Last Indian

Buddy you couldn’t be more correct, problem is this those people are so evil, so sick & so delusional they’ll never pull out of the spiritual!

Carbon metallic pads use carbon fiber mixed obviously some type of metal shavings, ceramic metallic uses ceramic mixed with metal shavings and organic obviously we all know. You recommendation would be the carbon metallic! They have very good heat tolerance good fade properties excellent stopping power, better than ceramics, yet they are much easier on rotors. With the type of rotors you are getting, I think you would be ahead of the game with carbon metallics. IMO.

I think you’ll be pleased. Nothing like made in the USA! Than you can actually get it! Amazing! Maybe somebody should tell Joe! Oh wait he’s too busy getting the bird poop off his coat!

JustA you need to look closely at the holes they’re not really chamfered. It’s not the size as much as removing the entry & exit of the cone per say. Looking closely you will see there are basically no sharp edge of any kind entering the cross drill hole or exiting it. Those two points are the precipitous of the problem. The hole chamfer isn’t actually a chamfer it’s called a sinusoid curve.

Look good Frosty! I’m only saying this from an informational standpoint & there is absolutely nothing wrong with those rotors, they are nice! And I know you most likely won’t do this, but just in case you would here goes. What Two Lane spoke of with reference to heat & cracking I delved into when I did my brake design way back when. One thing that really helps with that issue is a broader chamfer with a bit of a rounded deburr at both ends of the chamfer. What actually happens is the sharp edge & short distance of the chamfer causes a heat buildup on the two sharp edges. Believe it or not those edges act as block of more accurately a venting point for the heat instead of a smooth transition. Over time this concentration of heat causes a form of work hardening, which ultimately cracks. I don’t have any good pictures of how I did my original rotors, but the ones I bought for the Indian I do. Look closely at the holes! Here are the only rotors I ever found that were done correctly! That was why I bought them.

TLBT, probably won’t help either, but Tire Rack shows stop tech cryogenically treated rotors for you car available & for want ever reason the right rear is on close out for $40.

The only other recommendation I would offer, as I haven’t said it here, is the brake fluid. Bosch sells a ES16 brake fluid. Compared to the other available products, with the exception of pure silicone, which even that needs to be a specific type if you run in cold weather, it is hands down the best! IMO.

Yup! Great choice! Didn’t know you could get the cryogenically hardened one for that year! But obviously you can! Rears too? Those are what I have on the Lacrosses. FYI. The SP rotors while cross drilled have a specific chamfer that is supposed to eliminate the heat issues that causes the cracking. And as far as mine are concerned they have never cracked, still look really good actually. Where or who did you find the cryogenically hardened rotors?

I get mine through O’reilly’s, but I usually have to have them get it in.

The SP rotors are nice units, or at least when I bought mine 18 years ago they were. Hopefully nothing has changed. Just as an fyi, the KYB AGX adjustable are what I have on the Indian & they are nice and they definitely change valving when I adjust them. So much so that I keep them on the softest setting as my wife says the ride is to harsh even on 2, but she doesn’t complain about setting 1. So if I ever go out just to run the Indian through it’s paces I can bump it up to 2 or all the way to 4. Also a little reminder on brake 101. The best stopping power comes from dissimilar materials, I.E. soft vs hard. So cast steel or iron rotors need soft pads. These will stop the best & last the longest, but hard braking for extended periods will result in both brake fade up to & including lose as Kiwi had. Adding metallic pads will help elevate that to some degree, but again it depends on how heated & for how long. Metallic pads tear up soft rotors, I.E. cast steel or iron. Metallic pads need hardened rotors, which for a car are hard to find, so than you must live with just replacing pads & rotors often. When pads become to heated for to long or it happens to many time the pad material becomes degraded & now the pads will fade even at normal use. Cross drilled rotors help with out gassing that’s a fact & that makes them very beneficial. The out gassing when combined with vented & cross drilled rotors aids in cooling the rotors in short term hard braking, but will have little effect in extended hard braking. Last as I indicated before Bosch ES16 brake fluid would be my recommendation for brake fluid.

Great to hear Kiwi!

Sorry Frosty, day later & dollar short. KYB AGX adjustable struts & shocks are really nice because you can change them for the track & back for street if you want. Also a company called SP performance out of New York sell really nice crossdrilled rotors for your car front & rear.

Justa5d(oor) 🧐

A true Pontiac family!

Ahh, dexterity comes with youth pops😆!

I guess I should refine that statement a little better. When I say a piston seal not installed properly or left out, I mean for the clutch pack of 3rd gear. The same applies for the spring comment. You may very well know this, but if not, there is a large diameter piston, 5” or so, in each clutch pack. These pistons a have a seal around them that seals them to the clutch pack housing. These pistons operate much in the same way a brake piston operates. Pressure is applied to the piston which in turn squeezes the clutch pack together. A clutch pack is an assembly of alternating steel plates & fiber plates. The fluid in between them creates the adhesion between them when the piston applies pressure to them. If the fluid is burnt the fluid losses it’s additives that create adhesion and the plates can slip. If the fiber plates are worn there can become clearance between the plates that allow slippage. So the same would hold true if a single fiber plate were left out or an incorrect clearance issue between the plates and their respective interface components existed.

Nor hope too!

could be a valve body issue as I said, but the slippage makes me think friction plates. Why? Usually a valve piston is either applied or not! But if what you describe is slippage, that tends to be clutch plates! So he could have left out a steel or fiber plate. He could have not installed a piston seal correctly or missed it altogether. He could have done something wrong with the piston springs. All of these would cause slippage.

