Brake pad and rotor replacement

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

My 1997 Firebird 1LE finally needs brakes...Front and Rear Rotors and Pads..The 1LE specific parts are no longer available...I'm going to reuse the factory calipers...So I'm looking for Input on severe duty rotors (slotted or not..??) and matching pads..any input will be appreciated...

PS..got 100,000 miles out of the originals... 

[JUSTA6]

Love my upgrade to drilled/ slotted,  alot less heat, NO brake dust and the pads still look new.  Plan to upgrade the daily drivers when they need brakes. 

[Last Indian]

3 hours ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

My 1997 Firebird 1LE finally needs brakes...Front and Rear Rotors and Pads..The 1LE specific parts are no longer available...I'm going to reuse the factory calipers...So I'm looking for Input on severe duty rotors (slotted or not..??) and matching pads..any input will be appreciated...

PS..got 100,000 miles out of the originals... 

Two Lane, I would always prefer cross drilled rotors. I run these rotors on the Indian. They have been on since 2004. I run EB green stuff pads, but these pads  I bought because of their coefficient of friction number, AKA they are soft pads. This setup stops phenomenally! Actually to the point that the car will flat stop in a panic stop situation without engaging the antilocks, it stops that well! Anyway these pads are quite dusty, so there may be other pads that are better now. These are nice rotors!

https://www.sp-performance.com/

Edited March 26, 2022 by Last Indian

[Last Indian]

Two Lane, the SP performance rotors come in several different configurations and finish’s, but all the ones I’ve see are quite nice. 
I presume you are just using the Bird for street, right? If so, extended periods of intense braking are not going to be an issue. Durability and very good braking are. Those come from a good differential in coefficients of friction between rotors & pads. I imagine you know this, but one of the self defeating issues with non slotted/cross drilled rotors & pads is out gassing. Manufactures have tried to address this by grooving pads, but again that is counterproductive. One, pads surface area matters, but rotor surface area doesn’t. Two the grooves are not large enough to have any real benefit on out gassing.

Clearly you need to decide what is the best setup for your needs. So two companies that can provide a decent selection of coefficients are Hawk & Winmax. Winmax offers some pad coefficients all the way down to .26. Personally for the SP rotors I would look at a .32 - .37 range. 
Back in 1979 I designed & built my own brake system for my “69” Z. When I sold the car in 2004 those brakes had 123,000 miles on them. The rotors were never turned, pads never replaced and still only about half used. In those 25 years those brakes were anything but babied.

“69” brakes in “79”

Sp performance rotor for the Indian

rebuilding of Indian calipers

Indian front brake

Edited March 26, 2022 by Last Indian

[Frosty]

I've made the decision to upgrade my '86 Trans Am to drilled and slotted rotors. I ordered a set from Powerstop for the front. I still need to order a set for the rear. Everything I've read is that the drilled and slotted rotors aid stopping by the out gassing effect that Last Indian mentions. I will probably put them on Lucy when the time comes to replace the rotos on her too.

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Thanks for the input guys...Will be going with Sport Rotors Cryogenically treated slotted Brake Rotors...I'm going with the slotted rotors instead of the Cross drilled is because in my personal experience I've found that the drilled rotors have a tendency to crack outward from the holes... Under extreme severe use Braking conditions...(Nascar short track ovals) The car is mainly driven under normal street use conditions....But it has  occasionally been run on the track...and Routinely  speeds over 100 + MPH on my favorite road course (Blue Ridge Parkway)...Will also be going with Hawk HPS Ferro-Carbon pads.. Any final thoughts/comments Would be appreciated Before I push the Order button...Thanks again guys...

Edited April 11, 2022 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[Last Indian]

1 hour ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

Thanks for the input guys...Will be going with Sport Rotors Cryogenically treated slotted Brake Rotors...I'm going with the slotted rotors instead of the Cross drilled is because in my personal experience I've found that the drilled rotors have a tendency to crack outward from the holes... Under extreme severe use Braking conditions...(Nascar short track ovals) The car is mainly driven under normal street use conditions....But it has  occasionally been run on the track...and Routinely  speeds over 100 + MPH on my favorite road course (Blue Ridge Parkway)...Will also be going with Hawk HPS Ferro-Carbon pads.. Any final thoughts/comments Would be appreciated Before I push the Order button...Thanks again guys...

Yup! Great choice! Didn’t know you could get the cryogenically hardened one for that year! But obviously you can! Rears too? Those are what I have on the Lacrosses. 
FYI. The SP rotors while cross drilled have a specific chamfer that is supposed to eliminate the heat issues that causes the cracking. And as far as mine are concerned they have never cracked, still look really good actually.

