People have their likes & favorites, I get that! And you definitely can't change the masses! All that said, I find it ironic that the brand that is famously known as “Chief of the Sixes” is now pretty much ignored by the faithful! If it has a six! If it's newer than the “80"s time frame or fwd!  You'll often hear, nice car! Yet at the end of the day it's inconsequential to the muscle car faithful. And the longer this Pontiac community has gone on the more it has turned into just another classic muscle car community, but just for Pontiac! Just saying! 

Ringo's statement at the beginning was true when I came here in “16”! “Whether you're a die-hard fan of classic muscle cars or you've got a soft spot for sleek modern models, you've found your home here at Forever Pontiac. Our community is dedicated to celebrating everything Pontiac, from the iconic GTO to the legendary Firebird and everything in between.” But little by little the muscle car classics have; well taken over! From most conversations content to the PTMO or the calendar contest. 

I am as big of a muscle car fanatic as any. But it strikes me that those that love the muscle car era can't see anything else! I get it! Kind of?! It was a great era! I got to be in the heart of it!

Yet over time the folks that used to come & join that had the non classic muscle cars have become fewer & fewer. And those that had been here have either left or just stay silent. Ringo has done an amazing job & there are many that try their best to be attentive to this, but at the end of the day it's the masses that rule! So there's nothing to be done for it! It's a spontaneous thing, a knee perk reaction! I just needed to say it! 

Say What?? about JUSTA6?? Big shoulders, walk with a limp now, but can still carry the non V8 load.

Hello Gary,

My semi-luxo-barge, land yacht Catalina vert is far, far from being a muscle car. My wife wanted a convertible and I wanted another project car so here we are. It'll never be a tire smoking muscle car but that's OK by me. I just want to get it on the road - selfishly for me, of course. But I also bought the Cat out of the collection of the estate of a good friend's deceased father and I promised my friend to get it running again. The widow and the son both want to see it running again.

Rick

Thanks for the much needed reminder Last Indian!

American society has become V8 snobs and thats not fair. V6s, Trophy Fours and OHC 6s should be admired and celebrated. Same thing with the flat head straight six and straight eights! The 3800s, the Quad 4s, the Ecotec Fours, the Iron Duke 4, the 3100 and 3400 60-degree V6s. I could go on but you get the point. We need to celebrate all Pontiacs, not just the Pontiac V8 or LS/LT engines.

We need to do better.

1 hour ago, JUSTA6 said:

Say What?? about JUSTA6?? Big shoulders, walk with a limp now, but can still carry the non V8 load.

JustA, you da man! You bridge both worlds! And Justa6 is an incredible beast! You're one of those as is B52 & Frosty, that keep the origin of Ringo's vision alive.

1 hour ago, B52bombardier1 said:

Hello Gary,

My semi-luxo-barge, land yacht Catalina vert is far, far from being a muscle car. My wife wanted a convertible and I wanted another project car so here we are. It'll never be a tire smoking muscle car but that's OK by me. I just want to get it on the road - selfishly for me, of course. But I also bought the Cat out of the collection of the estate of a good friend's deceased father and I promised my friend to get it running again. The widow and the son both want to see it running again.

Rick

And Rick you too follow that same mentality as does Frosty! Yet what I'm referring too as one example, are to folks the vote month after month for the exact same muscle cars no matter how good or nice a non muscle car in that month might be! The same now goes for the calendar contest. And if someone posts a build or question or any thing about a muscle car there is most often a flurry of activity! On the other hand if it's one of the aforementioned other types maybe it get one, two, possibly these, but that's it. That's not how it once was. And of course there are always exceptions.

57 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Thanks for the much needed reminder Last Indian!

American society has become V8 snobs and thats not fair. V6s, Trophy Fours and OHC 6s should be admired and celebrated. Same thing with the flat head straight six and straight eights! The 3800s, the Quad 4s, the Ecotec Fours, the Iron Duke 4, the 3100 and 3400 60-degree V6s. I could go on but you get the point. We need to celebrate all Pontiacs, not just the Pontiac V8 or LS/LT engines.

We need to do better.

Frosty gets it. Look at POTM! That poor girls been trying month after month! It certainly as nice as any of the other up for a vote! But the same dozen or so year muscle cars get voted in! I'm with you B52! I built my cars for me no one else, & I've stated that here before. But it does get hard to watch.

What Frosty said Last indian, !!! we must do better

speaking on behalf of the active "B" body clan here on fp, fitzy, wrongway,Rick,Paul,gpbill, albert,jeff, and pablo

We do swamp the forum with our widebody adventures and from time to time we do have a go on the potm ! i even proudly won not so long ago with my rusty 57 !!, it cost me a fourtune in brides !!

And i for one acknowledge your opinion, we have to be encourgaing our 80's plus pontiacs and in turn they need to be posting too ! other wise us B body guys will justA take over!

While i see the fantasic muscle cars being posted for potm and the calender, i personally only vote for active members !... thats JustA me

my office wall needs more calanders !!!!!

