Last Indian

On 12/27/2023 at 3:40 PM, Frosty said:

I can indeed answer that question Last Indian.

The first production use of red dash lights on a Pontiac was the 1979 Tenth Anniversary Trans Am (sometimes referred to as the TATA). They were not available on any other Pontiac that year. They finally became standard on all Firebirds in 1982 (with the 3rd generation Firebird). They were later integrated into all other Pontiac models during the 1980's. Interesting to note that the 2004-2006 GTO does not have red dash lights since it was built in Australia.

Thanks Frosty! I could have sworn that I remember way older Pontiac’s having them! Must be olds timers! Or maybe it’s just because I’ve never had anything but red dash lights in anything. As I always change them. That is until the Lacrosse’s! Not even going to attempt that dash! What a nightmare!

Well right now with the car up for winter I can’t really get the doors open wide enough to take the old sill plates off. But this is the red interior they would get added to.

I’m sure most Pontiac faithful know some of the history of Pontiac’s red dash lights! They are of legend. And while I can’t find specifically when the first Pontiac used it,  I can’t think of a time they weren’t. Why & where the decision to use red came from I can only speculate! Perhaps Frosty knows? Or can obtain that info, but till then I would argue for my usually reason; the old timers were pretty damn smart. You see, because of the wavelength of red light, it offers some distinct advantages that came in very handy, noticeably so during WWI forward. Red light does not night blind, but all other colors do, but in various degrees depending on their wavelength. This means when you glance up from your gages that are not red your eyes have to adjust to the darker conditions around you. It may only take seconds, but that may be all the difference needed between seeing a deer coming from a darkened area or not! Also when you look forward out the windshield, above the dash, the red lighted dash basically disappears from your peripheral down vision. So you are not distracted by that light. That is not the case with the brighter greenish or blueish etc. dash lights.

Today in cities & most urban areas you don’t really notice the night blindness issue as much as you did 30, 40 or 50 years ago. One, most of these areas are well lit now! Way back even 20 & 30 years a lot of these areas had no lights at all! Yet when they did start to light them they did so with white light. Over time it was realized that the white light not only cased certain visual problems, but we’re less effective! So, do you realize that the principal behind those red dash lights are why most street lights started changing over to amber/reddish street lights we have today. 

Anyway, long way around to my purpose. What light color to use for the sill plates? JustA’s Pontiac down light that I have shining on the front carpet is red! My side dome lights are red! When is red to much red? So take a look & tell me what you think. And it is really hard to get a good representation of what these sill plates look like when lit!

A little more detail added, still going to take multiple assemble & disassemble steps to get the effect I want. Guess that’s the price of playing. 

The real un come in when I have to make the reverse orientation for the other side. Not sure what I’ll do with the back quite yet.

This will be a center insert within a cavity space.

This will be a clear cover over the Indian head

this is the top plate. The bottom & top series of holes have two different purposes. Starting with the outer first holes. Every other hole is an attachment hole for a stainless steel panhead Allen screw, than a open hole to display light.

this is the polycarbonate plate. There are two grooves cut into the plate with a ball end mill to reflect light up through the corresponding slots. Above & below those grooves are taped holes for the screws, as well partially countersunk holes to reflect light

below is a picture of the original replacment sill plates I built right after I bought the car new.

D3D81468-10AA-476C-8CA9-41E12619D5A8.webp

So I’ve been itching to get started on my little project that I mentioned! Not to mention putting in the new sway bar, machining a second aluminum finned top for the back aluminum valve covers I bought. Tear apart half of the motor to do so, downside of an FWD! Buy another chromed alternator to put in, since all of that is apart, last one took a dump 7 years ago, & fingers crossed should finish my mates project shortly after Christmas! JustA in time to start the inside house projects, yeah! 
But I took a little time the past two weeks, in between leaf cleanup & last minute outside S- - t before the white crap comes down. To get started on the basic concept. The idea is to build new sill plates that are illuminated like you can buy, but these will be, I hope a new level of cool & Pontiac old school specific! The first one is already starting to take shape. These are really going to be time consuming because of the detail & the need to get the right angles cut in the polycarbonate to carry the light across multiple cuts & cavities in the polycarbonate. Not to mention the polishing!

Well, still trying to carve out some time to finish things before winter set in completely. Then I might have a month maybe five weeks before the winter inside house projects start. So I hope to get my mates job done & start my new idea I mentioned, but in the meantime I got a couple new things to install on the Indian before next season. 
A new bigger 1” solid rear sway bar. This should really let me straighten out the corners. Also a set of 3800 aluminum valve covers that I can add my top added pieces to! These should make a nice add as opposed to the current lower fiber valve covers that I have the covers on. 

I couldn’t be happier for ya buddy! More than deserving! A lot of folks buy their toys, & that’s ok, but in my opinion you don’t get the right to that swag without the investment of blood, sweat & tears! Not mention skinned knuckles, bad shoulders, worn out knees, scars, dents in you head! Ok I’m starting to feel nauseous & dizzy!

ENJOY the RIDE & the attention!

Really nice work Wrongway! You been busy buddy! Not sure if it’s something that helps or not. There’s a process that you could explore called PVD, (physical vapor deposition), this has replaced a good share of chrome plating in America. It’s cleaner, way less chemicals & has some distinct advantages over chrome plating. You can easily have it repaired if it gets damaged. It’s harder than chrome plating & significantly lighter. It comes in many colors as well as chrome. In the chrome form it can be very difficult to tell it’s not chrome. Most chrome wheels today are PVD. I don’t know the cost vs plating though. It’s more than likely there are places in your area that do this process that could advise you though.

