L83 and 6L80 in 63 Catalina.

[Old guy44]

64Kiwi, Just A6 and Frosty have requested details on my engine trans upgrade so here goes. I find myself with some spare time hopefully enough to get through the engine mods. The problems I encountered with the L83 are 1. no steering pump. 2. DOD. 3. vacuum source, 4. oil pan and lower hose outlet. 

Steering pump. What aftermarket pump kits I found all mounted the pump on top which would not have worked on my install so the steering pump  replaced the vacuum pump. I did do a cam change with a DOD delete, that required removing the heads so with the engine on the stand heads off waiting for the cam I figured it was a perfect time to attack the steering pump. I used a pump off of an 03 GMC because I own one and it looked to me like it would fit in the desired location. I removed the vacuum pump got plugs for the oil passages and used that mounting location for the pump brackets. Sorry I don't have pictures of the brackets but I cut out a bracket that would bolt to the rear of the pump and another that bolted to the vacuum pump mount  As memory serves me I needed to form that bracket around the engine so it would reach far enough forward to meet up with the pump bracket. Once I had those brackets made I trimmed and tweaked so I could get the pump where I wanted it braced it in place so I could tack weld the two brackets together. Amazingly enough the first tack weld was just right so I welded it up and bolted the pump on. Once bolted on and properly aligned with the crank and water pump pullies I made another bracket for the front of the pump. If you look carefully you can just see it in between the crank and steering pump about an inch or so below the centerline. I used 1/4" steel plate which is probably overkill but my years doing structural steel taught me that nothing ever broke because the steel was too thick. The pump required a small modification as on the GMC the steering pump is in front of the pump and on the Pontiac it is behind so I had to remove the reservoir to heat and bend the return tube so It pointed to the rear. That particular pump was used by GM on hundreds of installations so it is entirely possible that there is an application that has the tube pointing to the rear, but I went with what I knew. Now you have the problem with the belt. The original location for the tensioner was where the current idler is. Obviously there was not room for the tensioner but fortunately there is another tensioner location on the water manifold, I just needed to tap the hole. The tensioner location has very little adjustment so belt length was critical. I believe that the belt I wound up with is a NAPA 060822. However if the pump location varies only slightly the belt length will need to be adjusted. 

The lower hose outlet on the L83 points straight forward which put it about an inch away from the fan shroud. That was not going to work so I removed the water manifold and secured it in the right location and angle in the drill press, took a 1 1/2 in hole saw and cut a pocket for a new outlet tube.  I picked up a scrap of .120 wall aluminum tube of the correct diameter for the lower hose fit it into the pocket and had it tig welded into the water manifold. Because cast aluminum does not weld real great I checked it with air pressure in a water tank and had a couple of spots that needed to be redone. The last couple of small air leaks I took care of with JB weld.

Oil Pan was easy, at the time Holley was the only manufacturer that made a shallow pan for the L83 so Holley it was. It fits fine and works well.

DOD delete. I called COMP cams direct gave them details of what I was building. They asked me for all pertinent information, car weight, gear ratio, tire size, intended use and all the other related stuff and they made me a custom grind that is in my estimation perfect for what I wanted. It still has a minimal amount of cam advance, starts putting out HP at 800 RPM and is all through at 5800 RPM. The cam came with the stretch to yield head bolts and the plugs for the DOD oil holes.

Just a word on if I knew then what I know now. I eliminated the engine oil cooler. Thinking about it now If I were to do it again I might have tried harder to keep it. The L83 has an 11:1 compression ratio and will run regular fuel. Part of that is combustion chamber design but the rest is controlling piston temperature. There are oil nozzles that spray a continuous stream of oil on the bottom of the piston and the fuel nozzles spray a flat fuel spray into the combustion chamber. That spray is similar to the expansion valve on an air conditioner. fuel at high pressure spraying out causes a dramatic drop in temperature. Being able to control combustion chamber temp is critical to the full throttle HP. If the combustion chamber starts heating up it will cause knock which will retard the timing and cause a noticeable drop in HP. More on this when we get to the final tune. But oil temp will affect the balance here.

