Havoc's '48 Farmall "Progression"

[havoc1482]

Ordered that new seal today. 17 bucks.

[Ghost]

when does it arrive?

[havoc1482]

Next week. I told them it wasn't priority. CNH Global takes forever to deliver parts, but at least there estimated delivery times aren't wrong.

[havoc1482]

Pretty sure the mainshaft ball bearing just f*cking exploded.

[Ghost]

ooh that sucks. difficult to repair?

[Frosty]

Pretty sure the mainshaft ball bearing just f*cking exploded.

Ah sh*t !

Any idea how bad yet?

[havoc1482]

Ah sh*t !

Any idea how bad yet?

Won't know until I split the tractor in the spring. My guess is a ball spun out of the bearing. I noticed a vertical and lateral play in the main shaft when I popped the top earlier, like a shaft in a hole slightly too big (Men, we've all experienced this). I noticed a weird tapping noise like two gears almost meshing (in the very front) when I turned the PTO by hand while the engine wasn't running with the clutch in and top off.

This is my theory. So towards the front of transmission right as the Main Shaft enters the housing there is a sliding gear on it, this gear meshes with a gear on the Counter Shaft below it. I believe the top gear is 4th, so it slides forward to engage the countershaft gear below it, following? Good. As you already knew, I've had a bearing issue for a while, so my guess is that the play in the shaft finally got bad enough where the two gears meshed when they weren't supposed to and BANG caused a shockwave right at the Front main shaft bearing to cause a critical failure.

[havoc1482]

I'm gonna need an 2 ton engine hoist ($$$). Gotta stack wood under one end, use the hoist on the other, unbolt the transmission from the torque tube, and roll it away. Which is just dangerous, no matter how you go at it. Luckily each split end with have 3 points of contact unlike the C (pictured below) I'm also working on. The front end will tip over unless I brace it properly because of the tricycle wheel setup (not shown).

[Frosty]

Won't know until I split the tractor in the spring. My guess is a ball spun out of the bearing. I noticed a vertical and lateral play in the main shaft when I popped the top earlier, like a shaft in a hole slightly too big (Men, we've all experienced this). I noticed a weird tapping noise like two gears almost meshing (in the very front) when I turned the PTO by hand while the engine wasn't running with the clutch in and top off.

This is my theory. So towards the front of transmission right as the Main Shaft enters the housing there is a sliding gear on it, this gear meshes with a gear on the Counter Shaft below it. I believe the top gear is 4th, so it slides forward to engage the countershaft gear below it, following? Good. As you already knew, I've had a bearing issue for a while, so my guess is that the play in the shaft finally got bad enough where the two gears meshed when they weren't supposed to and BANG caused a shockwave right at the Front main shaft bearing to cause a critical failure.

I'm gonna need an 2 ton engine hoist ($$$). Gotta stack wood under one end, use the hoist on the other, unbolt the transmission from the torque tube, and roll it away. Which is just dangerous, no matter how you go at it. Luckily each split end with have 3 points of contact unlike the C (pictured below) I'm also working on. The front end will tip over unless I brace it properly because of the tricycle wheel setup (not shown).

Sounds like serious and damn expensive repair Havoc. If things are as bad as you've described them, I suspect you are in for more parts replacement once you've got it torn apart and had a chance to inspect things. I think you may have had a serious critical failure on your hands and more than the bearing might have failed.

Its been my experience that when a bearing fails, it often takes other important parts with it. Bearings and bushing are suppose to work with some sort lubricate to prevent metal to metal contact. When they fail, grind occurs and that is never a good thing.

I am glad you are planning ahead with safety in mind. Renting heavy duty equipment might be a necessary evil to support the front weight of the tractor like you've described. So unless you plan to purchase heavy duty gear, I suggest you start shopping around for places that will rent this stuff to you and see what they charge. That way you know where to go come spring and you won't waste any time hunting around for it.

[havoc1482]

I might look into getting a whole new transmission if its bad. People part out these tractors all the time and if I'm lucky enough I might be able to get my hands on a transmission. The gears look okay though, I might very well just be a critically damaged bearing main shaft, maybe I'll have to throw a new gear or 2 in. I think I might go and purchase the hoist instead of renting. Having that handy will enable to get at more areas for replacement/repairs. Taking off 150lb wheels and 100lb final drives isn't an easy task, even at my age.

For example, I need to replace the bearing and seal on the left final because it weeps oil onto the brake band, having a hoist to lift that off the side of the tractor would be Super (A).

Restoring old toys is a headache. Frosty, how do you guys do it??

[Frosty]

We build out our garage and pole barns, stock pile them with the right parts and tools, or we have buddies who do have the specialty tools we need. We spend time going thru parts and tool catalogs getting things we want and rummaging around swap meets looking for all those hard to come by, fan dangled parts and tools. It becomes a life style....and you can still drink beer if you spend your money wisely enough and you don't tell your wife how much you really spent on that air racquet.

[99gagt3x00]

damn you want a hand man..pretty much everything i had planned is on hold till it warms up and the snow is gone.. was gonna do the rear shocks on the subaru but since the rear wheel wells are ALWAYS packed with snow and it's been snowing like every other day that's on hold..

if you want a hand saturdays are free for me.

