Frosty

The wife wanted to take the Lemans out last night to a local cruise to meet up with some of her high school friends. A couple was in town that now lives in Phoenix, so it was an excuse for her to chat old high school times. The kids and I were third wheels after awhile so we checked out the cars and trucks at the cruise. Right away he spots a couple of 49-53 pickups. The powder blue was nice with Moon Eyes hub caps but for some reason choose to paint the run boards black. He had a great custom interior, removed the gas tank to the bed of the truck and had an old school Frenched power antenna. The second truck was a deep candy apple red that turned out to be owned by a brother of a gentlemen I worked with 20 years ago (who was also there). So the kid got an earful of how to buy a truck, what to look for, how long it should take to restore, what he should start with, etc. Imagine, all this free advise, and it didn't come from me. I certainly hope some of it sinks in.

Well Ghosty - if this concept photo is true - then new 2015 Grand National will be awesome car too.

Lots of free cold beer? Maybe.....still not an acceptable excuse.

GM made a few attempts to bring back the GTO prior to 2004. The most visible was the 1999 Concept GTO that was unveiled at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit. It was a modern look at the classic Coke bottle shape. Sadly, this was not even a working car. It had no interior or working engine. It won rave reviews and people like me demanded GM make it right after the show closed. Alas, GM missed the mark (and the point) and didn't produce the car. The 2004 GTO was based on the established Holden Monaro platform instead. Now if you look closely, you can see that 1999 Concept GTO did do a lot to inspire the 5th gen Camaro styling. Another concept car that many thought would the next GTO was the Grand Am SC/T concept. GM even built a concept car they called GTO that never saw the light of day (or press) back in the 1980s that was based on a lot of 3rd gen Firebird technology. There were enough people in Pontiac that felt that any car that wore the letters GTO had to meet some rather simply yet turned out to be rather high water mark criteria. 1. It had to be rear wheel drive (RWD) - so no FWD! 2. It had to have the highest performing V8 engine that could fit under the hood - no V6s or turbo 4 cylinders would do! 3. It had to be a 2-door coupe, no 4-doors allowed! 4. It had to be affordable Still it took someone like Bob Lutz to make the call and the business case to bring back the GTO name. A lot of car buyers by 2004 weren't even born when the GTO went out of production. So they had no idea what it meant to drive or own a GTO. Pontiac wanted to car to be a BWM / Lexus fighter - it didn't work. Another factor working against the GTO and RWD in general was the lack of public interest in RWD cars. The auto industry was forced into converting to FWD by fuel efficiency and emission mandates by the federal government starting in early 1980s. Once fuel injection and emissions technology matured, RWD cars could become just as efficient as FWD but by then, nearly a generation of car buying consumers had become accustomed to FWD and saw not real advantage to RWD. So sales (and availability) of RWD vehicles plummeted and were left to specialty pony/muscle/halo cars (Mustangs/Camaros/Firebirds), Vettes, Vipers, police & luxury cars (Roadmaster/Caprice/Mark VIII/Crown Vic), and trucks & SUVs. Essentially RWD vehicles, except for trucks & SUVs, were poor volume sellers by the early 2000s, and hard for manufacturers to justify building and selling them. I think the lose of the Camaro and Firebird hurt RWD in general in 2002. I believe that RWD is making a comeback with the strength of the resurgence of the Mustang, Challenger, Charger, Chrysler 300, Cadillac CTS, ATS, Camaro and Chevy SS. The Solstice/Sky, GTO, and Pontiac G8 did well to advance RWD back into the public eye too. I think we will see more RWD offerings from car companies in the future. GM is going to bring back the Grand National and GNX for Buick starting in 2015 or 2016 off the ATS platform. I think this is going to be a good thing for all of us. I think there needs to be a balance between FWD, RWD, and AWD from the manufactuers as a whole. Give people affordable choices and alternatives.

Oh, you know JUSTA and I will. Question is.....will Killerspeed show up at all???????? Or will he get lost in Royal Oak?

