1964 Bonneville convertable restore

[64 kiwi boni]

3 hours ago, Wrongway said:

Hummmm, your 64s and 65s had them. I wonder If my 63' had one? I didn't see any wires or marks. I'll have to look closer, there kinda cool.

mate if it had one you will find a cradle that it sat in 

[Frosty]

Still Wrongway that is no reason why you can add one to your ride. Just collect the necessary pieces and add it in. Also perhaps an LED bulb is now available to replace the old incandescent bulb too. 

[Bonneville convertable64]

The light purchased on eBay came in today. It looks great. 

[Bonneville convertable64]

I noticed in the brochure for upgrades the oil pressure and temp gauge was an option. I was able to find them on ebay. I’m looking forward to installing them. Does anyone know if there is a special sending unit for them or do they use the same one that trips the warning light?

[64 kiwi boni]

11 minutes ago, Bonneville convertable64 said:

I noticed in the brochure for upgrades the oil pressure and temp gauge was an option. I was able to find them on ebay. I’m looking forward to installing them. Does anyone know if there is a special sending unit for them or do they use the same one that trips the warning light?

Del that’s a great score !! 

I would expect you will need to get a correct resistance temp sender unit and oil pressure unit ... all you have to do is find out the ohms range 

but I wouldn’t know where you would find that information ,,,,,, frosty !!!! Help !!! 

[64 kiwi boni]

Del, page 148 of the ames catalog has the sender units, justA not sure what is meant by "rally gauges"   

Edited January 2, 2022 by 64 kiwi boni

[64 kiwi boni]

only question i have with these , is where do you put your fuel gauge if you swap the set out ????

[64 kiwi boni]

i found this and it may help you 👍...........

 

 

 

You have a very rare set of gauges. The hook-ups are the same for either a '63 or '64 car. The only difference in the gauges is that the '63 set uses a 80 pound oil pressure gauge whereas the '64 uses a 60 pound oil pressure gauge.

Here is my two cents, for what it is worth on the oil transducer. I will give some input for you on the '63 package and hopefully help out BigAquaBonney on his earlier posted question on the '64 gauge package for a part number. Here you go.....

I have done a considerable amount of research on both the oil pressure transducers used from 1963 through 1967. I needed to do this because I have two 63's and one 64 gauge packages (installed in individual dash pods) and was tired of getting "the pegging" results that many see when an aftermarket transducer is used. Others may have been sucessful in finding matches, I have not.

I will start with the early ones.

The 1963 full-size oil pressure sending unit, is an "AC" unit that is stamped 80 lbs., and is actually GM Part # 1506251. (See picture below). Later 63's were also "AC" units and were stamped with the P/N and 80 lbs., (some of the earlier "AC" units only had the 80 lbs. stamped on them.) In all my years of searching, the 80 lbs. indication was always stamped. In 1963, Vulcan Motor Products out of Newark, NJ also made an aftermarket replacement sending unit, OPV-9. The insulator tended to crack on these if they were over-tightened - you can still find some of these around but be very careful as some cracked ones were most likely returned when the installer inadvertently over-tightened them. You will not get a correct reading on them if they have a cracked insulator. In the past, I have seen pricing on the original '63 "AC" units in the $100 plus range for each. It was the first year for the "pontiac gauge package" and these units are getting harder and harder to find.The Vulcan units have been priced in the $40 plus range. I haven't seen them on ebay in the last year or so. But, I will check my storage cabinent. I may have a few spares of each and might consider selling some of them. Please do not bombard me with requests, when I find them I will let you know. I think I also have spare 63 and 64 gauge packages too. But, I need to check.

The 1964 full-size oil pressure sending unit, stamped 60 lbs., is GM Part # 1506191. It has both the P/N and 60 lbs. stamped on them. Pricing on these original '64 "AC" units also in the $100 plus range for each.

Although the 1963 through 1966 full-size oil pressure sending units may look identical to other AC units, they are internally different. From an old GM "Electrical" handbook, I found out the following: All 1963 through 1966 "Full Size" sending units had a maximum resistance of 31 ohms at full pressure (80 or 60 pounds - the gauges' dial resistances are different allowing for a 80 lbs gauge in the 1963 pod and a 60 lbs gauge in the 1964 pod and so on). This is different from a 1965 through 1966 "GTO" and 1967 and Up all Pontiac models sending unit as they had a maximum resistance of 93 ohms (All the pontiac catalogs including PY and AMES sell these.) One can not use a current GM replacement or aftermarket 1967 and UP 80 pound unit for the 1963 through 1966 "Full-size" Pontiacs as the oil pressure gauge will peg (based upon the resistance of the gauge) at only 20 or 26 pounds of actual oil pressure.

Now lets talk about wiring.The temperature and oil pressure transducers are shown in the pictures below. The temperature transducer get the green wire wheras the oil transducer gets the blue wire. The faded red wire (pink) is 12 V switched power source.

When installing your sensors, the oil transducer also get a 45 degree brass elbow. Do not use teflon tape on either of the transducers as they were meant to be grounded to get the proper readings.

