Opinions Needed - New vs Rebuilt Tilt Column

[Frosty]

Ok boys - as many of you know, I mucked my stock non-tilt "floor shift" steering column by cross threading the damn steering wheel jam nut this fall. So know I have a decision to make:

1. Fix the existing steering column

2. Purchase an aftermarket tilt column

3. Purchase a rebuilt OEM tilt column

My stock column has factory cruise, so the cruise turn signal and wiring has to be removed from my old column and moved to any new column. That is a given. Also, I'd like to re-use my stock ignition key if possible. I also plan to re-use my stock Formula steering wheel.

I've decided that I would prefer to have a tilt column over a non-tilt column. So I'd rather spend money getting a new (to me) column rather than have the old one rebuilt.

Now I have talked to Ididit steering columns out of Tecumseh Michigan. They have an A-body floor shift column that runs just under $1000 and then it requires an additional installation kit that contains a new rag joint, collapsible shaft and U-joint. This is another $300-400. So all in with taxes and shipping is around $1400-1500. They don't recommend re-using the stock ignition cylinder and key either. I will have to still transfer my cruise handle and wiring to the new column though.

I've been poking around the internet and I've found rebuilt A-body tilt columns around $500 - 700. Since it is OEM, I can re-use the key cylinder and I still need to transfer the cruise handle and wiring. No mention of an installation kit but I'm sure a new rag joint is still a good idea after all these years.

So what do you guys think? Should I go aftermarket tilt column with a warranty and such or go rebuilt OEM which is cheaper but with no guarantees? Any pros or cons that you see besides the obvious price and guarantee differences?

[64 kiwi boni]

Oem mate , is my thought 

easy to swap over no stress and everything works just like factory 

how often are you going to use tilt on a column ??

expect anything aftermarket to not fit as you would wish it too 🙄

Certainly do the rag joint... they look ok but I bet it’s as soft as! I did a new one on the camaro a few years ago .... wow it was certainly a whole lot nicer to steer !!! 

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Personally I would be very Tempted to fix the original column...Although it can be a tedious and aggravating operation and requires alot of patience...

If you decide to go with the tilt wheel...I would agree with Kiwi...It would be hard to go wrong with an OEM unit..

GM..Non tilt column...

Edited December 9, 2021 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[JUSTA6]

4 hours ago, Frosty said:

Ok boys - as many of you know, I mucked my stock non-tilt "floor shift" steering column by cross threading the damn steering wheel jam nut this fall. So know I have a decision to make:

1. Fix the existing steering column

2. Purchase an aftermarket tilt column

3. Purchase a rebuilt OEM tilt column

My stock column has factory cruise, so the cruise turn signal and wiring has to be removed from my old column and moved to any new column. That is a given. Also, I'd like to re-use my stock ignition key if possible. I also plan to re-use my stock Formula steering wheel.

I've decided that I would prefer to have a tilt column over a non-tilt column. So I'd rather spend money getting a new (to me) column rather than have the old one rebuilt.

Now I have talked to Ididit steering columns out of Tecumseh Michigan. They have an A-body floor shift column that runs just under $1000 and then it requires an additional installation kit that contains a new rag joint, collapsible shaft and U-joint. This is another $300-400. So all in with taxes and shipping is around $1400-1500. They don't recommend re-using the stock ignition cylinder and key either. I will have to still transfer my cruise handle and wiring to the new column though.

I've been poking around the internet and I've found rebuilt A-body tilt columns around $500 - 700. Since it is OEM, I can re-use the key cylinder and I still need to transfer the cruise handle and wiring. No mention of an installation kit but I'm sure a new rag joint is still a good idea after all these years.

So what do you guys think? Should I go aftermarket tilt column with a warranty and such or go rebuilt OEM which is cheaper but with no guarantees? Any pros or cons that you see besides the obvious price and guarantee differences?

If you can pickup your tilt with eveything you want including keeping your key for 1/2 the price of Ididit.  Where's the question?  Whats to screw up?  OK the jam nut and or maybe short out a wire.  Rag joint was 10.00 last one I bought.   I've always considered Ididit a street rod upgrade to get around build problems anyway.  Justa me.

[Fitzy]

For what it's worth, I agree with the other guys. OEM is always the way to go. JustA is right in pointing out that particular aftermarket custom stuff (like Ididit) is for street rods, etc. With OEM, you know it's gonna fit straight up. I've done my time on my GP  rebuild with aftermarket stuff and I think I have finally learnt what the others did years ago!

[Frosty]

Thanks for the input guys!

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing or overlooking something. I've had a lot of the same thoughts all of you had as well.

Two Lane - I may, in time, rebuild the non-tilt column. Right now it has to come out regardless so why not replace it with a nicer tilt? That's my rationale at the moment.

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Justa to satisfy my own curiosity...Would it be possible to post a couple of detailed pics of the threads and the nut...??

[Frosty]

Sure Two Lane. I justa need to find it again. Here it is.....I f'd up the jam nut pretty good too in the process of removing it. I didn't take a picture of the nut. I will have to do that the next time I am at the garage mahal.

[JUSTA6]

27 minutes ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

Justa to satisfy my own curiosity...Would it be possible to post a couple of detailed pics of the threads and the nut...??

Careful you Justa might get whatcha asked for.   Good Night whatta mess.  Not worth welding and retapping those threads.😟

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Yeah..It is in pretty bad shape...But..There is another option besides welding up the shaft and rethreading....That may work really well...

You might be able to "pin" the nut and shaft...What I mean by that is...If when the steering wheel is seated all the down..If It is even with the top of the spline...There is still some threads left right above the spline...There also appears to be a couple of threads left at the top of the shaft..

First thing to do would be to file down the high spot where the threads are gaulded up... To the point to where it is even or justa below the circumference of the shaft being really careful not to hit the the existing threads at the top of of the shaft...Use a thread file ...To carefully straighten out the few threads at the top of the shaft... justa be really careful take your time and pay close attention....Once you get the top threads straightened out enough to where a nut will start...Take your time and check and double check that the nut is starting on the shaft straight...Once that is accomplished...Use the thread file to clean up what is left of the threads above the spline...Then carefully run the nut down until it bottoms out against the spline...Don't use any unnecessary excessive force when snugging the nut..Carefully...Take the nut back off..The put the steering wheel back on the spline insuring that it is clocked right...(you will only have one shot to get it right) Then carefully run the nut down against the wheel...Once that is done...Use the proper sized drill bit..for a 1/8 (.125) split roll pin...Then drill a hole with the center line between the shaft and the nut..Once that is done drive the pin into the hole and cut it off even.. It doesn't matter if there are no threads contacting the inside of the nut all the way down just as long as the remaining threads Above the spline are still intact...The Roll pin will effectively hold everything tightly together and keep the nut/shaft as one unit..Forever.. If you ever need to remove the steering wheel again you can drill the pin out...and everything (nut) will come back off just like before...

That is an option...if you really don't want to remove/replace the steering column...

Firm believer that anything can be fixed if your in a desperate situation...And there are absolutely no other options available.... Justa thought I would mention it...🤔 If for nothing else but entertainment purposes...

TLBT..

Edited December 9, 2021 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[64 kiwi boni]

3 hours ago, Frosty said:

Sure Two Lane. I justa need to find it again. Here it is.....I f'd up the jam nut pretty good too in the process of removing it. I didn't take a picture of the nut. I will have to do that the next time I am at the garage mahal.

my thought is simple, i could not ever drive my car knowing that this thread is not 100%  i would pull the shaft and get a another one from the wreckers 

[Last Indian]

Actually that’s pretty easy to salvage. On or off the car, but it sounds like the snow cone wants a tilt wheel?! Am I right? Go t to run, but I’ll give instructions as to how to fix it like new, and there are several option to it!

Edited December 9, 2021 by Last Indian

[Frosty]

Snow cone? Not sure if I should be insulted or be proud of that snarky remark? LOL! Thanks a lot Two Lane - I think (wise acre)!

I have given some thought about pulling the column and repairing it or replacing it with a much cheaper non-tilt unit. Since I need to pull the column regardless to repair or replace it, I figure I can have a nicer column at this point in time and either fix it myself or send it off to be repaired at my leisure after the fact.

I find your shaft/nut/roll pin idea very intriguing. It's something I definitely need to file away for future use. Thanks for that. That is something I had not considered at all.