Ghosty - a lot of factors converged at the same time to help Pontiac determine to kill the GTO. They are (in no particular order of importance): 1. Wildly rising insurance rates for "muscle cars" like the GTO (while a sister A-body car like the Lemans or Tempest with most or all of the same options would be half as much). Some stories say that the some rates were so punitive that the insurance cost more than the car payment per month for some drivers. 2. Introduction of unleaded fuel (and eventually emission equipment like EGR valves and catalytic converters) required manufacturers to harden valves and valve seats to handle the removal of the protective "lead" (tetraethylead) from gas, and this lead to reduced horsepower (due to lower compression engines and lower available octane gasoline). Lead was not compatible with catalytic converters and would clog them. "Lead" fuel was used to help high compression engines avoid knocking. So manufacturers had to lower compression ratios in order to prevent knocking, thus reducing horsepower starting in 1971. After the mid-70s, you could no longer get 100 or near-100 octane fuel either. 3. GM switches from reporting gross to net SAE horsepower ratings, which combined with the unleaded fuel, had the perception of a significant horsepower drop. In reality, gross meant the engine was run with no air cleaner or parasitic drag like an A/C compressor, alternator, and power steering pump. Net meant all these were now in place when the engine was measured. Still the public perceived that this was the result of switching to unleaded fuel. 4. Dropping demand for muscle cars in general and the GTO in particular. Pontiac built 87,684 GTOs in 1968, 72,287 in 1969, only 40,149 in 1970, 10,532 in 1971, a mere 5,807 in 1972, a scant 4,806 in 1973, and 7,058 in 1974. So in its final three years, it was just under 18,000 total units. It is not that hard to see why Pontiac decided to kill the GTO from a production numbers perspective. 5. By the end of 1973, there is the famous Arab Oil Embargo which raised gas prices significantly (temporarily at least) and causes the public to lose interest in muscle cars even more, and demand more fuel efficient cars from all of the Detroit automakers. 6. Pontiac introduced its new Euro-styled Grand Am, on the same A-body platform in 1973 which competed directly against the GTO, and stole customers away from the GTO. The Grand Am was a marketing hit. 7. Pontiac switched the GTO to the Ventura - X-body platform in 1974 to compete with the Duster, Maverick Grabber, and Hornet X. This would also avoid it from competing against the Grand Am - but it lacked appeal to customers who thought the GTO should be a full framed car, rather than this newly "compact" muscle car segment it was now in. However, the 1974 GTO was the best power-to-weight ratio GTO ever built until the 2004-06 came along. 8. The GTO was hardly advertised between 1972 and 1974 in terms of TV ads, and it was short on print ads as well, as compared to previous years. So it was not marketed as well as the new Grand Am, or the newly re-styled colonnade Lemans. 9. After the 1971 model year, the GTO ceased to be its own model. It became an option off the Lemans in 1972 and 1973 and the Ventura in 1974. 10. The UAW went on a corporate-wide 67-day strike in September 1970, impacting the start of production of all the 1971 model cars and trucks. 11. In 1970, Pontiac introduced the GT-37, based on the ET concept, as a cheap muscle car since the GTO (and Judge in particular) was getting quite expensive. It was available with all the GTO engine packages as options on a Tempest/T-37 hardtop coupe. It was Pontiac's attempt to compete against the inexpensive Roadrunner. Only 1,419 GT-37s were built in 1970 1/2. In 1971, 8,800 were built, but only 641 had the GTO engine packages (400-4bl, 455 4bl, or 455 HO). Pontiac even created a TV ad where the GTO and GT-37 were pitched together. The GT-37 took some sales away from the GTO based on its much lower price tag. Not smart advertising if you ask me either. "There's a little GTO in every GT-37..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD8yxqO-Pag

Ghosty - don't tell me that JUSTA and I need to buy you some more parts at the Dust Off too?

When I was re-doing the Lemans powertrain in 2004, my local Cottman Transmission found a BOP 400 Turbo case for me, spec'd Coan parts and built the strong tranny I run today based on my 462 (455 bored .030 over). I've not had a single tranny problem. So if there is a Cottman near you, call or talk to them about building you a street performance transmission. Now, I had a complete tranny built from scratch - so it was pricey. I don't think you'd expect the same thing with your Transgo kit.

With a complete car or looking for more parts? That's the real question.

Amazing ad since 3 model years later, the GTO was gone for the next 30 years.

I assume, by looking at the picture, we are talking about the rag joint, correct? Assuming I am correct for the moment, it looks like you have experienced rag joint failure and I would replace the entire rag joint and not just the bracket and nut/bolt. You should be able to get a replacement easily enough at your auto parts store for about $40.00. You can certainly get them from OPGI, YearOne, National Parts Depot, etc.

