What are the Best rear struts for smooth ride on 2002 Grand Am GT1 ?

[Lar]

Are there certain rear struts that give a smoother ride than others? 

[Frosty]

I think this is Last Indian’s territory. He is the FWD Grand Prix guru. He might have some insight in the Grand Am as well.

Welcome to FP BTW!

Edited September 19, 2023 by Frosty

[Lar]

Thanks, I joined in 2019, haven't posted in a while, so apparently my posts were deleted?

I hope to hear from whoever has the strut knowledge. 

[Ringo64]

9 hours ago, Lar said:

Thanks, I joined in 2019, haven't posted in a while, so apparently my posts were deleted?

I'm afraid, we do not delete posts. Looking in your profile, you had a topic but it didn't get any replies. At any rate, welcome!

https://foreverpontiac.com/profile/5396-lar/

[Frosty]

My personal favorite brands are: KYB, Bilstein, Monroe, and then Gabriel. Typically all of them have gas shocks. Also, OEM replacements from AC Delco are not bad if price is a concern.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Frosty

[Lar]

6 hours ago, Ringo64 said:

I'm afraid, we do not delete posts. Looking in your profile, you had a topic but it didn't get any replies. At any rate, welcome!

https://foreverpontiac.com/profile/5396-lar/

Thank You. Somehow, I haven't been able to access my own profile, to see past post. 

3 hours ago, Frosty said:

My personal favorite brands are: KYB, Bilstein, Monroe, and then Gabriel. Typically all of them have gas shocks. Also, OEM replacements from AC Delco are not bad if price is a concern.

Thank You. 

[Last Indian]

On 9/13/2023 at 11:55 PM, Lar said:

Are there certain rear struts that give a smoother ride than others? 

The best stock, AKA ride, you’re going to get is out of the factory strut, which are by all appearances gone. So your choices are as follows.

If by chance you want the OEM struts you’ll have to go to a real good GM dealer who knows their stuff & see if the supply is exhausted! Many times even when other dealers say they are gone they are not. Why? Because dealers all over the country will have old stock at their dealerships that don’t show up on any websites. But a GM dealer has access to a database that shows every dealers stock! They in turn can see if that dealer wants to release the stock. If they do you can get it, but you will have to pay more for it! Shipping etc. I have done this for years with many cars. 

The next closest will be Monroe’s or Gabriel’s best struts, but I personally would by just the struts, not the quick struts, which is the complete assembly. While these are convenient you have no control over any of the components & there are much better upper strut bearings, spring insulators & springs to be had than what they will use. I also would encourage you to by new springs! No matter how good you think yours are, they are fatigued & work hardened. They, not the strut are what do most of the work. If you can’t get the OEM springs, but I think you may be able to, there are many spring companies that can make them.

Last, if you are looking for a good ride, but one that improves handling, KYB’s AGX struts would be hard to beat! They are adjustable in firmness! They have a substantially larger shaft diameter, which makes a huge difference in suspension defection & movement, as well as handling. This is important why? At the end of the day with a MacPherson strut the only thing holding the top suspension to the car body is the strut shaft since there isn’t any upper Aarm! Think about that for a moment! Also unrecognized by most folks more than 50% of your ride comfort comes from your tires! The wrong tire tread, bad ride. The wrong tire composition, bad ride. Tire technology is very important today & even more so for a FWD car, since the front tires do both steering & propulsion! 
 

My two cents worth!

On 9/18/2023 at 9:29 PM, Frosty said:

I think this is Last Indian’s territory. He is the FWD Grand Prix guru. He might have some insight in the Grand Am as well.

Welcome to FP BTW!

I’m blushing!

[JUSTA6]

1 hour ago, Last Indian said:

The best stock, AKA ride, you’re going to get is out of the factory strut, which are by all appearances gone. So your choices are as follows.

If by chance you want the OEM struts you’ll have to go to a real good GM dealer who knows their stuff & see if the supply is exhausted! Many times even when other dealers say they are gone they are not. Why? Because dealers all over the country will have old stock at their dealerships that don’t show up on any websites. But a GM dealer has access to a database that shows every dealers stock! They in turn can see if that dealer wants to release the stock. If they do you can get it, but you will have to pay more for it! Shipping etc. I have done this for years with many cars. 