Where or who did you find the cryogenically hardened rotors?

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Will be acquiring the parts through Classic Industries...

Will be doing all four (4) Wheels...With the Cryogenically treated Slotted Rotors and the Hawk HPS Ferro-Carbon pads...From what info I'm able to gather... Apparently the cryo treated rotors are only available with the slotted rotors....But I could very well be wrong on that...???

I'm hoping this is going to be a good Upgrade from the nonexistent/Discontinued Original GM 1LE specific braking components...That the car is originally factory equipped with... Which is a Really good package to begin with....So I guess I will find out for sure...When the parts arrive and I install them...

Am going to push the order button within the hour...

Thanks again for everyone's input and comments...

TLBT

[Last Indian]

43 minutes ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

Will be acquiring the parts through Classic Industries...

Will be doing all four (4) Wheels...With the Cryogenically treated Slotted Rotors and the Hawk HPS Ferro-Carbon pads...From what info I'm able to gather... Apparently the cryo treated rotors are only available with the slotted rotors....But I could very well be wrong on that...???

I'm hoping this is going to be a good Upgrade from the nonexistent/Discontinued Original GM 1LE specific braking components...That the car is originally factory equipped with... Which is a Really good package to begin with....So I guess I will find out for sure...When the parts arrive and I install them...

Am going to push the order button within the hour...

Thanks again for everyone's input and comments...

TLBT

The only other recommendation I would offer, as I haven’t said it here, is the brake fluid. Bosch sells a ES16 brake fluid. Compared to the other available products, with the exception of pure silicone, which even that needs to be a specific type if you run in cold weather, it is hands down the best! IMO.

[64 kiwi boni]

Look at changing your brake hoses to Teflon too Two lane, !! you will feel the difference ! 

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Spent an hour waiting on the phone with Classic  Industries...Only to be told that the rotors and pads are Back ordered...They might get them in 12 to 14 weeks...Maybe...

So this occurrence...Causes me Great Annoyance and Displeasure...

I somehow can't help from thinking that this Cretin who is talking to me....From the fake Whitehouse Oval Office TV set.....(right this very moment)Telling me how great he is doing...Along with  His Buddy who wears the plastic nursing titties... Are Not Somehow directly responsible for this Travesty...And Injustice that has been forced Upon me...

So in the meantime I will have to come up with a plan B...

Edited April 11, 2022 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[JUSTA6]

17 minutes ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

Spent an hour waiting on the phone with Classic  Industries...Only to be told that the rotors and pads are Back ordered...They might get them in 12 to 14 weeks...Maybe...

So this occurrence...Causes me Great Annoyance and Displeasure...

I somehow can't help from thinking that this Cretin who is talking to me....From the fake Whitehouse Oval Office TV set.....(right this very moment)Telling me how great he is doing...Along with  His Buddy who wears the plastic nursing titties... Are Not Somehow directly responsible for this Travesty...And Injustice that has been forced Upon me...

So in the meantime I will have to come up with a plan B...

Can't afford the gas for it anyways, might as well Justa stare at it in the driveway.

[64 kiwi boni]

Two lane, what about these? 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=3959319&cc=1252055&pt=1896&jsn=928

or these kits

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=6104400&cc=1252055&pt=13824&jsn=954

[Frosty]

For what it's worth Two Lane, my Powerstop front rotors and pads showed up yesterday, I ordered them from Summit Racing.

 

[Last Indian]

15 hours ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

Spent an hour waiting on the phone with Classic  Industries...Only to be told that the rotors and pads are Back ordered...They might get them in 12 to 14 weeks...Maybe...

So this occurrence...Causes me Great Annoyance and Displeasure...

I somehow can't help from thinking that this Cretin who is talking to me....From the fake Whitehouse Oval Office TV set.....(right this very moment)Telling me how great he is doing...Along with  His Buddy who wears the plastic nursing titties... Are Not Somehow directly responsible for this Travesty...And Injustice that has been forced Upon me...

So in the meantime I will have to come up with a plan B...

TLBT, probably won’t help either, but Tire Rack shows stop tech cryogenically treated rotors for you car available & for want ever reason the right rear is on close out for $40. 

[Last Indian]

40 minutes ago, Frosty said:

For what it's worth Two Lane, my Powerstop front rotors and pads showed up yesterday, I ordered them from Summit Racing.