I will get to the vacuum source later on

        

[Frosty]

Awesome start already Old Guy! Thank you very much. I can't wait to see your next installment. This is hot rodding at it's finest.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Frosty

[JUSTA6]

Nice job on the engine and the write up! Waitin on the next chapter. 

[64 kiwi boni]

Top notch old guy 

[Old guy44]

Installment 2.

Now that insanityclaus is back in his hole for about 300 days maybe things can get back to as normal as they can be in the present climate so, lets talk about the car. I started with a midwestern car with 43,000 miles on it. Normally I would not buy a midwestern car because of the rust issue but it was a one owner car and the mileage indicated it probably was a fair weather car so I took a chance. The chrome is all original just had to buff some of it out. The floor and trunk pans are fine but I did need to repair some rust spots by the wheel openings. It looked good in the pictures but someone had done some really substandard repair on it. With the front sheet metal off and disassembled it was not a difficult repair on the front fenders, the rear was a little more labor intensive. The paint that is on it is a one step paint designed for commercial application. Tractors, trucks, trailers and any other thing that needs a durable paint. I have an acquaintance that mixed up the color for me. It is close to the original but not quite. Good part is that everyone that saw the new against the old likes the new better. I went around the car one panel at a time doing the body work and painting. At some point I will peel off all the trim and have someone shoot a final coat of paint on it but in the mean time it looks quite presentable.

Typical of convertibles of the era it did not have A/C. I live in Southern California where we have an abundance of sunshine and often triple digit heat. My wife will not get into a non air conditioned car. So the first order of business was to somehow get an A/C into it. The unit you see on the firewall came from a late 90’s vintage Crown Victoria. The under dash part fit with the defroster outlet in the right location so it was selected. The firewall portion was modified to fit with a custom made fan housing and the dash outlets are the correct factory ones. If you have ever paid attention to the dash on a 63 it has multiple compound curves on the sides of the dash where the outside vents go. If you have the right size hole saw and know exactly where the center of the hole is it would be about a ten minute job to install those outlets. As I had neither I made a template out of an aluminum pop can that fit the outlet, placed it over the dash where it fit, marked it and cut a hole smaller than the template. I spent the next several hours with a die grinder making them fit in the correct location. I got close enough that no one has said anything but it is not perfect. I adapted the Ford fan switch onto the Pontiac heat control and with much effort I mounted the vacuum control where the cigarette lighter used to live operated by the original lighter knob. Modified the transition door to manual and connected it to the temp cable from the factory control. Built an outlet box for the A/C outlet with three hose connections in it and everything works. On the inlet side I fabricated a box that fits in the fresh air cavity inside the right foot vent to supply fresh or recirculating air to the fan. It is a rather complex box for someone that does not have access to sheet metal forming equipment but I prevailed. I had to make two as the first did not work, don’t remember why. The only problem encountered is that there is no longer any room for the factory radio so went with an aftermarket amfm and had to modify the glove box liner where the under dash unit encroached on the space. All in all, it finally worked out and now works adequately. Heat film on the windows will help eventually but it is so darned expensive. It is on the to do list but there are things above it.

The original system never did work right, it was fine while moving but at a signal the outlet temp would start to climb immediately. With no heat film on the windows and a convertible top that is not insulated it takes a lot of cold air to maintain the cabin temperature.