The next closest will be Monroe’s or Gabriel’s best struts, but I personally would by just the struts, not the quick struts, which is the complete assembly. While these are convenient you have no control over any of the components & there are much better upper strut bearings, spring insulators & springs to be had than what they will use. I also would encourage you to by new springs! No matter how good you think yours are, they are fatigued & work hardened. They, not the strut are what do most of the work. If you can’t get the OEM springs, but I think you may be able to, there are many spring companies that can make them.

Last, if you are looking for a good ride, but one that improves handling, KYB’s AGX struts would be hard to beat! They are adjustable in firmness! They have a substantially larger shaft diameter, which makes a huge difference in suspension defection & movement, as well as handling. This is important why? At the end of the day with a MacPherson strut the only thing holding the top suspension to the car body is the strut shaft since there isn’t any upper Aarm! Think about that for a moment! Also unrecognized by most folks more than 50% of your ride comfort comes from your tires! The wrong tire tread, bad ride. The wrong tire composition, bad ride. Tire technology is very important today & even more so for a FWD car, since the front tires do both steering & propulsion! 
 

My two cents worth!

I’m blushing!

NO JOKE, he's the REAL Deal and 2nd to NONE!

 

 

[Lar]

5 hours ago, Last Indian said:

The best stock, AKA ride, you’re going to get is out of the factory strut, which are by all appearances gone. So your choices are as follows.

If by chance you want the OEM struts you’ll have to go to a real good GM dealer who knows their stuff & see if the supply is exhausted! Many times even when other dealers say they are gone they are not. Why? Because dealers all over the country will have old stock at their dealerships that don’t show up on any websites. But a GM dealer has access to a database that shows every dealers stock! They in turn can see if that dealer wants to release the stock. If they do you can get it, but you will have to pay more for it! Shipping etc. I have done this for years with many cars. 

The next closest will be Monroe’s or Gabriel’s best struts, but I personally would by just the struts, not the quick struts, which is the complete assembly. While these are convenient you have no control over any of the components & there are much better upper strut bearings, spring insulators & springs to be had than what they will use. I also would encourage you to by new springs! No matter how good you think yours are, they are fatigued & work hardened. They, not the strut are what do most of the work. If you can’t get the OEM springs, but I think you may be able to, there are many spring companies that can make them.

Last, if you are looking for a good ride, but one that improves handling, KYB’s AGX struts would be hard to beat! They are adjustable in firmness! They have a substantially larger shaft diameter, which makes a huge difference in suspension defection & movement, as well as handling. This is important why? At the end of the day with a MacPherson strut the only thing holding the top suspension to the car body is the strut shaft since there isn’t any upper Aarm! Think about that for a moment! Also unrecognized by most folks more than 50% of your ride comfort comes from your tires! The wrong tire tread, bad ride. The wrong tire composition, bad ride. Tire technology is very important today & even more so for a FWD car, since the front tires do both steering & propulsion! 
 

My two cents worth!

I’m blushing!

Thank you very much.  Looks like one Co. like Monroe or Gabriel no longer offers all the individual parts. They offer the shock, the bellows, or the whole unit. Not the springs & the upper mount alone. If various brands were bought, one Co. would blame the other when they don't fit together.  I'm planning on the Monroe 171686 complete unit which is described as having a "premium" upper strut mount.  I've owned the Grand Am since it was new. It has never had a comfortable ride. I replaced the front struts & various sets of tires. I don't think there was a noticeable improvement with any of the changes. I understand that the GT1 Coupe is a sportier suspension than a family sedan. I assumed part if not a lot of that was in the strut assemblies. The funny thing is that as I look at the applications, they don't care if it is an SE or a GT or an Alero, or a Chevy Malibu.  I'm not changing the rear struts, just to get a better ride. They aren't bouncing, but they are rattling & I just thought I would see if an improvement over OE was available at the same time that I am replacing the rear struts to get rid of the rattle.   I appreciate everybody's input. 