9 hours ago, Bonne61 said:

Thanks for that-I’ll chase the vacuum solution.

As for fuel pressure-prior to this issue the pump (Holley mechanical) was working perfectly. Also, if it was fuel pressure wouldn’t it deteriorate rather than improve as the revs/speed increased, due to poor delivery?

In general that can be true, but I have seen a hole in a diaphragm leak at low speed because of the slower movement of the bellows/diaphragm, but not at higher speeds. Because the speed of the diaphragm movement is enough to overcome the supply issue, for a while anyway, but over time the hole will deteriorate & get larger. 
If by chance the issue is electrical, & I doubt it is, it could be either + or - issues. Sorry, but if you are running a 12 volt system with a 12 volt coil you better have 12 volts at the supply side of the coil when the engine is running & somewhere in the neighborhood of 30,000 volts or more coming out of it. Otherwise you have problems, but they would not be intermittent in the way you described. 
The issue sounds like fuel, which can be caused by a vacuum leak. Which puts you on the lean side of fuel& can even cause missing & backires!

3 hours ago, Bonne61 said:

Hey @Frostyand @64 kiwi boni,

Thanks for your replies-fuel filter is clean, carby has been stripped & cleaned, base gasket is new, plugs (BP5S) were replaced, & have since been pulled & checked a few times now (I even swapped the them over in case that might highlight something), points look as new (as Is distributor, rotor & cap), there is no arcing or witness marks inside the cap or on the rotor, the vacuum lines from the brake booster & distributor vacuum advance are both in place & secure.

Anything else I could be missing (no pun intended)?

Ok, a couple things. First is it a miss or is it a stumble/ hesitation? They can seem similar, but the causes are very different. I would tend to agree with Frosty. Your description sounds more like a vacuum leak. Why? A miss doesn’t go away. Doesn’t go away on a power increase usually. But a vacuum leak can be like that! You need to get a can of spray ether. Than methodical check your intake gaskets & the carb gasket. There are a lot of variations in carb gaskets & I have seen a lot of carb gasket leaks that cause havoc to people because they never suspect that gasket. Also I would suggest checking your fuel pressure. Just because you replaced it doesn’t mean there isn’t a problem with the diaphragm. I have seen new fuel pumps have a small hole in the diaphragm.

Great find Ringo! Kudos for the build! Always glade to see younger guys pickup the torch, to continue a God given gift!

Everyone’s approach may differ, but the results are what count & that’s what makes each of us unique. The young fella did a great job!

I’m way to old to start such a project like this now, but I had mulled this conversion 20 years ago! Mine was a little more straightforward, as things were different than & I’m old school. I was going to gut the whole floor, starting at the firewall. Cut it off at the rockers & at the backend of the trunk floor, as I did with my “69” & “74”. Build a full frame to fit with a configuration that would house a small block V8 & a 700R4, with a Jag independent rear end. Dump all the computer crap rewire the car. Keep the inside with the same interior, & we’re all good! But in the end I decided to build a FWD ground pounder since I had already done the whole full frame/floor etc. etc. thing twice before.

I also felt it was, for me, a bigger challenge to build a better FWD, with better weight distributed, superior handling/cornering performance & a facelift that tweaked that tasty muscle car look that only lasted for the length of the seventh generation GP.

I do have to agree that folks just don’t view any of the FWD cars in the same light as RWD cars no matter how aggressive they look & no matter how well they perform. The 1997-2003 Grand Prix was a throwback design to the “60’s” coke bottle look & the last, at least to date! It had one of the most aggressive looks of any FWDs with just a little work they could look just plain nasty. Remember this Pontiac & only Pontiac had a supercharger! The GTP’s performance rivaled most of the V8 performance numbers being produced at the time. While the 7th generation GP sold well, it has never been able to hold a candle, in most folks opinion, to the G8! Which is amazing if you look at just the statistics. And yet how many of those folks actually saw a G8 up close & personal? Actually drove one? To actually critique it’s handling & performance? Few! Since only 38,159 G8’s were ever built! In both years of production it never even came close to any of the previous year GP numbers & both years saw large quantities of unsold G8’s left in inventory. 

My daughter bought a 2008 G8 GT V8, I drove it, worked on it & while she loved the car, she had never owned any car with that type of power, so of course it would impress! Yet even she had to admit that the 2001 GP that she owned before it she liked better! Had a much nicer interior, a more muscle car look & when she drove the Indian she admitted it handle better, was nearly as quick up to about 60, had better brakes & was hands down more comfortable.

10 hours ago, notallthere said:

Furnace guys will be herre on the 15th for a ceiling mount.  I will install my 60 gallon compressor and the hoist had to wait for a year for the concrete to cure more.  Drywall is going up.

 

Probably to late, but one thing I did when I built my shop & expanded my garage was to plumbed 1” black pipe from where my compressor is located into the attic. Then make drop downs inside each wall with air chucks connections. out of the drywall. This way I don’t have to drag a hose all over the shop or garage. I can just make a connection close to where I need it. 

On 10/20/2023 at 5:43 PM, cowboydanny said:

Just the inspiration I need to see to get working on my 31 4 door. Thanks for sharing here for us all to follow along. 

Ohhh yeah! 31 can inspire! No doubt.

Let’s make it an OHIO trifecta!

The Last Indian

When it’s fun, it’s not work!! That s- - - s fun!