 

Look good Frosty! I’m only saying this from an informational standpoint & there is absolutely nothing wrong with those rotors, they are nice! And I know you most likely won’t do this, but just in case you would here goes. 
What Two Lane spoke of with reference to heat & cracking I delved into when I did my brake design way back when. One thing that really helps with that issue is a broader chamfer with a bit of a rounded deburr at both ends of the chamfer. What actually happens is the sharp edge & short distance of the chamfer causes a heat buildup on the two sharp edges. Believe it or not those edges act as block of more accurately a venting point for the heat instead of a smooth transition. Over time this concentration of heat causes a form of work hardening, which ultimately cracks. 
I don’t have any good pictures of how I did my original rotors, but the ones I bought for the Indian I do. Look closely at the holes! Here are the only rotors I ever found that were done correctly! That was why I bought them.

[JUSTA6]

Frosty's powerstop is chamfered as well.  Justa not as large, but still enough to eliminate the sharp edge.

[Last Indian]

JustA you need to look closely at the holes they’re not really chamfered. It’s not the size as much as removing the entry & exit of the cone per say. Looking closely you will see there are basically no sharp edge of any kind entering the cross drill hole or exiting it. Those two points are the precipitous of the problem. The hole chamfer isn’t actually a chamfer it’s called a sinusoid curve.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Last Indian

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Tried several different sources to obtain the cryo treated rotors...Same thing from all the companies...12 to 14 week back orders...And couldn't even be sure if they could get them within that time frame...

So I implemented plan B..Went through SP-Performance and found some slotted rotors...They are not Cryo treated... I think will work great for me anyway...

Anyway the rotors are SP-Performance..Peak Series V55-014 with gray ZRC finish for the front..V55-027 with gray ZRC finish for the rear...The Best part is I will have them here in 3 to 5 days with free shipping...

[Last Indian]

I think you’ll be pleased. Nothing like made in the USA! Than you can actually get it! Amazing! Maybe somebody should tell Joe! Oh wait he’s too busy getting the bird poop off his coat!

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Found that amusing too..

Guess the Wildlife isn't onboard with the narrative either...

🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Does anyone know what is the difference between Semi Metallic Brake pads...and Carbon Metallic pads..??

 

[Frosty]

Organic

Often made of materials of glass, Kevlar, carbon, rubber, or fiberglass and bonded together with extreme heat-resistant resin. These brake pads are often the lowest-priced option for brake pads, are quieter, and reduce stress on the brake rotors. Unfortunately, organic pads produce a great deal of black, brake dust and tend to wear down faster.

Semi-Metallic

Many vehicles on the road today are equipped with semi-metallic brake pads. Often made from a compound of iron, copper, steel, and graphite that have bonded together, these pads provide good performance and transfer heat from friction well. Metallic brake pads are more durable and are often used for heavier vehicles. They are more resistant to brake fade, available in a wide range of formulations suitable for trucks and SUVs, are cleaner than organic materials, and are a more cost-efficient option in comparison to ceramic pads. However, there are some disadvantages to semi-metallic pads. They can be noisy and tough on the brake system causing more frequent wear of rotors.

Ceramic

Ceramic pads, yes, made of similar materials to what you’d find in ceramic pottery and plates, but far more durable. These pads are made of stacked glass ceramic fibers, filler material, bonding agents, and bits of varying metals. Ceramic has gained popularity in recent years and is widely used among many manufacturers. They were developed after semi-metallic pads in an attempt to reduce noise, heat, and brake dust. The difference between ceramic and metallic brake pads is that ceramic pads are quieter and cleaner in comparison to organic and semi-metallic pads, less abrasive on rotors, and often last longer than others. Drawbacks of ceramic pads include cost, as they are the most expensive brake pad option and are not designed to be used on performance vehicles or heavy-duty trucks.

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Frosty

[Last Indian]

5 hours ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

Does anyone know what is the difference between Semi Metallic Brake pads...and Carbon Metallic pads..??

 

Carbon metallic pads use carbon fiber mixed obviously some type of metal shavings, ceramic metallic uses ceramic mixed with metal shavings and organic obviously we all know. You recommendation would be the carbon metallic! They have very good heat tolerance good fade properties excellent stopping power, better than ceramics, yet they are much easier on rotors. With the type of rotors you are getting, I think you would be ahead of the game with carbon metallics. IMO.

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Finally my parts showed up from SP Performance... Hopefully will be able to install them tomorrow...Also have new pins and bushings for the calipers...Went with Semi- Metallic pads..

Edited April 21, 2022 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP