Catalina 1969 with 428 Engine - Temperature Range

[Fabio Parede]

What is the correct range of temperature for a Catalina with 428 engine? I´m a little bit concearned about it and I didnt find this information. Thanks in advance

[Last Indian]

54 minutes ago, Fabio Parede said:

What is the correct range of temperature for a Catalina with 428 engine? I´m a little bit concearned about it and I didnt find this information. Thanks in advance

I presume you are referring to coolant temperature? If so this temperature can normally run between 160 Fahrenheit & 220 Fahrenheit, but 220 on the high  end! I would not recommend running any extended period time at that temperature. A better choice of temperature range would be 160 to 190. There are a whole lot of variables that can apply depending on what kind of performance you’re looking for.

[Fabio Parede]

My car is runnig up to 210 F when in trasit. Sometimes increases. On the road, up to 60 mph about 170-180 F. I have a brand new radiator, a new water pump (Like original 11 bolts and cast impeler), a thermostat for 180 F (but not for high volume), original pulley, shroud in place, fresh new coolant, 16 lbs radiator cap. I tested the temperature indicator and its ok.

I have a Holley 0-80555C 650CFM Spread Bore Electric Choke Vacuum Secondaries

I don´t know where to look first. I´ll appreciate any help

[Last Indian]

22 minutes ago, Fabio Parede said:

My car is runnig up to 210 F when in trasit. Sometimes increases. On the road, up to 60 mph about 170-180 F. I have a brand new radiator, a new water pump (Like original 11 bolts and cast impeler), a thermostat for 180 F (but not for high volume), original pulley, shroud in place, fresh new coolant, 16 lbs radiator cap. I tested the temperature indicator and its ok.

I have a Holley 0-80555C 650CFM Spread Bore Electric Choke Vacuum Secondaries

I don´t know where to look first. I´ll appreciate any help

A couple thoughts. First it may be the fan. You should run a 7 blade fan on a clutch thermostat housing that mounts to the water pump hub. By your description it sounds that the system cools properly when moving enough air through the radiator. The fan I described will make a huge improvement at low speeds & help to pull down temperature when temperatures rise above the set point of the thermostat clutch housing. Also how many rows is the radiator? A larger radiator, like a 4 row may help as well, but I would start with the fan & clutch housing.

[JUSTA6]

Also need to ask if you have a fan shroud in place.  Agree with LastIndian and also have a 7 blade fan on my 421. 

[Frosty]

To help improve coolant flow, I run a Wide Mouth thermostat from Mr. Gasket in my 455. As Last Indian and Justa stated above, I also run the thermostatic controlled clutch fan and the stock factory fan shroud. It handles freeway, and parade duty very well. I also have a stock 4-core radiator.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Frosty

[Fitzy]

I'll never get over the discovery of factory 'blocked' coolant passages when I tore my engine down. It must have made the engine run hot because someone had removed the thermostat altogether in an attempt to help it run cooler.

Since the unblocking of those passages, an engine rebuild, a FlowKooler water pump, 7 blade clutch fan and rebuilt heavy duty crossflow radiator, car runs bang on 180 where it's supposed to be.

Is it worth having someone professionally clean the coolant passages? I found LOTS of crud in mine.

[64 kiwi boni]

29 minutes ago, Fitzy said:

I'll never get over the discovery of factory 'blocked' coolant passages when I tore my engine down. It must have made the engine run hot because someone had removed the thermostat altogether in an attempt to help it run cooler.

Since the unblocking of those passages, an engine rebuild, a FlowKooler water pump, 7 blade clutch fan and rebuilt heavy duty crossflow radiator, car runs bang on 180 where it's supposed to be.

Is it worth having someone professionally clean the coolant passages? I found LOTS of crud in mine.

i am with Fitzy on this one !! even though i didnt dig deep into my 389, i did find blocked passages, so my thought would be a block flush first ! we all know how age blocks our passages !!! 

