Engine & Transmission oils & their chemistry’s

[Last Indian]

20 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

in the rockauto news letter today.......

 

 

Diesel Oil, Flat Tappets & Gas Engines

"Zinc" or "Phosphorus" on an oil bottle label usually is referring to the additive zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate (ZDDP). ZDDP helps prevent wear, especially where the camshaft contacts the lifter in flat tappet lifter engines. Newer engines (since the late 1980s) have roller valve lifters and therefore do not benefit as much from ZDDP.

The anti-wear benefits of ZDDP were recognized in the 1950s. The oil of the 1950s had only about 300 parts per million (ppm) ZDDP. The concentration of ZDDP in motor oil gradually increased until it reached a maximum of 1200 to 1400 ppm in the 1980s. (More than 1400 ppm of ZDDP in oil actually starts to increase engine wear.)

Unfortunately, it was discovered that ZDDP makes catalytic converters for gasoline engines less effective by gradually coating the catalyst material with phosphate. To satisfy the latest API Service "SN" oil standard, oil manufacturers only put 600 to 800 ppm ZDDP in their oil.

Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil

For over a decade, car enthusiasts with flat tappet lifter engines have been debating whether the 600-800 ppm ZDDP in new "SN" oil is enough protection. Oil experts say that it is enough wear protection once the engine is broken in.

The flat tappet lifter equipped engines in my family fleet were all broken in around a half century ago. I still like to dote on my old cars by giving them a little extra ZDDP as long as it does not require too much hassle or extra money. Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil has been one convenient option. It does not qualify for the "SN" rating because it has too much ZDDP and it is "not recommended for extended use in vehicles with catalytic converters."

Another new, less expensive possibility may be the 10W-30 oil made for some of the most modern diesel engines. Some old car enthusiasts have long recommended oil for diesel engines because it frequently contained more ZDDP. Unfortunately, diesel oil was typically only available in a heavy weight such as 15W-40.

Motorcraft's 10W-30 Oil for Diesels

The label on Motorcraft's 10W-30 oil for diesels says it "contains more than 1000 ppm phosphorus for better wear protection." That is 200 to 400 more ppm at little or no additional cost compared to "SN" 10W-30 oils. The Motorcraft diesel oil label also says, "do not use in gasoline engines equipped with catalysts."

I am testing the Motorcraft 10W-30 for diesels in the 351 under the hood of my 1971 Ford LTD convertible. However, I am not recommending that anyone else use oils labeled "diesel" in any gasoline engines. Please consult your vehicle's owners manual, the appropriate authorities, legal council, etc. before choosing a new type of oil for your specific engine. (For most vehicles, simply look under "Engine" and "Oil" in the RockAuto.com catalog to see manufacturer recommended choices. Oils listed by weight (10W-30, 0W-40, etc.) are found in the "Tools & Universal Parts" tab, under "Engine" and finally "Oil.")

Tom Taylor,
RockAuto.com

 

Where have I heard that before?! Sometimes I guess it just takes an outsider! I could expound, but! 

[Last Indian]

On 5/7/2020 at 5:16 AM, 64 kiwi boni said:

ok, so without being a scientist whats the best way to manage your engines oil ? by colour? mileage? smell, or all the above. ?🙄

and if you have a dirty engine whats the best way to clean it up without pulling it apart?

i do like your recommendation on engines that sit for long periods having clean oil which reduces  corrosion issues , but having said that whats the best thing to do for a engine that sits and you want to preserve it over a long period, do you start it and run it for 30 mins, or does it need to be taken for a run to load it up ?

How important is oil filter brand choice ???  

 sorry last Indian for all the questions, but i do enjoy learning from people who have " been there done that" 

 

Yes! All of it! Just like a medical Dr. they use everything, if they’re good, to determine what’s wrong with you. It’s like that, but there is a leaning curve.

“and if you have a dirty engine whats the best way to clean it up without pulling it apart?” change the oil & filter, run 200 to 300 miles, drain, & repeat. Do this and increase the flush miles by 100 miles each time by the time you reach 1000 mile drain flush, if not before you should see a marked improvement in oil cleanliness! If not, it’s not going to get better! 
Filters; there’s junk & there’s good stuff, but so many filter manufacturers have cheapened their products. Wix and AC Delco  use to be the best, but even those two had cheapened some of their line with a plastic cage arrangement! The best filters have metal top & bottom caps that are glued. Many will argue that oil is so clean today good filtration isn’t needed, that’s just plan stupid! The filter is more about what comes from the engine itself or what it may ingest through engine breathing! 
I personally have a stock pile of old style AC Delco’s that are the metal caps that are glued.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Last Indian

[64 kiwi boni]

That is great information mate!! i completely agree with the doctor approach to the condition of your oil. and i for one will use it 👍