[Last Indian]

36 minutes ago, Lar said:

Thank you very much.  Looks like one Co. like Monroe or Gabriel no longer offers all the individual parts. They offer the shock, the bellows, or the whole unit. Not the springs & the upper mount alone. If various brands were bought, one Co. would blame the other when they don't fit together.  I'm planning on the Monroe 171686 complete unit which is described as having a "premium" upper strut mount.  I've owned the Grand Am since it was new. It has never had a comfortable ride. I replaced the front struts & various sets of tires. I don't think there was a noticeable improvement with any of the changes. I understand that the GT1 Coupe is a sportier suspension than a family sedan. I assumed part if not a lot of that was in the strut assemblies. The funny thing is that as I look at the applications, they don't care if it is an SE or a GT or an Alero, or a Chevy Malibu.  I'm not changing the rear struts, just to get a better ride. They aren't bouncing, but they are rattling & I just thought I would see if an improvement over OE was available at the same time that I am replacing the rear struts to get rid of the rattle.   I appreciate everybody's input. 

Not having any knowledge of your skill level I can understand that. So what I would suggest is you look at the attached link to a strut available through NAPA. It is a KYB assembly, but it is an OEM replacement, not a AGX adjustable. KYB’s are a much better unit & will be using their strut mounts, spring insulators & springs.
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/KYBSR4037

What tires do you run? Goodyear? Or who?

[Lar]

I think the 1st 8 to 12 tires were Good Year then after that until now, they have been Michelin.  Before buying, I go online to tire rack etc. & see how tires are rated by tire rack and by actual customers that have been driving on them for a while.  Thanks for the link. 
I will take into consideration, but I wonder if they are really worth $300 "more" for 2 struts compared to Monroe.  I wish I could see road test of the different brand shocks, like tire rack offers for tires. I've gone on You Tube, where mostly there are installation videos, rather than brand comparisons. Although Scotty Kilmer did show how a no-name Chinese brand was worse than the originals with many miles on them. 

[Last Indian]

15 hours ago, Lar said:

I think the 1st 8 to 12 tires were Good Year then after that until now, they have been Michelin.  Before buying, I go online to tire rack etc. & see how tires are rated by tire rack and by actual customers that have been driving on them for a while.  Thanks for the link. 
I will take into consideration, but I wonder if they are really worth $300 "more" for 2 struts compared to Monroe.  I wish I could see road test of the different brand shocks, like tire rack offers for tires. I've gone on You Tube, where mostly there are installation videos, rather than brand comparisons. Although Scotty Kilmer did show how a no-name Chinese brand was worse than the originals with many miles on them. 

In general I would say you are going about it the right way! Michelin’s are far superior to Goodyear, & if you go about in the way you are that’s about the best you can do. In your case I can easily make the argument that the KYB’s are probably not worth it for you. The Monroe’s not Gabriel, would be the least intrusive ride. I would still encourage you to go to someone & discuss building a strut using the Monroe strut, but choosing springs & other components that will actually be higher quality. Those components will have their own warranty. 
The other thing that hasn’t been discussed is how many miles are on the car, not the tires or struts, but the car? If you have not gone through the entire suspension ever, meaning knuckles, wheel bearings Aarms, bushings, trailing arms, lateral bars, sway bar links, etc, etc! They maybe contributing to part of the problem & might even be the largest part.

[Lar]

Just under 130,000 miles. Even when all the parts were new, it was a stiff ride. I don't think it has gotten any worse over the years. On the highway it's smooth. It's in the City where almost all of the driving is, that I wish it were better, but I probably just need longer wheelbase & a heavier car. My goal is not to make it like new, I wanted to make it much better than it was when it was new.  I was hoping modern technology would have improved shock absorbing performance & maybe it has. Maybe what I get will be better than what it has been since it was new? I was just hoping to find other's experiences with different brands on my specific model of car.  I appreciate everybody's input.  

[Last Indian]

20 hours ago, Lar said:

Just under 130,000 miles. Even when all the parts were new, it was a stiff ride. I don't think it has gotten any worse over the years. On the highway it's smooth. It's in the City where almost all of the driving is, that I wish it were better, but I probably just need longer wheelbase & a heavier car. My goal is not to make it like new, I wanted to make it much better than it was when it was new.  I was hoping modern technology would have improved shock absorbing performance & maybe it has. Maybe what I get will be better than what it has been since it was new? I was just hoping to find other's experiences with different brands on my specific model of car.  I appreciate everybody's input.  