 Fabio, your justA going to have to go through the whole system i feel my friend 

Edited August 3, 2023 by 64 kiwi boni

[Fabio Parede]

9 hours ago, Last Indian said:

A couple thoughts. First it may be the fan. You should run a 7 blade fan on a clutch thermostat housing that mounts to the water pump hub. By your description it sounds that the system cools properly when moving enough air through the radiator. The fan I described will make a huge improvement at low speeds & help to pull down temperature when temperatures rise above the set point of the thermostat clutch housing. Also how many rows is the radiator? A larger radiator, like a 4 row may help as well, but I would start with the fan & clutch housing.

Thanks Man. My Fan is a 7 blade, 18 inch total size.

Yes, shroud in place. Radiador original rebuild.

[64 kiwi boni]

7 minutes ago, Fabio Parede said:

Thanks Man. My Fan is a 7 blade, 18 inch total size.

Yes, shroud in place. Radiador original rebuild.

Fabio 

show us some  pictures of your fan to shroud set up . 
And have you had the thermostat out and tested it ? 

[Fabio Parede]

9 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Fabio 

show us some  pictures of your fan to shroud set up . 
And have you had the thermostat out and tested it ? 

I have anothers doubts:

My Shroud appears to be original. My fan appears to be from Mopar (Dodge Dart) 7 blades and 18 inches.

My water pump pulley has 8" and the main pulley (from crankshaft) is about 6 1/2". Is That correct? Because with this configuration the water pump will rotate less than the motor. I´m correct?

I have a A/C Non Original installed but not working. Only the hoses conected, no gas, no compressor belt, no electrical power to the vent inside the car. Those hoses get very hot when the engine works. Can I eliminate that hoses? I have no intention to put A/C to work (I think I will increase even more temperature)

I did not tested the Thermostat, its a "normal" 180 F (not high flow)

Any suggestions?

Thank you guys

Edited August 3, 2023 by Fabio Parede

[64 kiwi boni]

is it justA me , or does that fan look little in that shroud ? 

Fabio, how much room is there from the end of the blades to the shroud ? that will cvertainly be loosing flow through the radiator at low speed.

[Last Indian]

3 hours ago, Fabio Parede said:

I have anothers doubts:

My Shroud appears to be original. My fan appears to be from Mopar (Dodge Dart) 7 blades and 18 inches.

My water pump pulley has 8" and the main pulley (from crankshaft) is about 6 1/2". Is That correct? Because with this configuration the water pump will rotate less than the motor. I´m correct?

I have a A/C Non Original installed but not working. Only the hoses conected, no gas, no compressor belt, no electrical power to the vent inside the car. Those hoses get very hot when the engine works. Can I eliminate that hoses? I have no intention to put A/C to work (I think I will increase even more temperature)

I did not tested the Thermostat, its a "normal" 180 F (not high flow)

Any suggestions?

Thank you guys

Fabio, the pulley should be the stock 6” not 8” that slower speed could easily cause a lack of cooling at lower speeds. The shroud & fan blades are wrong, as Kiwi indicated. There needs to be only about a 1/4 “ to 1/2 “ gap between the blade tips & the shroud edge. Also, the Mopar fan might work in Dodges setup, but it’s no good for yours. You need a straight blade fan to one with bent tips. See attached photo.  
I don’t think you have blockage because it cools at higher speeds when you are move air through the radiator. I think, the fan issue, the shroud to fan issue & the  pulley size, are all combining to cause the problem.

2 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

is it justA me , or does that fan look little in that shroud ? 

Fabio, how much room is there from the end of the blades to the shroud ? that will cvertainly be loosing flow through the radiator at low speed.

No it’s not you! 

[64 kiwi boni]

and that was the clue!! fabio.... you said the engine temp runs good at highway speeds... sooo.

its air flow. not anything else .

last indian is thinking like i am, mechanical air flow through a radiator with a fan needs a shroud that is as close as you can get, blade to the tunnel relationship so to speak  , not only to the radiator but the the shroud ... air will be flying off the ends of each of those blades and loose effective flow big time !.. this is for slow speed running ,,, and if its not flowing .... the temp goes up ! super easy if you thing about air flow ...

[Fabio Parede]

12 hours ago, Last Indian said:

Fabio, the pulley should be the stock 6” not 8” that slower speed could easily cause a lack of cooling at lower speeds. The shroud & fan blades are wrong, as Kiwi indicated. There needs to be only about a 1/4 “ to 1/2 “ gap between the blade tips & the shroud edge. Also, the Mopar fan might work in Dodges setup, but it’s no good for yours. You need a straight blade fan to one with bent tips. See attached photo.  
I don’t think you have blockage because it cools at higher speeds when you are move air through the radiator. I think, the fan issue, the shroud to fan issue & the  pulley size, are all combining to cause the problem.

No it’s not you! 

Hey Man, thanks again. For now, I will change the Fan and the water pump pulley. 

Is my Shroud the correct one?

One again, thank you so much

Edited August 4, 2023 by Fabio Parede

[Fabio Parede]

4 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

and that was the clue!! fabio.... you said the engine temp runs good at highway speeds... sooo.

its air flow. not anything else .

last indian is thinking like i am, mechanical air flow through a radiator with a fan needs a shroud that is as close as you can get, blade to the tunnel relationship so to speak  , not only to the radiator but the the shroud ... air will be flying off the ends of each of those blades and loose effective flow big time !.. this is for slow speed running ,,, and if its not flowing .... the temp goes up ! super easy if you thing about air flow ...

Thank you man. I will start changing the fan blade for one bigger and with flta blades like last indian said, and change the water pump pulley. 

[Last Indian]

Fabio, what is the diameter of the shroud hole where the fan sits? And what is the distance from the water pump hub face to the beginning edge of that hole?

Edited August 4, 2023 by Last Indian

[Fabio Parede]

22 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

is it justA me , or does that fan look little in that shroud ? 

Fabio, how much room is there from the end of the blades to the shroud ? that will cvertainly be loosing flow through the radiator at low speed.

Almost 2". Actually I use a 18" blade and I think 20" will not fit.

1 minute ago, Last Indian said:

Fabio, what is the diameter of the shroud hole where the fan sits. 

Almost 20. But I think a 20" blade will not fit. A put a kind of paper At mine blade increasing 1" and 2". For more 1 (19" total) is ok. For 2" no.

[Last Indian]

5 minutes ago, Fabio Parede said:

Almost 2". Actually I use a 18" blade and I think 20" will not fit.

Almost 20. But I think a 20" blade will not fit. A put a kind of paper At mine blade increasing 1" and 2". For more 1 (19" total) is ok. For 2" no.

Ok, one step at a time. First change the pulley to the 6” & see what change that makes. If it is enough you could stop there, although if it were mine I would put the GM 18” fan blade with the clutch in as that type design does a better job of pulling air when needed, but decouples when not needed.
If that change doesn’t prove to be enough than we can talk about what you might do next.

[Fabio Parede]

On 8/4/2023 at 3:57 PM, Last Indian said:

Ok, one step at a time. First change the pulley to the 6” & see what change that makes. If it is enough you could stop there, although if it were mine I would put the GM 18” fan blade with the clutch in as that type design does a better job of pulling air when needed, but decouples when not needed.
If that change doesn’t prove to be enough than we can talk about what you might do next.

Hello guys. Good news. I Changed the water pump pulley from 8" to 6" like you suggested and turn on the car. The car temperature now, stopped, it´s about 88 celsius 190 F. Ouside temperaure about 86 F. Temperature almost dont changed for about 15 min with the car parked. I think the problem were solved.

Now I´ll change the blade for a GM 18" with clutch to improve more.

I DON´T HAVE WORDS TO THANK YOU GUYS FOR THE HELP, INFORMATIONS AND PACIENCE.

[Last Indian]

6 hours ago, Fabio Parede said:

Hello guys. Good news. I Changed the water pump pulley from 8" to 6" like you suggested and turn on the car. The car temperature now, stopped, it´s about 88 celsius 190 F. Ouside temperaure about 86 F. Temperature almost dont changed for about 15 min with the car parked. I think the problem were solved.

Now I´ll change the blade for a GM 18" with clutch to improve more.

I DON´T HAVE WORDS TO THANK YOU GUYS FOR THE HELP, INFORMATIONS AND PACIENCE.

That is good news Fabio! Glad to here it.

[JUSTA6]

Glad your here, we have many knowledgeable people here to figure out most probs.