labor unions

[[ChaosweaveR]]

How dare you copy my astonishing words of wisdom without proper copyright approvals.

[notallthere]

3 B's strike again

[havoc1482]

' timestamp='1333410977' post='69640']

How dare you copy my astonishing words of wisdom without proper copyright approvals.

Oh don't worry. I have a Work Cited page that includes the URL to this thread. I would never dare think about not giving you credit oh great Chris of Long Island.

[Frosty]

Naming co-conspirator's in the "plagarism" suit Havoc ?!?!?!

That's too funny !

[havoc1482]

I quoted this post by Chris because it was exactly how I was going to put it. Bad rep based on poor quality that stemmed from the UAW meddling in ways it shouldn't have.

The UAW destroyed GM's quality factor over the decades. Demanding high pay for such unskilled labor, and more worried over their benefits and pay, versus actually making a good, well made product. GMs from the 80's and 90's suffered horribly in quality, one of GM's bad reputations they're still trying to overturn today. Despite GM making wonderful new cars, people still have the mindset of those horrid cars decades ago, and will not want a domestic

I then copy and pasted my own post about the fair labor of the middle class being expedited. lol

I guess I'm a bad student for using resources

[[ChaosweaveR]]

That's lame.

[havoc1482]

Reviving this thread because I'm writing a research paper about this topic for English101

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk 2

[[ChaosweaveR]]

COPYRIGHTING, COPYRIGHT COPYRIGHTIONS.

[havoc1482]

' timestamp='1352996005' post='76535']COPYRIGHTING, COPYRIGHT COPYRIGHTIONS.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk 2

[Frosty]

So what is the theme or topic this time around?

[havoc1482]

The theme is similar to the paper I wrote in highschool. Along the lines of are labor unions really all that great these days. I have to argue a point, and that point is that they are not as useful as they were. Using the UAW as an example. I have to write a 6 page paper and I have 2 pages so far. I will be trying to keep it in-line with the automotive industry because it is a subject area that I am familiar with, but my paper will branch into unions in general.

When I wrote this I realised that this should be in the middle of my paper and not at the beginning nor the end haha

The United Auto Workers is the largest automotive labor union in the United States. They have successfully lobbied with Chrysler, General Motors, and Ford Motor Company to achieve their goals for fair working conditions and wages. Their past, however, was not the success story that they had in the early 60’s and 70’s. In the beginning the factories in Detroit had low quality working conditions such as poor safety regulations and precautions for workers. Their wages were not all that great either, getting paid as little a few cents per hour. In the early 20th century labor unions started to pop up all over the industrial cities of America, and Detroit was no exception. The UAW was founded in May of 1935 and set its sights on “The Big Three” in Detroit. After the famous “Sit Downers Strike” of 1936 in Flint, Michigan the UAW had a name for itself and eventually worked its way into General Motors, Chrysler, and eventually Ford to creating labor changes.

The UAW was successful up until the 1970’s. After the OPEC Oil Embargo of 1973, car companies were forced to come up with more fuel efficient cars and change their way of manufacture, this caused a drop in quality and popularity in American cars as we entered the 1980’s. The UAW lost many of its members when it could not successfully unionize foreign car factories in the United States. Also by this time the UAW had so much control of the auto industry that greed had started to set it. General Motors had to spend a large amount of money to convert their factories from producing Rear Wheel Drive to Front Wheel Drive automobiles and implementing new emissions regulations put forth by the Federal government. Despite this, the UAW did not let up obtaining money for itself and its workers. With GM executives worried about the bottom line, factories started to make cheap cars and the labor put in was unskilled. The UAW destroyed GM's quality factor over the next two decades. Demanding high pay for such unskilled labor, and more worried over their benefits and pay, versus actually making a good, well-made product. GM cars from the 80's and 90's suffered horribly in quality, one of GM's bad reputations they're still trying to overturn today. Despite GM making wonderful new cars, people still have the mindset of those horrid cars decades ago, and will not want a domestic brand. Without unions the middle-class would not have grown to what it is today, maybe it would have, but union definitely expedited the process. Without the union and workers voicing their opinions, corrupt bosses would have gone unchecked. In recent years the union has done nothing more than to contribute to the recent trough in the American automotive industry, because as stated previously, greed can work both ways.

I want you guys to critisize the f*ck out of me. I need to expand my paper in as many places as possible lol

[Frosty]

I don't know if this fits in with the theme of your paper, but the state of Michigan is on the verge of becoming a Right-to-Work state. Governor Rick Snyder might see the bill on his desk as early as tomorrow - which he is expected to sign. There was heavy protest by union leaders at the state capitol in Lansing this past week while the House and Senate debated. So this flies in the face of the home of the UAW and other strong unions. However, many see this as a necessary step for Michigan to compete with other states that are already right to work. The local news is quoting 26-29 states are already right to work.

[havoc1482]

I don't know if this fits in with the theme of your paper, but the state of Michigan is on the verge of becoming a Right-to-Work state. Governor Rick Snyder might see the bill on his desk as early as tomorrow - which he is expected to sign. There was heavy protest by union leaders at the state capitol in Lansing this past week while the House and Senate debated. So this flies in the face of the home of the UAW and other strong unions. However, many see this as a necessary step for Michigan to compete with other states that are already right to work. The local news is quoting 26-29 states are already right to work.

Is that similar to the Right To Repair law that just passed here in MA?? The proposed law requiring motor vehicle manufacturers to allow vehicle owners and independent repair facilities in Massachusetts to have access to the same vehicle diagnostic and repair information made available to the manufacturers’ Massachusetts dealers and authorized repair facilities.

[Frosty]

Right to Work means that you do not have to belong to a union to enjoy the benefits of a collective bargaining agreement. It also makes it illiegal to force people to join a union or have a "closed" shop. The Big Three have been essentially "closed" shops after 90 days of employment (as an hourly employee). The change would mean a worker does not have to join the union or pay union dues.

[indymanjoe]

Michigan is now a right to work state.

[JUSTA6]

Michigan is now a right to work state.

I'm ready to move. I will never again support this state by purchasing State park tabs for my L/plates, ORV stickers for my trucks, bike or sleds. Register my toys including the boat and hunting/fishing lisences. = over 400.00 back in my pocket. Snider has now opened the door for all his Chinese bedmates to start buying out Mich business. The Union's control my pension, healthcare and the rest of my life. Snider then taxes my pension, literally 1/4 of my usable income after bills each month. But huge tax breaks to business. Can anybody else see the writing on wall?

[Frosty]

For right or wrong, unions are becoming passe. It bothers me that there will be no more checks and balances against management's latest whim. That's what started the UAW in the first place, mismanagement and strong arm tactics.

[JUSTA6]

For right or wrong, unions are becoming passe. It bothers me that there will be no more checks and balances against management's latest whim. That's what started the UAW in the first place, mismanagement and strong arm tactics.

Guess we'll all find out how "pas-se" unions are. From health care to school systems and everything in between.

[havoc1482]

I picked up my morning paper and during my break at school I sat down with a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich and a coffee and opened up the paper and found this:

So basically from what I read it will loosen the grip of the unions by allowing non-union members to reap certain benefits without having to pay dues?

[Killiger2009]

You just don't have to pay the dues, you have the right to either be part of the union or not. In states with the right the work legislation, the unemployment is the lowest and the worker has the right to choose. the unions have to compete with the private sector and that is why it is a big deal. On a personal note, the unions have way too much power especially in politics and way too much money, back in the day the union was worth having, but now they are out of date and and in it for the money and power. Unions are not needed anymore with all of the laws and legislation in place, the employee is protected....does that answer your question?

