RSS Report: Europe considering 70-mph speed limiters on all cars?

[Ringo64]

Filed under: Europe, Government/Legal, Safety

If George Orwell were alive today and had read this story from The Daily Telegraph, he'd be standing in the middle of the Rue de la Loi, shouting "I told you so!" at the top of his lungs. In a bid to decrease the 30,000 deaths on European roads each year, the European Commission is seeking to require speed-limiting devices on all vehicles.

It's unclear how the commission would go about this, although according to The Daily Telegraph. The leading candidates involve vehicle-mounted cameras that read speed-limit signs, or satellites beaming speed information into cars so that motorists can be warned whenever they are at risk of exceeding the limit. Another, more invasive scenario could actually see a vehicle's brakes applied any time the driver exceeds the maximum allowable speed, in this case, 70 mph. This proposed legislation isn't sitting well with the United Kingdom, though.

Britain's Transport Secretary, Patrick McLoughlin, has flatly opposed the notion, telling the paper, "This has Big Brother written all over it." Besides infringing on the freedom of drivers, the Ministry of Transport also argues that the UK's road safety record - only 1,754 people dying on the island nation's roads in 2012 - proves that Britain can get by without the the mandate.

Us? We don't see this attempt getting very far. Aside from the inevitable invasion of privacy concerns, there's a big financial one, as well - most countries, states and municipalities in Europe have some level of dependency on revenue collection from speed violations, be they administered automatically via speed camera or the good old fashioned way, by getting pulled over.

What do you think of all this? Have your say in Comments.

Europe considering 70-mph speed limiters on all cars? originally appeared on Autoblog on Tue, 03 Sep 2013 17:30:00 EST. Please see our terms for use of feeds.

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[havoc1482]

Or they could do what we do... seriously, the United States has some of the best driving laws and drivers in the world. Europe and other parts of the world are insane when I see people driving.

[notallthere]

Demolition here we come.

[Professur]

Wait a minute ... a system in place that would prevent people speeding and completely cut any chance of ticketing them for profit? Politicians would never let 'this violation of people's rights' to happen. Imagine the voluntary tax shortfall ....

[[ChaosweaveR]]

I don't think the UK or the US has a good driving education system at all.

Now Germany and Sweden...THEY teach you how to DRIVE.

[Ringo64]

I haven't been to Europe but I know we are much better than China The rules there are just guidelines.

IMO this solution is retroactive and proactive is what we need. People need to be better drivers no matter if we have a speed limit or what the speed limit is.

[havoc1482]

I don't think the UK or the US has a good driving education system at all.

Now Germany and Sweden...THEY teach you how to DRIVE.

The problem with US driving education is that some states (or maybe all Idk, I'm using MA for my info) don't require you to take lessons after the age of 18, you just need to take a test. From what I've observed and have read, drivers who get their permits at 16 and go through a quality driving school are much safer and qualified drivers by the age of 18. The problems you see with American drivers comes with the statistical outliers that skew shit around. These are the people that got their license at age 18 without proper lessons or f*cked around and didn't pay attention at 16 and only did the bare minimum to pass, or they are bad drivers so far gone that they will never learn. One of the other biggest problems in driving schools here is instructors that pass students that clearly cannot f*cking drive. The lessons are sound, its the instructors that don't do their jobs correct which is why Germany has the best drivers, their instructors are qualified by the government to teach and they get paid well enough to give a shit about teaching.

Another thing I know is that in the US people drive differently depending on what part of the nation you are from. I live in New England and generally people here are good drivers. Take us Massholes for example, we get that name from driving like maniacs, but we still know what we are doing. And f*ck CT drivers, seriously, those people are so good at driving they piss me off because they aren't aggressive and I'm a Masshole and I want to be "that guy".

[Professur]

Just gonna muddy the water a bit ... here in QC, new drivers must take professionally offered driving lessons while holding a learner's permit. Those lessons take no less than 12 months. This ensures that new drivers will have driven with an instructor during all seasons. During that time, they must always be accompanied by a licensed driver ... neither may have any alcohol in their system. Passing both the driving school's and the DMV's theory and practical tests nets you a freshly minted 2 year probationary license ... half the demerit points of a full license and .04 alcohol tolerance.