Edited August 3, 2025Aug 3 by 64 kiwi boni

Gary has built one of the most highly modified Pontiac's on the planet. Yet doesn't receive the attention that it well deserves!!! His car would be a contender for the greatest automotive award on the planet....The Riddler in the pro show ISCA Detroit. I agree the newer cars rarely get the attention, and questions about problems around here and how to solve them don't get the response that some of the muscle cars do. But why???? You start in with the computers, sensors, codes, throw in security measures and pollution hardware, quite frankly, you need to be a computer wiz JUSTA open the freakin door. I admit, other than basic problems I can't work on JustaG6's G6. Let alone the daily drivers in my driveway. Recently my wifes GMC was throwin codes, falling on it's face, traction control, misfiring on and on. Managed to get it to a shop. $2000.00 later the problem was a wheel sensor!!!!! I couldn't give advice to myself let alone help somebody here with a problem they might be having. Go back to my GTO era or even the NON computer Sunbird and I gotcha covered. Funny part is, the same mechanic that can work on todays cars, wouldn't know how to open the hood on my GTO. Seriously!!! There are many peeps here that LOVE their newer Pontiac's and want to keep them on the road and enjoying every chance to take em out N play. Who is actually to blame here? GM (yes I used upper case!) Stopped making the parts for cars over 10yrs old. Leaving China or Taiwan to build us the frustrating parts we have to use. Owners working on their own cars are frowned upon. So they build something so crammed together in a small space, you have to disassemble half the motor to get to the rear sparkalatorrs N lightning tubes. 4 hour job at $120 hour plus parts. You can spend over $100 per cyl for new injectors, or $20 on a carb rebuild kit. Carb??? What's that??? Todays shops have computers that car owners can't begin to afford. Guys like Gary Justa make their own custom parts. They have the knowledge of what to look for, how to track down probs. Until the newer car crowd starts voting for what is cool as hell. They will go back to what their Dad's opinion of cool is. And knowing that most couldn't afford a GTO today. Most are built.....NOT bought. Let's all take a minute to appreciate what it takes to keep a 15-20 year old car on the road.

On 8/3/2025 at 11:45 AM, JUSTA6 said:

Gary has built one of the most highly modified Pontiac's on the planet. Yet doesn't receive the attention that it well deserves!!! His car would be a contender for the greatest automotive award on the planet....The Riddler in the pro show ISCA Detroit. I agree the newer cars rarely get the attention, and questions about problems around here and how to solve them don't get the response that some of the muscle cars do. But why???? You start in with the computers, sensors, codes, throw in security measures and pollution hardware, quite frankly, you need to be a computer wiz JUSTA open the freakin door. I admit, other than basic problems I can't work on JustaG6's G6. Let alone the daily drivers in my driveway. Recently my wifes GMC was throwin codes, falling on it's face, traction control, misfiring on and on. Managed to get it to a shop. $2000.00 later the problem was a wheel sensor!!!!! I couldn't give advice to myself let alone help somebody here with a problem they might be having. Go back to my GTO era or even the NON computer Sunbird and I gotcha covered. Funny part is, the same mechanic that can work on todays cars, wouldn't know how to open the hood on my GTO. Seriously!!! There are many peeps here that LOVE their newer Pontiac's and want to keep them on the road and enjoying every chance to take em out N play. Who is actually to blame here? GM (yes I used upper case!) Stopped making the parts for cars over 10yrs old. Leaving China or Taiwan to build us the frustrating parts we have to use. Owners working on their own cars are frowned upon. So they build something so crammed together in a small space, you have to disassemble half the motor to get to the rear sparkalatorrs N lightning tubes. 4 hour job at $120 hour plus parts. You can spend over $100 per cyl for new injectors, or $20 on a carb rebuild kit. Carb??? What's that??? Todays shops have computers that car owners can't begin to afford. Guys like Gary Justa make their own custom parts. They have the knowledge of what to look for, how to track down probs. Until the newer car crowd starts voting for what is cool as hell. They will go back to what their Dad's opinion of cool is. And knowing that most couldn't afford a GTO today. Most are built.....NOT bought. Let's all take a minute to appreciate what it takes to keep a 15-20 year old car on the road.

Steve, you are too kind, but I thank you for the compliment!

Steve, Dennis, Chris, Rick & all the others that are inclusive on this forum. Let me say I meant no dissatisfaction period! Especially with our forum or any particular person, least of all you guys & many others! You guys are great! Always helpful & friendly to everyone. That said, I think Steve nailed it way better than I articulated.

I think I have as much disappointment with the modern car owners as I do the muscle car guys that ignore the modern cars! Many of them, as I've seen first hand, have only a lukewarm passion! Where most muscle car guys are passionate about it. I've said it before, the greatest car I ever owned was my “69” Z/28! To me it was just the pinnacle of performance! Circumstances saw that go away! So enter the Indian! Now a new learning curve. Kind of as Steve said, but I said Detroit wasn't going to stop my passion! So the results in many ways were just as substantial as those I made to the Z!

Steve's right! Most of today's mechanics don't really know how to work on the old cars or even understand them & they aren't very good on today's cars without the OBDII. Oh wait there's no OBDII for suspension or other inert occurrences with the newer vehicles. Case in point! I had a recall on the two lacrosse's for rear toe links. Which is just a ⅛ “ thick piece of metal that adjusts the rear toe in & out. A few years back I rebuilt both car suspension & brakes including those toe links. I went to the Buick dealership to try & get them to clear the recall on both vehicles. The manager says they have to do it. Long story short, we are standing there talking as a tech is replacing this exact part on a lacrosse in for that recall. The guy is an idiot! He is just whaling on the thing with, wait for it, a sledgehammer to try & get the bolts out! I turned to the manager and said that's why you will never see one of my cars in here for anything!         

I still have 1 OHC-6 Pontiac Left. My 67 4-speed Firebird Sprint with A/C & California Emissions.