[Fitzy]

That thread looks seriously screwed - how on earth did you manage to do that? I consider myself a Master Of Screwing Things Up, but not even I could make a mess like that.

[Last Indian]

Snow cone was a complement! You know go to a fair everybody wants a snow cone! Refreshing, sweet & you have to give them your full attention or they’ll drip all over you! Dah!

Off the car is easy, dismantle the column, pull the shaft. Chuck it up in a lathe. Cut the end of the shaft off at the spline. Drill a hole in the shaft about 1/2 inch deep, with a wall thickness from the bottom of the V of the spline of .100 on each side. So for example if the diameter at the bottom of the V is say .500 the hole size you would drill a .3125 diameter hole as that is the closes standard size reamer you could get. A stub piece would then be machined. The stub would be a step piece, the small end would be .450 long and .313 to .3134 in diameter. With the large end being about .050 larger in diameter than the diameter needed to make a new threaded end. To insert the stub piece into the shaft you need to heat the end of the shaft to about 500 F and put the stub end in either the freezer or dry ice. Once this is done you’ll never get it out, they are, as we say married to each other. Now you turn down the larger end down to the correct size & threaded. 
On the car repair. You need a steady hand a set of calipers or mics a good file. Carefully file in a round fashion the galled threads down to the next O.D. size to run a high quality adjustable die over this new diameter. You will need to keep measuring the size of the area you are filing in multiple positions to keep it as close as possible to round as you can, but the adjustable die will help you compensate for out of roundness. If you decide to do this let me know and we can discuss further.

As far as the tilt column goes definitely the OEM. There will be a lot of nuance that may not be in the aftermarket piece. Like the channel that runs the length of the column for the plastic sleeve that houses the wire harness. The clip setup the holds interface of the column wires and the firewall harness. JustA my two cents!

[Frosty]

4 hours ago, Fitzy said:

That thread looks seriously screwed - how on earth did you manage to do that? I consider myself a Master Of Screwing Things Up, but not even I could make a mess like that.

I wish I knew Fitzy. I was test fitting a new steering wheel collar for the Formula steering wheel at the time. I had taken the dash in and out so many times in the past year that I had scratched up the old one pretty badly. I went to take the jam nut off and I discovered I had "magically" cross threaded it somehow putting it on. It was so badly cross threaded that my 1/2" drive socket wrench would not get it off, it would not budge even with my back into it. I was forced to use my 1/2" Porter electric impact gun to get it off. That jam nut was hot to the touch when it came off!!!! I'm pretty sure using the impact gun really helped to screw up the threads even more!

[Fitzy]

Oh, so as you were sliding the dash in & out, it was dragging along the thread? Yeah, that'll do it. Threads are temperamental buggers: if treated properly they work beautifully. One little compromise and if you're unlucky, it's all over. I should be touching some wood as I say this, but I am yet to ruin a spark plug thread. I could think of no less a harrowing scenario as that: oh the tears I would shed as I leaned into the engine bay and sobbed uncontrollably.

[Frosty]

Not quite no. I was dragging the dash in and out onto the steering column and the collar of the steering wheel. So the collar got scratched and damaged. I purchased an exact replacement collar for the Formula wheel. I put the collar onto the steering column and spun down the nut. Like I said, I have no idea how I buggered it up and cross threaded it. I"m still pissed at myself for that.

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

It's all good...Sometimes Shit just happens....

[Frosty]

Thanks Two Lane - I know it does. Still it doesn't make you feel any better when it happens to you....

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Yeah it does suck for sure..

The exact same same thing (cross threaded castle nut) happened To me recently when I ruined a new trailer axle spindle...By the time I realized what was happening ...It was  too late...The damage had already been done...

Edited December 10, 2021 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[JUSTA6]

Everyone thats turned a wrench has done it.   Always hand start a nut or bolt.

[64 kiwi boni]

Yip I will put my hand up here too !!!

it gets to a point when you can feel that thread is not right, you don’t even have to be looking at it !! So frosty we all have been there done that mate 👍👍

And I play with bsp brass threads every day !!! 

[Frosty]

Thanks for the moral support guys. 

[Last Indian]

Yup! It can happen. There are some tricks to starting threads. Most of them you can learn from a machinist hand book.