Oh, just FYI .. the lessons total $1100, and do not include the cost of the DMV exams, or the learner's permit. It does include the cost of a school supplied car for the test. Once.

[Frosty]

I have driven in 46 states in the United States, plus the provinces of Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba, Alberta, and British Columbia. I've driven the sheep infested roads of the Scottish Highlands in Balmoral and walked the tourist packed streets of London. I have ridden in cabs and buses along the Champ's Elysee in Paris and along the quiet roads to Colleville-sur-Mer where the America cemetery overlooking Omaha Beach stands in quiet vigil over the American, Canadian, and British sacrifices made on June 6, 1944. I've driven from Frankfort-au-Main along the Autobahn at over 185 kmh to Munich, from the Winter Olympic park in Innsbruck, Austria to Garmish to the ruin walls of the old Berlin Wall. I have seen the smog, and the auto and human congestion of 18 million people that make up daily commute of downtown Beijing.

In all this traveling, I've learned and observed several things. Good or bad driving habits are often subjective to the your standards and the culture you were raised or live in. If you were raised in a large city, I will bet you use your horn 100 times a day more than I do. I would expect urban areas to experience a lot more road rage. Many old Europe cities were walled/fortified cities centuries ago. This means their streets are extremely narrow and twisty by American standards. So European cars have to traverse these narrow roads accordingly. Every country, every rural area has their own laws and generally accepted driving practices too.Therefore, I do not see a 70mpg governed car gaining any traction in the EU, nor in North America for that matter.

Havoc, virtually every state that I know of allows you to take a driver's license test at 18, with or without a learner's permit. This probably is because of the 26th Amendment, giving 18-year olds the right to vote - thus making them unabridged adult citizens of the United States. You have to put the blame on bad driving squarely on the shoulders of the the bad driver's themselves. They either didn't learn the proper way (for whatever reasons - as you stated) or they have developed bad driving habits over time (usually just laziness). I find it hard to believe that any responsible instructor will knowling pass an irresponsible driver (in this day and age in this country anyway). No one goes to work saying I am going to do a mediocre or poor job at work today. Or I am going to knowling endanger people's lives today. I am all for proper instruction, especially now that my boy is 8 months away from being able to take driver's training.

I will tell you something else about German drivers and cops. They are a no nonsense bunch. In the proper sections of the Autobahn you can go as fast as you want. Other sections have speed limits and are strictly enforced. It is your responsibility to maintain control of the vehicle at all times. Drinking and driving is a huge no-no. If you cause an accident or get a DUI, your insurance is cancelled and your car is not repaired at all. Criminal convictions for DUIs that result in death are severe by US standards. So becuase of their culture and going that those speeds forces you to be a good driver, or you die or go to jail for a long, long time.

So stop being a Masshole.

[Frosty]

Just gonna muddy the water a bit ... here in QC, new drivers must take professionally offered driving lessons while holding a learner's permit. Those lessons take no less than 12 months. This ensures that new drivers will have driven with an instructor during all seasons. During that time, they must always be accompanied by a licensed driver ... neither may have any alcohol in their system. Passing both the driving school's and the DMV's theory and practical tests nets you a freshly minted 2 year probationary license ... half the demerit points of a full license and .04 alcohol tolerance.

Oh, just FYI .. the lessons total $1100, and do not include the cost of the DMV exams, or the learner's permit. It does include the cost of a school supplied car for the test. Once.

We are similar in Michigan Pro. School systems use to provide drivers ed in the summers when my wife and I were young. No longer thanks to constant budget cuts. So we now have to send the kids to license, profession driving schools (these are now year round available too). Pay for the mandatory instruction. Take the passing school documentation, birth certificate, etc. to the Secretary of State (our version of the DMV) and take a written and driving test to be issued the first of three graduated driver's licenses. At level 1, the permit holder then can only drive with designated drivers. They must log their driving hours as well. They must log over 200 hours of drive time, and over 50 hours must be at night. Similarly, alcohol is a no-no. Level 2, allows but limits the number of passengers and allows some unsupervised night time driving. Level 3 is a full-privilege license.

[havoc1482]

So stop being a Masshole.

Never.

[Ringo64]

We are similar in Michigan Pro. School systems use to provide drivers ed in the summers when my wife and I were young. No longer thanks to constant budget cuts. So we now have to send the kids to license, profession driving schools (these are now year round available too). Pay for the mandatory instruction. Take the passing school documentation, birth certificate, etc. to the Secretary of State (our version of the DMV) and take a written and driving test to be issued the first of three graduated driver's licenses. At level 1, the permit holder then can only drive with designated drivers. They must log their driving hours as well. They must log over 200 hours of drive time, and over 50 hours must be at night. Similarly, alcohol is a no-no. Level 2, allows but limits the number of passengers and allows some unsupervised night time driving. Level 3 is a full-privilege license.

This is pretty much what happened with me. Received my learners permit though at age 15, the next semester in high school I took a drivers ed class that lasted the whole semester including time out driving. Little bragging rights, I got the award for the best driver due to the instructor actually thought I already had my license (there were a few kids in the class who did already), almost didn't get the piece of paper that enables me to have the "discount" rate for insurance if I bring it to the DMV and insurance. That right there may be a problem due to the class was not required lol. Anywho, over the next year we had to achieve the same time behind the wheel during the day and at night and of course with a valid license holder above the age of 21 I think it was (and they nor you could have an ounce of alcohol in your system). You also could not drive between the hours of like 10pm and 6am. Once we turned 16 and reached the required hours behind the wheel, we were able to take the DMV written and driving test (unless we took the school driving course then we got out of driving test because we took a more involved test in the course a month earlier). When you're 16 you are not able to drive with more than 1 non-family member in your car and between the hours of 10pm and 4am (unless coming from a work, school or religious function or accompanied by an adult with a valid drivers license). Then finally when you turn 17 you are able to drive with friends but still cannot drive between the hours of 11pm to 4am (unless accompanied by an adult with a valid drivers license). At age 18 finally you can drive whenever.

Ultimately I think this did me fine but I am very detailed oriented, learn fast and love to drive so I went above and beyond the required tasks. Ultimately I think the US needs more efficient training and active testing. Plus living in Florida I see/deal with a lot of different cultures and driving personalities. Ultimately I think the major thing is we need to stress the rules (not so much speeding) and that there are other people on the road and you should at the very least be conscious of how your actions affect others.

[Frosty]

Never.

Set phasers to spay Number One. Let's throw some chlorine in this gene pool.

[killerspeed101]

I agree that we need better driver education, i had one of the few good driving instructors around my area, took me to a huge parking lot in the winter told me to take a corner at about 30mph and then without warning ripped the ebrake so i would learn how to control a skid .

[Frosty]

Killer now that is something I wish driving schools would teach more of. In my travels, I know that most people living in the deep south and arid parts of the southwest regions of the country seldom experience winter weather and never develop the skills in how to drive in a skid situation. So they panic and do all the wrong things and get into an accident.

Some places I've seen specially outfitted cars with exterior exo-skeleton mounted to a lift on heavy-duty caster wheels to simulate a skid. The instructor controls when the car is lifted, simulating the skid, forcing the driver to compensate. I have also seen demonstrations using flat pavement with water poured out of a tanker truck to create hydroplaning. The principle is the same.

[Professur]

There's one of those 'coaster cars' ... actually a minivan, at the place near me. Part of the problem, Frosty, is that when we were young, nobody thought twice about taking your car to an icy mall parking lot and 'playing' ... a lot of our skid skills were learned there. Today, there aren't many wide open parking lots anymore ... and none of them are allowed to ice over for fear of getting sued. And kids doing doughnuts today is a call to 911 instead of their parents. Add to that today's cars with their FWD, AWD, ABS, self parking, lane tracking, auto braking, yadda yadda yadda .... actual driving skills are going the way of Latin. Fully autodrive cars are already in legislation ... highway 'trains' are soon to follow. Actual drivers will soon be looked at like that guy from iRobot ...

