the engine crossmember between the frame rails - my wire fed MIG won't do metal this thick.  The mystery here is the available space under the hood to clear the intake manifold and I won't know that until I set the engine in. The driveline angle is more important than re-using the LS truck tall intake manifold - they make less tall LS engine intake manifolds.

Rick

 

 

[JUSTA6]

Nice, thankz for the update.

[64 kiwi boni]

2 hours ago, B52bombardier1 said:

The mystery here is the available space under the hood to clear the intake manifold and I won't know that until I set the engine in. The driveline angle is more important than re-using the LS truck tall intake manifold - they make less tall LS engine intake manifolds.

Rick

they sure do rick ... here is the l98 thats going into my 57 and i have another one to go into my 63 wagon 

this ones out of a ve Holden you will find them in g8 pontiacs 

Edited March 7 by 64 kiwi boni

[Frosty]

Good score on the trim. What is the name of the place in Mt. Pleasant TX? Is this a place with a lot of old classics that I should add to my list of classic car wrecking and salvage yards?

Edited March 7 by Frosty

[B52bombardier1]

Hello,

   Here's the link to the Mt Pleasant, TX parts car that I picked from yesterday:

https://www.larrylawrence.com/shop/parts-cars/1970-pontiac-catalina-w-400cid-parts-car/

Hit the Home button to see the entire site and all parts cars.

Rick

 

 

[B52bombardier1]

Hello,

  I spent half of yesterday and half of today working on the E-fan controllers in my El Camino - I switched to the Davies-Craig part number 0444 and will probably do the same with the LS motor in the Catalina. The former Four Seasons pn 35879 controllers kept dying on me.

   Now that the EC is roadworthy again, its back to working on the Catalina.  The extra hour of daylight will definitely motivate me.

Rick  

[B52bombardier1]

Hello,

   It was NOT easy - I spent two hours yesterday getting the driveshaft and the TH400 transmission removed.  I thought it might be a TH350 but a good look at the shape of the pan revealed that its a TH400. This might be worth a little more to somebody around here as a core for rebuild.

  The driveshaft would not come out due to dry, tight fitting splines.  Only through the use of a "come along" cable hoist dragging the shaft rearward (that ball hitch came in handy) and a big hammer banging on the side of the driveshaft yoke did it finally come out. 

  Then the book said to remove the transmission crossmember and the nut on the center bolt that anchors the tail of the trans to remove the transmission from the crossmember.  Well . . .  the tail of the trans could not go high enough to get the bolt out of the crossmember center hole and I couldn't remove the crossmember due to a tight fit.  After enough yanking up, down and side to side and banging on that bolt with a big hammer, it all finally came out. 

   Only to make a huge transmission fluid mess on the floor that I spent the last two hours today cleaning up. And that 54 year old, dried on, baked on and fossilized transmission case grime did not yield to a 3000 PSI pressure washer.  That's a problem for the next person.

My next wrestling match underneath this Cat will be to remove the fuel tank.

Rick

 

[Frosty]

Isn't it amazing that with cars, the simplest of jobs takes twice or three times longer than anyone ever expects it to.

Edited March 15 by Frosty