I have shown the gauge package set as installed in my '63 - 421 Catalina Convertible.

[Bonneville convertable64]

38 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

only question i have with these , is where do you put your fuel gauge if you swap the set out ????

Not sure. It could be a good problem to have meaning the gauges work in the first place. I will need to think about it.

[Bonneville convertable64]

43 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

i found this and it may help you 👍...........

 

 

 

You have a very rare set of gauges. The hook-ups are the same for either a '63 or '64 car. The only difference in the gauges is that the '63 set uses a 80 pound oil pressure gauge whereas the '64 uses a 60 pound oil pressure gauge.

Here is my two cents, for what it is worth on the oil transducer. I will give some input for you on the '63 package and hopefully help out BigAquaBonney on his earlier posted question on the '64 gauge package for a part number. Here you go.....

I have done a considerable amount of research on both the oil pressure transducers used from 1963 through 1967. I needed to do this because I have two 63's and one 64 gauge packages (installed in individual dash pods) and was tired of getting "the pegging" results that many see when an aftermarket transducer is used. Others may have been sucessful in finding matches, I have not.

I will start with the early ones.

The 1963 full-size oil pressure sending unit, is an "AC" unit that is stamped 80 lbs., and is actually GM Part # 1506251. (See picture below). Later 63's were also "AC" units and were stamped with the P/N and 80 lbs., (some of the earlier "AC" units only had the 80 lbs. stamped on them.) In all my years of searching, the 80 lbs. indication was always stamped. In 1963, Vulcan Motor Products out of Newark, NJ also made an aftermarket replacement sending unit, OPV-9. The insulator tended to crack on these if they were over-tightened - you can still find some of these around but be very careful as some cracked ones were most likely returned when the installer inadvertently over-tightened them. You will not get a correct reading on them if they have a cracked insulator. In the past, I have seen pricing on the original '63 "AC" units in the $100 plus range for each. It was the first year for the "pontiac gauge package" and these units are getting harder and harder to find.The Vulcan units have been priced in the $40 plus range. I haven't seen them on ebay in the last year or so. But, I will check my storage cabinent. I may have a few spares of each and might consider selling some of them. Please do not bombard me with requests, when I find them I will let you know. I think I also have spare 63 and 64 gauge packages too. But, I need to check.

The 1964 full-size oil pressure sending unit, stamped 60 lbs., is GM Part # 1506191. It has both the P/N and 60 lbs. stamped on them. Pricing on these original '64 "AC" units also in the $100 plus range for each.

Although the 1963 through 1966 full-size oil pressure sending units may look identical to other AC units, they are internally different. From an old GM "Electrical" handbook, I found out the following: All 1963 through 1966 "Full Size" sending units had a maximum resistance of 31 ohms at full pressure (80 or 60 pounds - the gauges' dial resistances are different allowing for a 80 lbs gauge in the 1963 pod and a 60 lbs gauge in the 1964 pod and so on). This is different from a 1965 through 1966 "GTO" and 1967 and Up all Pontiac models sending unit as they had a maximum resistance of 93 ohms (All the pontiac catalogs including PY and AMES sell these.) One can not use a current GM replacement or aftermarket 1967 and UP 80 pound unit for the 1963 through 1966 "Full-size" Pontiacs as the oil pressure gauge will peg (based upon the resistance of the gauge) at only 20 or 26 pounds of actual oil pressure.

Now lets talk about wiring.The temperature and oil pressure transducers are shown in the pictures below. The temperature transducer get the green wire wheras the oil transducer gets the blue wire. The faded red wire (pink) is 12 V switched power source.

When installing your sensors, the oil transducer also get a 45 degree brass elbow. Do not use teflon tape on either of the transducers as they were meant to be grounded to get the proper readings.

I have shown the gauge package set as installed in my '63 - 421 Catalina Convertible.

What an incredibly helpful batch of information! Thank you so much! We are well on our way to discovering  the mysteries of the ‘64 Bonneville. This will need to go into my future book “The travels of 1964 Bonneville”. When the car is solid enough, my son and I plan to travel 3,000 miles back to California where we first bought her. We will have it shipped back since one way is daring enough. After that we will have plenty to fill the pages. Of course your going in the book my friend!

Edited January 2, 2022 by Bonneville convertable64

[Bonneville convertable64]

Photo of the transmission and motor just purchased. It is still mounted to the transmission. I suggested that so no damage could occur or parts lost. It looks to be an aluminum trans case. Gene, transmission expert, said they are rare. This makes my 4th one.

[64 kiwi boni]

now thats a great score!!!👍

[64 kiwi boni]

29 minutes ago, Bonneville convertable64 said:

Not sure. It could be a good problem to have meaning the gauges work in the first place. I will need to think about it.

my research suggest that you will need to score a 64 grand prix or bonneville 4 door speedo, it will have the charge and gas gauges in the main speedo, then its justA matter of moving the existing wires over to them, and use the tell tail oil and temp wires too you new gauges, change the 2 transducers/ sender units and your done!!