[Frosty]

You make some excellent points Pro. I will be the first to admit that one of my first jobs was in a mall. I knew the mall cops and I got to do donuts in the rear back lot in the winter. However, you are right, society's tolerance for these sort of things certainly has changed. Car technology has certainty changed too, to protect the driver even more from themselves and others, as well as other road hazards. Soon so called "smart cars" will mean the driver starts, stops, and programs the destinations, and then becomes a mindless passenger and let's computers take over all control from point A to point B. Too much "Big Brother" for my tastes.

[[ChaosweaveR]]

I took my Pontiac to plenty of snowy parking lots during the winter months.

Kinda fun getting the car sideways at 50mph and seeing how long I could keep the drift going. The mall near me has insanely big, wide open parking lots.

Taught myself how to reverse J-turn pretty good, too.

[Frosty]

Drifting can be cool so long as you don't hit anything. Those are good skills to have-especially if you are stunt driving for F&F.

[havoc1482]

There's one of those 'coaster cars' ... actually a minivan, at the place near me. Part of the problem, Frosty, is that when we were young, nobody thought twice about taking your car to an icy mall parking lot and 'playing' ... a lot of our skid skills were learned there. Today, there aren't many wide open parking lots anymore ... and none of them are allowed to ice over for fear of getting sued. And kids doing doughnuts today is a call to 911 instead of their parents. Add to that today's cars with their FWD, AWD, ABS, self parking, lane tracking, auto braking, yadda yadda yadda .... actual driving skills are going the way of Latin. Fully autodrive cars are already in legislation ... highway 'trains' are soon to follow. Actual drivers will soon be looked at like that guy from iRobot ...

I'm pretty sure this is why I'm such a good driver compared to my friends. My first car was my Phoenix. At age 16 I came home with that car, my momma cried and my daddy shook his head. RWD, V8, no airbags, heavy, everything was analog and mechanical.

I had so much fun in the winter with that car

[[ChaosweaveR]]

Drifting can be cool so long as you don't hit anything. Those are good skills to have-especially if you are stunt driving for F&F.

Certainly saved my ass in a few sketchy unstable moments with my Pontiac on public roads (unplowed highways suck) since I knew how my car would behave when the rear wants to swing out suddenly.

Wonder if the Honda is as nimble in the snow as my Grand Am was...

[Frosty]

I'm pretty sure this is why I'm such a good driver compared to my friends. My first car was my Phoenix. At age 16 I came home with that car, my momma cried and my daddy shook his head. RWD, V8, no airbags, heavy, everything was analog and mechanical.

I had so much fun in the winter with that car

I have always said I am a RWD bigot. I make no apologies for it. I have no desire to own or drive a FWD car based on the crummy FWD '81 Phoenix I owned back in the day.

As you know, Havoc, you can drive a RWD car in the winter just as easily as a FWD. It is learning the skills to deal with any given situation and handling them correctly that matters.

[[ChaosweaveR]]

Snow tires and weight balasts in the trunk make any RWD car like his Phoenix a breeze in snow.

[Frosty]

Certainly saved my ass in a few sketchy unstable moments with my Pontiac on public roads (unplowed highways suck) since I knew how my car would behave when the rear wants to swing out suddenly.

Wonder if the Honda is as nimble in the snow as my Grand Am was...

I would think so, the weight distribution should be approximately the same (with most of the weight at the front of the car). If you had gone from a FWD to a RWD car, then I would expect some differences because of the change in the major drivetrain components location (transmission, driveshaft, diff) would change the weight distribution of the car closer to 50/50.

The only thing that perhaps might make some difference is if the Honda has traction control to help shorten the skid (if it can). The Grand Am probably did not have any traction control.

[Professur]

Cops have always had RWD cars and driven them all winter. Every pickup and delivery van you see is RWD too.