[JUSTA6]

Lmao... Quick, move out of your parents house while you still know it all. 1000's of the protesters were police, firefighters, teachers, healthcare. Everyone you depend on to be there when you need them. This was not a vote of the Mich people. This was the work of an outta control Govenor that has no reguard for what the people of this state want. Even issues we were able to vote on, he just goes in the back door anyway. The state stepping in and taking over cities, dismantling fire and police services. Selling off city owned properties such as the Pontiac Silverdome for $500,000 to a private owner and the State appointed city manager has a hand in the company!!!! Not to mention they also shot down a real bid of 20,000,000 that would have went along way in restoring Pontiac. We just voted down State takeovers, so the GOV is poised/threatening to take over Detroit now. Unions are needed more than ever to protect what progress has been made. Working conditions, safety issues. Justa look at the Chinese working conditions. According to your way of thinking, you want to be a racecar driver. But the old thought of wearing safety equipment, and your rollbar and safety features on the car mean nothing because the STATE said it cost too much. This is not democracy in any sense of the word. Does that answer your question?

[Killiger2009]

Fact is the union ships more jobs overseas than the private sector, so jobs lost, and yes sending jobs overseas is good for the economy, but to an extent. The unions take dues and rack them up giving them to their political party leaders the socialist/Marxist democrats who need them. They feed lies to the people and are acting like thugs. This is a great point of how the unions want to take away the RIGHTS of the PEOPLE. The fact that the union thugs tore down the Americans for Prosperity tent is a prime example of how our freedom of speech is being taken away. Why not have the freedom to decide whether you should be part of the union or not. This is a classic example of how our rights are being taken away. If you want a job that requires a union and you do not want to join them, then guess what, you don't get the job. This law takes that away and further more the 7 states with the lowest unemployment are all Right to Work states. There is competition, which is what a capitalist society strives off of. The unions want to be the monopoly, they basically are the invisible monopoly and want complete control, this bill takes that away and more private sector jobs will come right on in and create jobs. Here's an example, in Northern VA, art teachers get paid 70-73,000 a year....WTF a damn art teacher does not need to make that much let alone 50,000 teaching 5th graders how to make a clay bowl. A teacher goes to school knowing they are not going to be paid a whole lot, they want their summers off and a a somewhat easy going job. That money comes out of our pockets and that is where the democratic party strives off of the union. Their is so much legislation and regulations from the government to make the safety regulations, and most are outrageous and do nothing but make people pay more taxes. The unions have nothing to do with all the safety, it's the government regulations. The unions are not needed anymore they have overstayed their welcome. If you want unions run by the government, go to China, North Korea or any other communist country and live over there for a month, hell i'll buy your plane ticket, this isn't freedom, this is regulation strangulation of the Constitution.

[havoc1482]

For you Chris, here is my Works Cited

Wolak, Michael F. (havoc1482), [ChaosweaveR], Ringo64, Frosty, Justa6, Killiger2009, Notallthere, and Ghost.

Forever Pontiac. 20 Mar. 2012. Labor Unions Discussion. Web

[Killiger2009]

I think for MLA you have to add in there after date Web. http://foreverpontiac.com/topic/3350-labor-unions/page__st__40 i think

[JUSTA6]

Fact is the union ships more jobs overseas than the private sector, so jobs lost, and yes sending jobs overseas is good for the economy, but to an extent. The unions take dues and rack them up giving them to their political party leaders the socialist/Marxist democrats who need them. They feed lies to the people and are acting like thugs. This is a great point of how the unions want to take away the RIGHTS of the PEOPLE. The fact that the union thugs tore down the Americans for Prosperity tent is a prime example of how our freedom of speech is being taken away. Why not have the freedom to decide whether you should be part of the union or not. This is a classic example of how our rights are being taken away. If you want a job that requires a union and you do not want to join them, then guess what, you don't get the job. This law takes that away and further more the 7 states with the lowest unemployment are all Right to Work states. There is competition, which is what a capitalist society strives off of. The unions want to be the monopoly, they basically are the invisible monopoly and want complete control, this bill takes that away and more private sector jobs will come right on in and create jobs. Here's an example, in Northern VA, art teachers get paid 70-73,000 a year....WTF a damn art teacher does not need to make that much let alone 50,000 teaching 5th graders how to make a clay bowl. A teacher goes to school knowing they are not going to be paid a whole lot, they want their summers off and a a somewhat easy going job. That money comes out of our pockets and that is where the democratic party strives off of the union. Their is so much legislation and regulations from the government to make the safety regulations, and most are outrageous and do nothing but make people pay more taxes. The unions have nothing to do with all the safety, it's the government regulations. The unions are not needed anymore they have overstayed their welcome. If you want unions run by the government, go to China, North Korea or any other communist country and live over there for a month, hell i'll buy your plane ticket, this isn't freedom, this is regulation strangulation of the Constitution.