When I did the L83 conversion I started with the worst wreck I have ever seen. The truck went off the road hit something with the left frame horn and did an endo landing right at the top of the windshield. There was not a useable piece of sheet metal on the truck anywhere. But the engine and trans and nothing on the bottom was hurt. So having the entire A/C unit off of the truck I adapted the truck evaporator to the Ford housing and it now maintains temperature regardless of ambient temp or vehicle movement. My first car was a 56 corvette. A teenager in a corvette is not a good combination but it did teach me fiberglass work which I put to good use in adapting the evaporator. Before you ask YES I wish I had it back.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

Lets talk about the car.docx

[64 kiwi boni]

cool write up 

[Old guy44]

The final installment will be the actual engine/trans install. I did actually find some pictures that I forgot I had taken

[Old guy44]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The engine trans install. It was pretty obvious when I got the engine completely assembled that there was going to be a lot of cutting and welding on the crossmember. The steering pump and A/C compressor were hanging on the bottom which was fine for the truck but not so for the Pontiac.  So I took everything off that I could so I has a clean slate to work with. Looking at the two transmissions it was obvious that more room would be needed in the trans hump so in addition to taking all the front end sheet metal off I removed the front seat and front carpet took a cutting wheel and made three cuts. One at the front of the flat section of the trans hump, one at the rear of where the new trans would be and one down the middle. I peeled the two sides back and left them until I eventually got the engine and trans mounted. Anyone familiar with GM’s of the era knows that the crossmembers like to sag making it impossible to correctly align the front end. So knowing that I would be doing a lot of welding on the crossmember I started by putting a floor jack under the crossmember running chains from frame rail to frame rail under the jack and putting as much pressure as I could on the bottom of the crossmember to jack it up and then welded a piece of 3/16 X2 flat stock on to the bottom of the crossmember to buttress it. I put the engine and trans in to get an approximate position and marked the crossmember where the steering and A/C pumps would be. Took the engine and trans back out so I could cut the crossmember. You can see by the picture that the driveway is on quite an angle so every time the assembly went in or out it had to be jacked in and out with a come a long. Cut the pockets in the crossmember and back in it went. I positioned it so it just cleared the firewall, blocked it in place and marked the position of the motor mounts. Back out again and took some ½” plate and positioned it under the top of the crossmember.  With the pockets cut out for the pumps it was a simple matter to put the plates in. made some holes in the crossmember to weld the plates in place, drilled and tapped them to accept the motor mounts. I used clamshell mounts from 90’s vintage Chevy Caprice. Bolted the mounts down and back in with the assembly. Fabricated the engine to mount brackets bolted everything down and checked the pockets for the pumps. Back out again. Bent up some plate to fit in the pump pockets and welded them up. Back in and bolt everything down. The rear mount was simple. Used the factory truck mount, moved the crossmember forward about 2” and everything bolted down. Started with the trans hump, heating and beating until the floor pan had about a quarter inch of clearance everywhere. Tack welded a couple of tabs across the 2” hole in the top of the trans hump and back out again. Just for information I have a small mig welder that I got from Harbor Freight that uses .030 wire. It has a limited duty cycle but it is small and can be moved around easily and works great on sheet metal. I have a 250 amp combination stick/mig machine that will burn a good penetration on ¼ plate with the mig but it is almost useless on sheet metal. It runs .035 wire and it is amazing how much difference .005 in wire diameter makes in mig welding. I cut strips of sheet metal and pieced the trans hump together. Back in with the assembly and bolted it down and when I looked at it I realized that the engine is pretty long. So some rough measurements showed that I did not have room for the radiator and fans. Kicked myself around the block about three times and back out with the assembly. Me and a 4 pound hammer made some more room at the firewall which gave me another 1 ½” to move the engine back but that required moving the motor mounts  back and redoing the pump pockets. It also meant that the trans moved back 1 1/2” so the trans hump no longer fit. Don’t know how many times the engine/trans were in an out as I was heating and beating on the trans hump but it was a lot. Finally got it back and everything to clear with at least a quarter inch. After coating the trans hump top and bottom with seam sealer, it went back in I thought for the final time and I started attaching everything. Used the first foot of the truck down pipes and they welded to the Pontiac exhaust fine. Did all the wiring on the engine and tied it into the Pontiac loom. Put the radiator header in and put in some struts that I had made before taking the front end sheet metal off so it would be positioned correctly for the fender mount holes. Went to fit the radiator and found that it needed to fit lower than anticipated so had to do the surgery on the front frame horns. Got the trans cooler lines connected with much bending and rebending as things are a little tight as you can see from the picture. I eliminated the engine oil cooler because of the space issue. When I went to connect the pumps I found that I needed to detail the pump wells because the hoses I thought I could get were not available for the A/C compressor and the pressure hose for the steering pump required an adapter that I did not plan on so back out and more surgery. Fortunately, it was just heat and beat. This time it actually went back in for the final time. When I went to bolt the front bumper back on I found that the frame horns were moved about an inch to the left. I have no explanation how that happened because I did the horns one at a time and had a bar bolted between them. I have gone over that modification numerous times and still have no plausible explanation. That required cutting braces jacking everything over and rewelding. The bumper now fits as it should but I am not sure that I am willing to trust the bumper jack if I ever need to change a flat so I carry the truck scissor jack with me.