Depends on the car. If you are doing a concurs restoration and the car was shot in lacquer, you are going to shot lacquer. I will also say that while lacquer goes on very thin (compared to enamel) and requires more coats and clear coats making it much more labor and material intensive. Still you can not beat a lacquer finished when it is rubbed out. So far that reason, I won't throw lacquer under the bus. That said, most enamel base coat/clear coats are the more acceptable way to go with modern cars and trucks, and with raw or properly prepared steel or aluminium.

Great pic....something's miss though.....I can't put my finger on it though. Where did you and JUSTA take the picture?

It might well be worth it my friend. I'll wrench on Franken Chevelles for free beer.

Here is Part 17 - Crank and Run - the final episode in this series it seems. I would like to see the engine in its final destination and see how it performs in the real world too. >http://vimeo.com/71934370

Love the way you think my friend. Yes, that is the answer to a lot of these issues is a pole barn. Two problems - money and location. I figure it will cost between $15-$25k to cement and build the rough structure (finished exterior and rought interior). Another $10-15k (with me doing a lot of the work) to insulate, run electrical, heat, drywall and paint, and then furnish cabinets, etc. to complete the pole barn. So we need to dedicate $25-40k worth of money to this project and it has to come from somewhere. The second problem is last summer I had a contractor come out, he laid out the proposed size of the pole barn in the back yard. It was the maximum size allowed by our zoning laws and subdivision covenants. The wife crapped all over the location and said, "I don't like how it will it will obstruct the view of my backyard". I lost interest in the project ever since then.

JUSTA...do you have a Pontiac shop manual for the Goat? I know you and I talked a lot at your house about the radiator. Do think its possible that someone might have altered the mounting brackets / mounting system to allow that particular radiator to bolt in? I am thinking if you had an exploded view or close up diagram from the shop manual or assembly manual, it might tell the tale on that radiator. I really believe that you have a racer's hack job for a radiator. I would not be surprised if they didn't re-engineer the core support in some way to make it fit too. JUSTA my opinion but it might explain a lot of things.

Well the ad on Craigslist is gone. I have to assume that the truck was sold. So I am off the hook for the moment. There are a couple of 49 and 52 Chevys with dually rear axles available in the area for less than $4k. Dually would be kinda cool but a rough ride at some point. His mother said "we" (meaning him and me) have to work out where we are going to store and work on it. I am waiting for him to initiate that discussion. I am tired of talking about this with him with little or no action or effort on his part. I'd love to do this project but I won't do it in a vacuum either. Plus I still man cave space for my own cars.

GM voluntarily started installing DRLs back in the 90s as a good safety item. In Canada, DRL became mandatory in some foggy coastal provinces prior to that. I am not aware of any state or federal laws mandating DRLs, but other manufacturers followed GM's lead. I am told DRLs consume about .25 to .5 HP to operate (mind you this was back in the 90s when the first came out - I hope they've gotten more efficient)

Which was hard to do? Forcing in down? Or out? I guess you will learn to appreciate what a Charlie Foxtrot, SNAFU, and RUFUBAR means from here on out too.

This looks great and it screams "Danger Will Robinson!" to me. There is no question in my mind that the pictures in the eBay listing are indeed the concept car that Pontiac built. What bothers me is the location of the car - Miami Florida. Why is it in Miami? The GM Heritage Collection is located in Sterling Heights Michigan. So if this is being sold by GM, then I would expect the location to be: Sterling Heights, Warren, or Detroit Michigan. Now, to be fair, GM sold a number of one off cars out of the Heritage Collection during its bankruptcy through Barrett-Jackson. This could have been one of them. However, the eBay post doesn't say that either. So I would have to go to the trouble of contacting this person to verify the car's lineage before I would even consider bidding on this car. Nearly all of the cars sold at Barrett-Jackson were sold on bill of sale and were never intended for use on public streets (unless they were production versions). So titling this car may not be a good idea (the car carries some experimental parts on it and nearly every automotive manufacturer doesn't permit these types of cars or parts to get into the hands of the public for legal / liability reasons). In others words, if you got in an accident with this car and tried to sued GM over it, one could argue that you knew this was a concept car and that it was never intended for public road use. This car is best left as a museum / special interest piece, in my opinion.

This one is dedicated to Havoc - where ever he may be tonight !!!! Be sure to check out the tractor in the video ! >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XZn0Jz_D2k

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkfJbsTOtqg

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCdKiRDdohA&list=PLBBA8B970C1011F5B&index=4 >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPAzinsGGyo&index=4&list=RDALYoQ_-5sUI

A muscial version of one of my favorite jokes: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orh0kV31Bi4