[Bonneville convertable64]

40 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

my research suggest that you will need to score a 64 grand prix or bonneville 4 door speedo, it will have the charge and gas gauges in the main speedo, then its justA matter of moving the existing wires over to them, and use the tell tail oil and temp wires too you new gauges, change the 2 transducers/ sender units and your done!!

Good idea. I actually have one but its not as nice as the non ac cluster.

[64 kiwi boni]

1 hour ago, Bonneville convertable64 said:

Good idea. I actually have one but its not as nice as the non ac cluster.

you can pull them apart!, i did to replace my cracked lens, and i gave it a good clean out while it was apart  

[Bonneville convertable64]

Just visited my engine builder. I had to drop off valve covers before rebuilt engine gets paint. It looks great. He said he had to tap the rocker studs which then calls for different rockers. It should be ready for pickup tomorrow!

[Bonneville convertable64]

The turn signal switch on the steering column was bad. It diverts power so if it doesn’t work correctly the brake lights won’t work. It took me a while to figure out why the brake lights were intermittent. The replacement is only available for tilt wheel. All you have to do is transfer the black switch mechanism over to original bracket. Two bendable metal tabs make for an easy swap. All good now. After inspecting the old one I believe it could have been cleaned and repaired in a pinch. Happy to have a new one now.

[64 kiwi boni]

3 hours ago, Bonneville convertable64 said:

The turn signal switch on the steering column was bad. It diverts power so if it doesn’t work correctly the brake lights won’t work. It took me a while to figure out why the brake lights were intermittent. The replacement is only available for tilt wheel. All you have to do is transfer the black switch mechanism over to original bracket. Two bendable metal tabs make for an easy swap. All good now. After inspecting the old one I believe it could have been cleaned and repaired in a pinch. Happy to have a new one now.

Yes mate 

it’s a simple slide switch inside 

I pulled mine apart and cleaned it 

where did you find a new one ? 

[Bonneville convertable64]

2 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Yes mate 

it’s a simple slide switch inside 

I pulled mine apart and cleaned it 

where did you find a new one ? 

Rockauto 

[Frosty]

Damn - I'm behind on this thread. So Kiwi, what was your question for me?

[64 kiwi boni]

here is our question frosty .......

I would expect you will need to get a correct resistance temp sender unit and oil pressure unit ... all you have to do is find out the ohms range 

but I wouldn’t know where you would find that information ,,,,,, frosty !!!! Help !!! 

 

Del has the "rally Gauges, but where would you find the correct sender unit for them frosty ?

[Bonneville convertable64]

1 hour ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

here is our question frosty .......

I would expect you will need to get a correct resistance temp sender unit and oil pressure unit ... all you have to do is find out the ohms range 

but I wouldn’t know where you would find that information ,,,,,, frosty !!!! Help !!! 

 

Del has the "rally Gauges, but where would you find the correct sender unit for them frosty ?

The article you sent me said it takes 60# 30ohm sender. No one seems to have the 60# but the 80# 30ohm will work to a degree. You would need to calculate the difference when viewing the gauge. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Bonneville convertable64

[64 kiwi boni]

4 hours ago, Bonneville convertable64 said:

The article you sent me said it takes 60# 30ohm sender. No one seems to have the 60# but the 80# 30ohm will work to a degree. You would need to calculate the difference when viewing the gauge. 

are you talking about the oil pressure sender ? as they had a 60psi and 80psi from what i have read..... 

ten bucks says that pontiworld in oz has them!!! 

[Frosty]

Del - quick question before I go off and do my homework assignment from Kiwi. This is a factory correct 1964 gauge pod that you purchased, correct? It is not from another year is it? It makes a difference as the mid-sixties GM changed the ohm resistance on these gauges, as you know.

[Bonneville convertable64]

3 hours ago, Frosty said:

Del - quick question before I go off and do my homework assignment from Kiwi. This is a factory correct 1964 gauge pod that you purchased, correct? It is not from another year is it? It makes a difference as the mid-sixties GM changed the ohm resistance on these gauges, as you know.

The 1964 full-size oil pressure sending unit, stamped 60 lbs., is GM Part # 1506191 or 6460468. It has both the P/N and 60 lbs. stamped on them. Pricing on these original '64 "AC" units also in the $100 plus range for each.

Although the 1963 through 1966 full-size oil pressure sending units may look identical to other AC units, they are internally different. From an old GM "Electrical" handbook, I found out the following: All 1963 through 1966 "Full Size" sending units had a maximum resistance of 31 ohms at full pressure (80 or 60 pounds - the gauges' dial resistances are different allowing for a 80 lbs gauge in the 1963 pod and a 60 lbs gauge in the 1964 pod and so on). This is different from a 1965 through 1966 "GTO" and 1967 and Up all Pontiac models sending unit as they had a maximum resistance of 93 ohms (All the pontiac catalogs including PY and AMES sell these.) One can not use a current GM replacement or aftermarket 1967 and UP 80 pound unit for the 1963 through 1966 "Full-size" Pontiacs as the oil pressure gauge will peg (based upon the resistance of the gauge) at only 20 or 26 pounds of actual oil pressure.

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Bonneville convertable64