 Thank you so much, you have once again enlightened me 

and its sooo far away from rebuilding a steering wheel!!!! haha, that just got me big time ,, sand, fill, prep, paint , sand fill paint , sand fill paint !! ( for anyone who has no idea what i am on about go see my thread  )

 Your clearly are very patient man 

Edited May 12, 2020 by 64 kiwi boni

[Last Indian]

18 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

That is great information mate!! i completely agree with the doctor approach to the condition of your oil. and i for one will use it 👍

 Thank you so much, you have once again enlightened me 

and its sooo far away from rebuilding a steering wheel!!!! haha, that just got me big time ,, sand, fill, prep, paint , sand fill paint , sand fill paint !! ( for anyone who has no idea what i am on about go see my thread  )

 Your clearly are very patient man 

Yup the wheels take some patients, but these push the things to new heights.

The outer rim inset is all finished by hand, as well as all the detail!

All those lines on the Indian are carved in by hand! It’s actually a little painful!

Edited May 13, 2020 by Last Indian

[64 kiwi boni]

6 hours ago, Last Indian said:

Yup the wheels take some patients, but these push the things to new heights.

The outer rim inset is all finished by hand, as well as all the detail!

All those lines on the Indian are carved in by hand! It’s actually a little painful!

Last indian, what gets me is your sooo clearly a patient man 

 but also clearly very clever!

 why did you spend your working life as a oil scientist when you could have been in automotive design ?

 i am in aww off what you have hand made!

 you have shown us your super clean engineering shop/ garage 

 i am thinking you have always done this... these 2 fields are so far way from each other, i wonder if you had always had this hands on metal thing going on ??🙄

[64 kiwi boni]

Last Indian,  you remind me of a very good friend of mine who is a Scotchman, living here in nz, 

he is a bone carver. he makes these amazing scripts on bone from whales bones, tigers teeth etc and it just so detailed and special 

 during the lock down 

 i had to fix his gas fire and he showed me what he was working on .

 it was the a tusk from a Narwhal whale and he was commissioned by its owner to " mount it"

what my friend did was he carved  in minuter, a whole picture of the whale its self into the horn and mounted it on a piece of rimu  

 guess what i am saying is that like him. your what i consider a Craftsman.👍 

[Last Indian]

18 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Last indian, what gets me is your sooo clearly a patient man 

 but also clearly very clever!

 why did you spend your working life as a oil scientist when you could have been in automotive design ?

 i am in aww off what you have hand made!

 you have shown us your super clean engineering shop/ garage 

 i am thinking you have always done this... these 2 fields are so far way from each other, i wonder if you had always had this hands on metal thing going on ??🙄

First of all thank you for the kind words, but I hope I did not mislead anyone! I don’t think I did, but if I did I apologize! I am not a scientist, a chemist or an engineer, at least by formal education! Yes I did all of these things in one form or another for my company for many years, & loved every minute of doing it. In many ways I was viewed as such to the point it caused embarrassment more than once for folks within my own company! 
There were times we would host an outside person or group or company or would go to another company for an exchange about work we were engage with together. They would assume as you that I was one of those things. It wasn’t uncommon that I would garner the attention, because to them it seemed that I had this breadth of knowledge that spanned both chemistry, mechanically function & application. Where my colleagues did not seem that why, and in my colleagues defense more than one of them said they did not. But to me in their field I was no where near even a distant second! Still when these time occurred & I would need to set them straight that I was not what it was they assumed, the others always had to defend the fact that this fact was not meant to deceive, just an oversight that had not been conveyed. In the end it never seemed to matter to any of them.
So as to not beleaguer this any longer than necessary, I finished high school, that’s it! Not to belittle myself, so yes I was smart, but a bad home life, hating school except for sports, which could have maybe gone somewhere if I had parents that had been supportive to that, but! Yah so that led to basically a kid with no direction, no interest in school and not sure where to head. 
I had already been doing these thing for my company for 10 years, when a colleague that I worked with for just a few short years, and then he left, said to me, “ you have a God given talent, I can’t believe what you do”! I can’t argue that! And so I really can’t take credit for it either! I never touched a lathe, mill, drill press or any of that type machinery! Never took a class for it in my life! But I could just run them & at a skilled level from the start. I never learned or knew how to weld, no one ever taught me, not any kind! But I just started welding when I needed it and I could, ark, tig, mig & oxyacetylene! Never studied chemistry beyond high school chemistry, but I for some reason understood all these things about it. I went to this company as a 25 year old machinist looking for a job! A chemical company! The world headquarters & r&d facility! A place that had 4 machinists in it, period. A 25 year old with 3 years machine experience. 10 years after I started, I end up doing special corporate r&d development projects for the next 30! You explain it, I can’t! And that’s why I did that work and not automotive design, not that anyone would have offered it to me! Go figure!
 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Last Indian