 

I lied this will not be the last installment that will be final details and things I would  do differently if I had it to do over.

 

Forgot this picture

 

e

[64 kiwi boni]

Great write up old guy.... and here i was thinking any engine  would fit piece of piss into a big frame like a wide tracker!!!! 😏 NOT haha

[Old guy44]

Final hookups. Lets see if we can’t finish this thing up. If you are going to use an LT there are a few things that will be problematic. The first thing is the loom you choose. Be careful of your supplier. I actually purchased two, the first did not have the correct connectors at the front of the engine for the cam advance and would not even start the engine. Don’t remember who it was but they were in Michigan. After repeated attempts to contact them unsuccessfully I gave up and got my credit card company involved. Long story short they eventually said to send it back and when they got confirmation that the supplier had received it they refunded my money. I then spoke to a friend of a friend who had done several LS installs and he said to contact Howell for a loom. They supplied me with a loom and did a bench program on the PCM. I plugged it in connected 4 wires and it started right up. I like the Howell loom because it has a long loom for the PCM which allows the PCM to be installed inside the vehicle. Getting the PCM out of the engine bay makes for much cleaner wiring. Because the A/C unit takes up so much room under the dash I needed to make a box that is installed in the left foot vent for the PCM. It is not readily available but that is the only spot that had enough room. Now here is where the confusion starts. At the time of my install LT installations were still relatively new. The Howell loom came with four external relays. One for the PCM and ALDL. One for the injectors and coils. One for the O2 sensors and one for the trans. It also comes with a connector kit to connect to the factory cooling fans. So the obvious assumption is that the cooling fans will work through the PCM. Not so. There is a wire connected to one of the relays that has an aux fan label on it to connect to the A/C clutch. Connecting it to the A/C does in fact send power to the fans but the fans don’t run. Seems that the original truck fans are brushless motors that work through a square wave signal. That signal is not available through the computer. Hayden who is a familiar name in the area of engine cooling does now make an auxiliary switch that supposedly works through the PCM to supply that signal to PWM fan motors but I do not know of anyone that has actually installed one. I went to earlier brush motor fans and they worked fine with the system. At the time I contacted Howell and they knew nothing of the PWM fan issue at that time. In addition the PCM does not trigger the fan relay, I needed to install a Davies Craig digital fan switch DC 0444 to get the fans to work with the A/C off. The last I heard no one had figured out how to trigger the fans through the PCM but no matter it is a relatively easy fix.

