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  • Founders


Meh skimming through this I feel the same but I just wanted to move towards a topic of saying "Will you purchase into GM?"

I most likely will be, even though in recent times that haven't done what I think would have been a better move but hopefully will change (coughPONTIACcought)

Anywho I see 2 main reasons why its worth my investment:

  1. Get it out of government hands, the sooner the better...
  2. I feel this was the kick in GM's rear they needed. Things might not skyrocket but they will for sure get better.

Anyone else?

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Funny, I saw something about this on the Audi forum too. lol

There was a guy talking about investing in it and a bunch of people hounded him because he owns 3 Chevy trucks and has always liked GM but happened to own an A4 (which sounds strangely familiar ;) ).

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I would only buy GM stock if they did something more significant and permanent about the unions. They are still a drain on the company and going to cause a problem again in the future IMO.

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I would only buy GM stock if they did something more significant and permanent about the unions. They are still a drain on the company and going to cause a problem again in the future IMO.

So what would you recommend that GM management or the unions do differently?

There is already a 2-tier wage system in place at the national level for the UAW. So incoming workers make 50% less than the current workers do ($28 vs $14 a hour max). Plus I heard a rumor that the Lake Orion Michigan plant (which is currently shutdown for re-tooling to build the new Buick Regal and Chevy Cruze) will require existing workers on the Regal line to work for 40% less (according to some local agreement - not part of the national agreement), although I have not confirmed this one yet.

So without some restraint, the automotive industry could revert back to the pre-Henry Ford days when only the rich could afford a car. Once Henry installed and perfected the assembly line and made cars inexpensive, his workers could actually afford the cars they built. At $14/hour and a 40-hour work week, it does not take a genius to figure out that this is not a wage that will help car sales significantly.

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Sorry, but I don't buy that. Plenty of people make $14 an hour or less and still are able to buy a car. I don't make $14/hr. The biggest problem is there really is no need for unions any more. They served their purpose in the day, but they got too powerful and now only serve to support themselves and make profit just like a company. They are a parasite feeding off the company and the consumer, cutting into profit margins and increasing the cost of the vehicle. Cars would be cheaper if they weren't paying $28/hr to people with no college education to build them. And then they had all the pensions and health care for life etc etc... those people demanded way more than they deserved when they should have known there was no way the company would be able to cover those increasing costs indefinitely. They were greedy though and only concerned about right now, and didn't understand they would end up hurting the company that supports them and therefore themselves.

Basically GM was undone by three things. The drain from the Unions, bad corporate leadership, and just random bad luck with timing and the economy. They can't do much about the economy but they need to do something about the other two. They need to restructure the corporate leadership and how it works. They need to get rid of the union all together. They need to pay they people a reasonable wage for the job they are doing (and that means everyone, no grandfathered in BS), and restructure the health care and retirement plans. No more pensions. They should have a 401k and have to contribute and save for their own retirement just like everyone else in the country.

That would be a start.

One other point, they shouldn't be projecting car sales on how much their own workers make... you can't depend on your own workers buying your own products to keep a company afloat. It can't be self sufficient like that. They need to build and market products to everyone in the general public, and sell to people in all areas of the country and from all different types of businesses.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, GM's IPO is complete.


So now government motors is now diluted to under 50% control, but Uncle Sam is still not out of the car business yet. Perhaps 1-2 years from now they will be out of the car business.

This is a necessary step. Perhaps this will eventually lead to a return of Pontiac. Right now, don't hold your breath.

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The local papers are reporting that the government already got over $11 Billion from the IPO. The 'experts' think it will be another 2-3 years before the government sells off it's remaining ownership in the company. So GM has paid back over $5B in cash, plus $11B in the IPO. Just another $30B or so to go before the US government gets paid back. Then of course, the Canadian government has to get paid back too.

Good Morning America reported this morning that some Saudi Prince is investing $500 Million into GM.

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Some moron at work tried telling everyone GM was going to bring back Pontiac in an experimental trial using the Firebird :lol2:

I suppose that is theoritcally possible but it will be at least 2-4 years before that can happen.

As I outlined a while back in a different thread, GM won't make a move to bring back Pontiac until the government is out any stockholder or proxy control of the company. Now that the government's share is less than 50%, they don't have a controlling share, but they are still there.

Next, GM needs to decide to bring back Pontiac or at least a car with a Pontiac name heritiage like the Firebird. While the 2011 Camaro is already in production, and making a Firebird on it's underpinning is a logical choice, it will still take 2-4 years before one can come to production - best case (assuming GM decided today to bring back Pontiac and/or any model).

The reason for the long lead time is two-fold. First of all, there are no "Pontiac" designs in any of the GM design studios in North America, Australia, or Europe - where GM's rear wheel drive engineering teams are located. The design process is usually 6-15 months long. Next, any design has to pass U.S. government crash, fuel economy, and emissions testing. This process is at least 24 months long. The '04 GTO was the quickest car GM produced based on an existing tooled car (the Monaro). It still took 2 years to bring it to the US to meet government testing.

Finally, even assuming that much of the Camaro would be utilized, there is still a plethora of unique "Firebird' or "Pontiac" parts that have to be designed and tooled up for production. Building tools takes time too. So that is why it takes so long for a totally new design to come to market. This doesn't count any outrageous additional new laws for added crash safety or fuel economy standards.

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