Two Lane, the SP performance rotors come in several different configurations and finish’s, but all the ones I’ve see are quite nice. I presume you are just using the Bird for street, right? If so, extended periods of intense braking are not going to be an issue. Durability and very good braking are. Those come from a good differential in coefficients of friction between rotors & pads. I imagine you know this, but one of the self defeating issues with non slotted/cross drilled rotors & pads is out gassing. Manufactures have tried to address this by grooving pads, but again that is counterproductive. One, pads surface area matters, but rotor surface area doesn’t. Two the grooves are not large enough to have any real benefit on out gassing. Clearly you need to decide what is the best setup for your needs. So two companies that can provide a decent selection of coefficients are Hawk & Winmax. Winmax offers some pad coefficients all the way down to .26. Personally for the SP rotors I would look at a .32 - .37 range. Back in 1979 I designed & built my own brake system for my “69” Z. When I sold the car in 2004 those brakes had 123,000 miles on them. The rotors were never turned, pads never replaced and still only about half used. In those 25 years those brakes were anything but babied. “69” brakes in “79” Sp performance rotor for the Indian rebuilding of Indian calipers Indian front brake

Two Lane, I would always prefer cross drilled rotors. I run these rotors on the Indian. They have been on since 2004. I run EB green stuff pads, but these pads I bought because of their coefficient of friction number, AKA they are soft pads. This setup stops phenomenally! Actually to the point that the car will flat stop in a panic stop situation without engaging the antilocks, it stops that well! Anyway these pads are quite dusty, so there may be other pads that are better now. These are nice rotors! https://www.sp-performance.com/

Yeah it’s not the kick down! Either a valve body issue or, if I read everything right, that the tranny never shifts into 3rd? Is that right? If so the builder left out a clutch plate or friction plate.

Yes! What you experienced are the classic effects of EMF’s! Everyone is different, so what one person experiences from something doesn’t mean everyone will, but that doesn’t mean the non effected individual wasn’t impacted in a physical way. I don’t want this to detract from JustA’s message, but to reinforce it! Everything that JustA presented was accurate! The toxicity of producing these batteries in an every increasing quantity & size is the real global threat! We are poisoning the planet while killing ourselves slowly. EMF’s is just a more effective way to make sure by the powers that be that the job is complete! Think I’m kidding?! Here’s another one for you! The electrical industry uses a product called SF6, (sulfur hexafluoride) in electrical components to control short circuits. It is a synthetic gas. It is 23,500 times more warming in the atmosphere than CO2! It also stays in the atmosphere for 1000 years, or so calculated. In 2017 the amount of this gas that was leaked in Europe equaled to adding another 1,300,000 cars to the roads. Where as CO2 only stays between 1 & 3 years! Here’s another tidbit. There is the same amount or carbon on this planet today as there was when it formed, it constantly changes form, but all of it is carbon! If you think this is just incompetence, think again! This is purposeful and decisive & and being done with a clear head!

Frosty, the process I described works well. Even on older weatherstripping that has cracking. It won’t get ride of the cracking, but it will reduce its appearance & and make it subtle again. The talc idea came out of using it on the weatherstripping of the Indians sunroof. Sunroofs are notorious for leaking as the weatherstripping ages. So I would use the Westley’s a couple times a year. The weatherstripping finally got so pliable it would basically stick to the sunroof frame & I would have to give the glass a little push to make it open. That’s when I dusted it with baby power & no more sticking, but nice pliable weatherstripping.

Ok I can see there is a lot of explaining needed here & it’s very involved. The phone on your belt, turned on, but not operating isn’t a problem! When you are using the phone as a phone, up to your hear it is! Why? Cell phones are considered medium frequency emf devices. This means they transmit non DNA damaging emf’s & their distance of that field is very small. So when you hold the phone to your hear you put your head in that field. The longer you do that & the more often you do that the more likely you are to have adverse conditions from it. So the best choice is put the phone on speaker & hold it away from your head. If you need to have privacy use a bluetooth device. when the phone is turned on & on your belt, but not operating it is only producing an electric field! This is not radiation! Electricity & magnet’s together produce EMF’s! When you coil copper wire around in a specific pattern & charge it with electricity you get an electromagnet. The is what exists in nearly every electrical device we own! When that device operates it produces EMF’s. The bigger the electromagnet the bigger the field and the higher the frequency! The higher the frequency of the EMF’s the more damage/radiation. So for instance, too much exposure to an MRI will both cause severe DNA damage and ultimately cancer. I will explain more later.

I applaud you my friend! Love ya buddy! Folks, every word is true, but, & there is a really really big But to this! All that is above is actually not the most concerning part of this! Every single device that is powered by electrical energy emits EMF! And battery powered devices are the worst! EMF, or electromagnetic fields as they are appropriately named are dangerous in varying degrees depending on their flux strength. So for example sitting 15 feet from your Wi-Fi router is most likely safe unless you you spend 24/7 there, but your cell phone next to you hear 6 or 8 hours a day not so much so. These are low voltage, low flux strength devices. Now imagine setting on top of huge battery driving a high output electric motor 2 feet from your crouch!! Think I’m kidding look it up! At the flux energy level of a full electric car the EMF flux strength is not just enough to cause cancer, but enough to alter DNA permanently! Do you really think there is no connection to lower fertility rates in developed country’s as well as the more affluent of the populous at an increasing rate that correlates to increase use of electrical power?! WAKE UP. This is a lie so big it will swallow us all in one gulp!