Next on the list is fuel. The Indian fuel tank had no means of installing an in tank pump so I went with a Walbro 255 frame mounted pump. A word of caution here. Make sure that you have a Walbro and not a Chinese knock off. I originally ordered a Walbro and the supplier substituted a knock off which lasted for about 4 or 5 thousand miles, thanks to the Auto club I got home. The Walbro pump has a lot of writing on the case and the knock off has none. Secondly is the fuel supply to the high pressure pump. The LT has a cam driven pump that supplies up to 2600psi to the fuel nozzles so the electric pump is only supplying “low pressure” to the engine driven pump. If you look on line you will find a very well written article about fuel control through the electric pump. The article goes into great detail about why you need to wire in the original fuel control module to more precisely control the fuel pressure to the engine driven pump. The article goes into great detail and has a lot of logical sounding arguments but here is where theory and reality conflict. Don’t know about you but my years in the car scene have proven to me that reality and theory don’t always travel the same road. I have a 200 something Corvette filter regulator that has a pressure regulator built into it. They are easy to find, they are all over ebay. There is an inlet from the electric pump and outlet to the engine pump and a return line that is keeping the pressure at 46? psi. Don’t remember exactly what it is but it has been working flawlessly for over 10,000 mi so far, except for the pump failure.

Another issue with the L83 is vacuum for power brakes with the vacuum pump removed. I picked up vacuum at the throttle body. When every electrical connection on the wire loom had been accounted for and the engine ran there was one thing on the left side of the throttle body that was not connected. I pulled the throttle body off took whatever it is off and found a hole. I drilled it out and tapped it to 3/8 24, ran a die over a piece of 3/8 copper tubing and found that it screwed in just fine. I put my piece of tubing into a flaring tool to make a bubble on the end and screwed it into the throttle body. Put some JB weld on it, screwed it in and let it sit overnight. I fabricated a vacuum tank that fits underneath the battery and the system works just fine. I do have vacuum valves all over the system to keep things from draining the tank. The same thing could be accomplished anywhere on the plenum. It looks like there are individual runners but in reality the plenum is just an open space. All the ribs on the top give the appearance of individual runners but not so.

Now to the final tune. I had it running for over a year looking for someone who could dial in the PCM. What Howell supplied ran fine but there were little trans glitches that bugged me from time to time but I could not find a tuner. I finally found Andy Burdess in Iowa 641-691-7452 who worked with me for about a month and a half dialing it in. Could not be happier with the results and he was very reasonable. Fixed all the trans glitches and got me about 40-50 more full throttle HP. Have not put enough miles on it to verify but it seems to be getting better mileage also. Somewhere in this narrative I mentioned the engine oil cooler lines. The HP he got me on full throttle was a lean on full throttle which caused a knock that backed down the timing. The L83 has 11:1 compression and runs on regular fuel. Combustion temperature is critical in allowing this. Part of this is that the fuel is spraying in under tremendous pressure.
When this happens, it is the same phenomenon as the expansion valve on you’re A/C, it causes a tremendous drop in temperature. The other thing is that there are nozzles in the crankcase that spray oil on the bottom of the pistons to cool the crown. In my case the way I drive the absence of the oil cooler is not an issue. If however you plan on performance and driving hard oil temperature could be an issue. If the oil gets hot enough it could raise the piston temperature and cause a knock that will retard the timing. Just a thought.

The air intake is a unit I picked up on ebay which is working fine. My original thought was to use the truck air box but the engine bay is too full of engine. If you have noticed the dent in the intake tube it is to clear the hood ribs. The pan is a half inch away from the crossmember. So the issue of fit is that there is not as much room in the engine bay as it appears.

Another issue with the L83 is vacuum for power brakes with the vacuum pump removed. I picked up vacuum at the throttle body. When every electrical connection on the wire loom had been accounted for and the engine ran there was one thing on the left side of the throttle body that was not connected. I pulled the throttle body off took whatever it is off and found a hole. I drilled it out and tapped it to 3/8 24, ran a die over a piece of 3/8 copper tubing and found that it screwed in just fine. I put my piece of tubing into a flaring tool to make a bubble on the end and screwed it into the throttle body. Put some JB weld on it, screwed it in and let it sit overnight. I fabricated a vacuum tank that fits underneath the battery and the system works just fine. I do have vacuum valves all over the system to keep things from draining the tank. The same thing could be accomplished anywhere on the plenum. It looks like there are individual runners but in reality the plenum is just an open space. All the ribs on the top give the appearance of individual runners but not so.