REALLY? I can see your babbling is from years of experience working in both Union and non union jobs to support a family and hopefully make things better for your kids then what you had.

(Fact is the union ships more jobs overseas than the private sector, so jobs lost, and yes sending jobs overseas is good for the economy, but to an extent.) So now Unions own the company's and want to ship their jobs overseas? They want private sector employers to set up shop and sell foreign product? This is good for who's economy? Oh yea, we get 2 minimum wage employees to run the shop. Instead of the 50 working overseas to make the product. Because they are under the minimum amount of employees, the owner doesn't have to pay for healthcare the employee can pay for that too out of the minimum wage they make. Forgot to mention that was an oversea owner of the shop to begin with. Exploiting the American system. Police, Firefighters, Teachers. They want their jobs shipped oversea? Ya gonna pay for your kids to go to school over there? Really can't imagine the responce time to get a crew/equipment here from China when your house is on fire.

(The unions take dues and rack them up giving them to their political party leaders the socialist/Marxist democrats who need them. They feed lies to the people and are acting like thugs. This is a great point of how the unions want to take away the RIGHTS of the PEOPLE.) This is not union, we have people called Lobbyist that work fulltime on both sides of the coin to try and push what they want through.

(The fact that the union thugs tore down the Americans for Prosperity tent is a prime example of how our freedom of speech is being taken away.) Neither side had a voice in what happened here. This is purely whats on the Govenors adjenda. Our state government is taking away our rights. This is the issue. What would you be writing about if your state appointed a MANAGER to overrule and oust your elected city government? With complete and absolute control to do whatever they see fit. Including lining their own pockets. This is even happening in America? How long before the Federal Gov steps in and appoints a STATE manager?

(Why not have the freedom to decide whether you should be part of the union or not.) You do. Make your living in the private sector you are raving about, if unions jobs, better wages/benefits mean nothing to you. Let me know how that works out for ya.

(Here's an example, in Northern VA, art teachers get paid 70-73,000 a year....WTF a damn art teacher does not need to make that much let alone 50,000 teaching 5th graders how to make a clay bowl. A teacher goes to school knowing they are not going to be paid a whole lot, they want their summers off and a a somewhat easy going job. That money comes out of our pockets and that is where the democratic party strives off of the union.) My daughter is a teacher, makes no where near that kinda money, is constantly worried about cutbacks and would have lost her job already short of Union negoiations. But according to your thinking she would be much better off in the private sector selling doughnuts? Then you contradict yourself...A teacher goes to school knowing they are not going to be paid a whole lot, they want their summers off and a a somewhat easy going job. 70,000 a year is NOT ALLOT? You state this is comming out of OUR pockets. So you are a homeowner and paying property taxes that run the state and your not a little concerned about state Gov sticking their nose in where it don't belong and you have no say in the matter.

(Their is so much legislation and regulations from the government to make the safety regulations, and most are outrageous and do nothing but make people pay more taxes. The unions have nothing to do with all the safety, it's the government regulations.) Where do you think the safety regulations came from? Unions protecting their workers. Now you need someone to follow up on complaints. OH yea, that would be a state worker that his Union is fighting to get more inspectors as he can't possably keep up with the workload. Looser = working class again. Because the State Gov doesn't want to bother employers with extra cost to do business. Too busy putting the tax breaks in place and moving the cost back to working class to bare. But at least we don't have to worry about the UNIONS/someone/anyone standing up for us! We can trust our state GOV to put the workers best interest 1st. NOT!