Lar, several things here. 1. Do you intend to keep the car long term? 2. Do you drive the car in the winter? 3. & within reason, even if it’s more than you wanted to spend do you prefer to get it right & than done? 

I asked this because going back over all you said I perceive that you might consider going back to zero! What I mean by this is all 4 corners of the car impact the ride. You said you replaced the front struts, when & with what? Replacing just back struts will more than likely have minimal effect if you leave the fronts as is. At 130,000 you more than likely have front Aarm bushing issues, unless you have addressed them. I have never seen a front Aarm transverse bushing that wasn’t blown out by 60,000 as one example. So even if you need to wait a little longer to get all that you ultimately determine you need. But this would really only apply if you want the car long term & don’t drive the car in the winter.

If that is the case consider Monroe’s for all 4 corners, be they quick struts or build a set of Monroe struts as I indicated previously. The rest of what to look at we can talk about as you proceed if you want. Than you need to step though tires & rims. Why? As I indicated before, tires & rims account for more than 50% of ride characteristics. Am I correct that you run 16”x6.5” rims?
With 225/50 x16 tires? A little taller tire with a little more width will drastically change your ride & still fit in your wheel well. So if you want to talk about this feel free.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Last Indian

[Lar]

The car is seldom driven in the winter. These days it's driven about 2,000 miles a year. So, it may be driven 10,000 miles in the next 5 years. The front Gabriel struts have about 20,000 miles on them.  You're right on the tire size & I assume on the wheel 6.5 width. I've taken a lot of training on computerized engine controls which said don't go to a different diameter tire, because it throws off the computer calculating the vehicle speed sensor & affects the timing.  When a car has a drivability problem, the fix may be to go back to the OE tire size.  Newer cars may have the capability to be "flashed" to compensate for changes, but I'm not sure if anything is available for something this old?  Thanks for all of your effort.

[Last Indian]

9 hours ago, Lar said:

The car is seldom driven in the winter. These days it's driven about 2,000 miles a year. So, it may be driven 10,000 miles in the next 5 years. The front Gabriel struts have about 20,000 miles on them.  You're right on the tire size & I assume on the wheel 6.5 width. I've taken a lot of training on computerized engine controls which said don't go to a different diameter tire, because it throws off the computer calculating the vehicle speed sensor & affects the timing.  When a car has a drivability problem, the fix may be to go back to the OE tire size.  Newer cars may have the capability to be "flashed" to compensate for changes, but I'm not sure if anything is available for something this old?  Thanks for all of your effort.

Lar, ok! Thanks for that info. So I realize you asked about advice on struts & we have discussed that, & I’m not preaching, I’m just trying to help you get to where you want to be, so bare with me!

 

First off I wouldn’t encourage you to change diameter, but not for the reason you mention. I assure you that tire diameter has no impact on ECM control over engine timing. The only relevance of larger diameters would be they can increase load on internal gears by causing more pressure on the fluid film layer which is a whole chemistry thing I won’t go into. That said, wider is a different matter! Still, first you need to address the suspension, not just struts. Struts are just a small part of the suspension! Really! 

 

Struts are nothing but a shock absorber with a spring attached to it! This setup was not, I repeat not an improvement to suspensions! It was a downgrade! 40 years ago 20,000 to 25,000 miles on a set of shocks was considered replacement time! Nothings changed except people pay a lot more money for a strut assembly so they want to get a lot more miles out of it for their money. Sorry it doesn’t work that way. It is actually harder to tell if a strut is bad while on a car. Why? Because most struts fail on just one side of the valving. This usually occurs on the down stroke of the strut, but the up stroke will often actually increase resistance against up movement. This causes an abrupt ride on rough roads at slower speeds. So 20,000 on the Gabriel’s is approaching end of life. 

 

If you have not put the car up & gone through the suspension, all the suspension, you are basically shooting blind as to what might or might not be in need of replacement. If you replace the struts & have a bad lateral bar than the strut will not perform well & may fail even sooner than it should. Your car has aluminum knuckles, do you know their condition? There is actually a dielectric action that takes place with these because GM does nothing to isolate them through gasket separation. This corrosion can be so great that the knuckle will start to crumble under the strut plate as well as other metal attaching parts. I could tell you more but, if this is not what you’re interested in pursuing than there is know point.

[Lar]

Thank you for your effort to help. I appreciate it.