Now to the final tune. I had it running for over a year looking for someone who could dial in the PCM. What Howell supplied ran fine but there were little trans glitches that bugged me from time to time but I could not find a tuner. I finally found Andy Burdess in Iowa 641-691-7452 who worked with me for about a month and a half dialing it in. Could not be happier with the results and he was very reasonable. Fixed all the trans glitches and got me about 40-50 more full throttle HP. Have not put enough miles on it to verify but it seems to be getting better mileage also. Somewhere in this narrative I mentioned the engine oil cooler lines. The HP he got me on full throttle was a lean on full throttle which caused a knock that backed down the timing. The L83 has 11:1 compression and runs on regular fuel. Combustion temperature is critical in allowing this. Part of this is that the fuel is spraying in under tremendous pressure. When this happens, it is the same phenomenon as the expansion valve on you’re A/C, it causes a tremendous drop in temperature. The other thing is that there are nozzles in the crankcase that spray oil on the bottom of the pistons to cool the crown. In my case the way I drive the absence of the oil cooler is not an issue. If however you plan on performance and driving hard oil temperature could be an issue. If the oil gets hot enough it could raise the piston temperature and cause a knock that will retard the timing. Just a thought.

The air intake is a unit I picked up on eBay which is working fine. My original thought was to use the truck air box but the engine bay is too full of engine. If you have noticed the dent in the intake tube it is to clear the hood ribs. The pan is a half inch away from the crossmember. So the issue of fit is that there is not as much room in the engine bay as it appears.

The power steering and A/C were a matter of having hoses made up. The A/C compressor is a variable displacement and the destroke is also controlled by square wave. I just connected the destroke to the clutch signal line so it is always at full stroke and am controlling the clutch through an adjustable low pressure switch on the return line. I have had it out in triple digit weather and it blows a steady 42 degrees at the center outlet. That could probably be dialed in a few degrees lower but the switch is not conveniently located.  

Now things that I would have done differently. I mentioned that I welded a strap to the bottom of the crossmember. My thought was that it would stabilize the crossmember and prevent movement from the heat of all the welding. Again, theory and fact on different roads. It did not work. All the welding pulled the top of the frame members in and now the best I can do on the alignment is 0 camber and 0 caster so the steering is a bit twitchy. Eventually I will pull the front fenders off again and grind the upper control arm mounts off and move them out about 3/8 of an inch. If I knew then what I know now I would have made a couple of jacks out of at least a 1” fine thread bolt that I could have placed between the tops of the frame members on either side of the crossmember to keep pressure on them while the welds cooled. The other thing is the front frame horns. I mentioned that they would up being off quite a bit. If I had it to do over I would have found a better way to stabilize them. And lastly the engine placement. Those things are bigger than they look. I would have measured more closely at the beginning to make sure that the fit was right. Would have saved me a lot of work.

Hopefully this narrative which has turned more into a book than into a post will be of some use to someone.

If there are any questions I have not answered let me know.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Old guy44

[64 kiwi boni]

i think you did a great job old guy👍 well done and great detail 

is that injection pressure correct at 2600 psi ?

 i can relate to the walbro pump, i bought a kit from tanks inc and it came with a walbro  in tank pump, very happy with it as i had done my home work on them and all comments i found said they where a good pump..

i did like your idea of installing the pcm inside the car, makes for a happy pcb👍

Edited December 30, 2020 by 64 kiwi boni

[Old guy44]

So I read on the injector pressure that it can go that high. I do know that with all the sound deadening off of the engine the injectors click like valve noise.

Now you know why this will be my last car. I don't have another build like this left in me. I would have liked to have had this combination when I cruised Van Nuys boulevard in the 60's. Maybe my memory is rusty but I do not remember ever having anything this fast back then.