[havoc1482]

NOISE NOISE NOISE NOISE from the tranny.

Have a listen.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LB8N83tBbk

[Ringo64]

That's weird. Especially with the issue you were mentioning with one of the gears having an impression on them, I would suggest taking it apart the best you can and make sure nothing is flaking/breaking off or in there.

[Frosty]

I think you are heading for a tear down and possible rebuild Havoc. I concure with Ringo. If something came apart and left an impression on one of the gears, then it may have just as easily bent or misshaped a gear tooth or two or three and the noise is premature metal-to-metal contact. You could also have a loose chip of metal floating around in there that you can not see in the video, but it maybe trapped at the bottom of the gear set.

In this case, my advise is to remove the entire gear set and have it sent out for inspection and possible replacement. Its the only way to truly know. While the gears are out, check the bottom of the case for metal shavings or metal chunks. That's always a place to look to see if bad things are happening.

I agree with you that the wear on the shift side of the gears is from time and missing a shift or two over the years. The wear didn't look that bad to me in the video. Still I recommend having someone inspect them. There could be stress cracks we can not see in the video.

[havoc1482]

I think you are heading for a tear down and possible rebuild Havoc. I concure with Ringo. If something came apart and left an impression on one of the gears, then it may have just as easily bent or misshaped a gear tooth or two or three and the noise is premature metal-to-metal contact. You could also have a loose chip of metal floating around in there that you can not see in the video, but it maybe trapped at the bottom of the gear set.

In this case, my advise is to remove the entire gear set and have it sent out for inspection and possible replacement. Its the only way to truly know. While the gears are out, check the bottom of the case for metal shavings or metal chunks. That's always a place to look to see if bad things are happening.

I agree with you that the wear on the shift side of the gears is from time and missing a shift or two over the years. The wear didn't look that bad to me in the video. Still I recommend having someone inspect them. There could be stress cracks we can not see in the video.

Its getting torn down regardless. I mean I never really fully looked into the transmission before. For all I know that mark could have been made in the gear before I was even born haha. Hell, that gear in particular can be run with a missing tooth, I've see it before. It bears no load and isn't even steel, its a much softer die-cast zinc. I'll update you guys when I actually remove the transmission box from the tractor.

[havoc1482]

damn you want a hand man..pretty much everything i had planned is on hold till it warms up and the snow is gone.. was gonna do the rear shocks on the subaru but since the rear wheel wells are ALWAYS packed with snow and it's been snowing like every other day that's on hold..

if you want a hand saturdays are free for me.

I appreciate the offer man. I don't know if it would be worth if for you to come all the way out here though. Even when I work in it with my friend it always ends up him kinda standing there while I work. Then again you are probably more mechanically inclined than he is haha

[99gagt3x00]

I appreciate the offer man. I don't know if it would be worth if for you to come all the way out here though. Even when I work in it with my friend it always ends up him kinda standing there while I work. Then again you are probably more mechanically inclined than he is haha

if you ever want it i'm usually around fri and sat..

[havoc1482]

[Ringo64]

Tear that bish down!

[Frosty]

Great job Havoc! Let us know what you find.

[havoc1482]

So, I got the transmission off the tractor and onto the bench. I haven't dug much into the transmission yet. I need a damn puller to remove the driveshaft flange before I can pull the main spline shaft out (was really hoping to avoid that). The bearings for the countershaft sound AWFUL. I moved the gears into neutral with my fingers and rotated the differential through the rear so only the countershaft was spinning. Those bearings don't sound too great. Surprisingly the main-shaft bearings are relatively quiet, and I found out that the loud noise in my video was actually two gears rubbing because without the forks to hold them they just slide a little into each other via gravity. I think I'm going to put the shifter back on to test the alignment of the forks. I haven't looked at all 4 bearings, but I'm going to replace them anyways. Cover all the bases and because its a rare occasion I'll be able to dive into them so thoroughly. Last thing I want is to put it back together and something else breaks haha.

I found a little piece of metal on the bottom of the case. I haven't gotten it out yet because the shafts aren't out. It looks to be about the size of my thumbnail, but thats all I know so far.

[stratman]

You're doing great work there Havoc... I bet the ol' Farmall will be dancing in no time!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1588277398070735&fref=nf

[havoc1482]

Thanks stratman. And IVE SEEN THAT VIDEO haha. All I can think of is those poor clutches and reverse gears.

More on topic. Do you think I'll be okay with a little 2 jaw gear puller for the driveshaft flange? Its only about a little bit bigger than my palm in diameter, but its not round.

It looks like this. kinda t-shaped. Shop manual just says "using a suitable puller"

The manual also says "Remove front bearing retainer and riveted pin which positions reverse gear on spline shaft. Buck up reverse gear and drive main spline shaft rearward and out of case." I have NO clue what "buck up" means lol.

[Frosty]

Could it be a typo and the word should be "back" instead of "buck". Otherwise, buck up is suppose to mean "to be encourage or invigorated to tackle a problem". It can also mean "brace".

I think your two jaw gear puller will work fine so long as you can get the jaw fingers behind the flange enough to grab on while you are trying to pull it.