Last Indian

Well, my guess would be that from the 2nd generation to the 4th they are different, not sure where the 3rd falls. 2nd gen used a synthetic neoprene foam, I think (see below). This foam had a very thin skin that covered it. It was used for doors, trunk lids, T-tops Etc. The two main problems with this material was, first if you cut scraped or ripped the skin it was junk! It would then absorb water like a sponge. Secondly it had a bad tendency to take comprehension set over time and no chemistry would return it to normal. Mainly because the cell structure under the skin, towards the center of the piece had collapsed. By the 4th gen I’m pretty sure we were at EPDM weatherstripped. This may not be 100% accurate, with respect to materials for the different generations though, it has been a long time since I’ve seen the different generations up close to inspect all the specifics. I remember that I found a newer trunk weatherstripe from a different GM, but I don’t remember which, it could have even been from the “74”, but it wasn’t neoprene foam it was EPDM. Yet it had the right profile for the “69” trunk, so I bought a roll from the dealer and replaced what I had.

we men are sooooo screwed this is just temporary! Wait tell you retire!😳

Yes, I’m old! But mine works when the power goes down or there are no batteries!😁 I have channel locks, 10 pair, multiple sizes, no problem! Thought this might be of interest. If so I can do some other products. Ok, I know everybody has there own thoughts, opinions, likes & dislikes. This isn’t about that! This is just for informational knowledge. Stewy got me thinking about how folks approach cleaning a car, inside & or out & related often times to the products they use. Many of us use products that we know nothing about other than we think we like the way they work, feel or smell! Maybe everybody else said this is a great product. Having spent most of my career in the automotive chemical industry I tended to approach things a little different. Even when I use a new product and I like it I need to know it’s chemical structure, as much as I can. Some products are harder than others because if they use trade secrets than that makes it tuff, but when they use certain chemicals they have to disclose them and in some cases even in a trade secret situation they can’t really hide the odor of some chemistries, if you know what they smell like. Here’s an example. Treating neoprene rubber weatherstrip trim (EPDM) vs windshield rubber trim or belt line trim, (in most cases neoprene). While they are similar in many ways they are uniquely different. One of those ways are the plasticizer they use. This makes what each one will absorb and react with different. Than the manner in which a treatment chemistry is formulated will also determine it positive or negative impact on the material. Black Magic tire wet is probably not something most of you use on your cars or tires! Yet for EPDM weatherstripping, doors trunk and hood it’s the only thing I use! Why, because it uses a particular silicone chemistry, not silicon, that coupled with the dispersant make it ideal to keep that material soft and protected and keeps it from getting those fractures lines you see in that material. But it is a terrible product for tires! As a general rule I don’t use it on windshield trim or belt line trim, except maybe once every couple years. In those cases I use a specific brush. I paint it on and just let it sit, it doesn’t really soak in. It just sits there, this is because of the elastomer. After a day I go back and wipe it off, the surface will than have a more subtle feel, not as hard and blacker in appearance. Sun roof, this is a whole different animal. Some of you may have had one leak. That would be because GM in general uses a EPDM material with a different elastomer, to withstand more heat, but without the proper treatment it oxidizes, gets hard and shrinks. Yes, they sell a treatment to maintain this trim, but at best it only extends the life of this trim. Using the Black Magic tire wet maybe once a year will bring this trim to life! But it needs done in a specific way. Open the glass, using a high quality ½ brush, paint on the tire wet, let it set, in about 15 minutes wipe off what’s left. Close the glass, if the glass closes and opens without sticking, the rubber has degraded, shrunk and you will need to do this again in a few weeks and so on till the glass doesn’t want to open. Once the glass doesn’t what to open, whither the first time or later on, you when need to take a second ½ brush and apply talcum powder to the trim. Close the glass it will close and open nicely. After that apply your regular treatment like usual.

Normally I would say you’re right! One problem! That heir is my daughter, single daughter! 46 year old single daughter. She likes cars; yes, but if we go back to to top where this started, women and interior cleanliness! Well you see where it’s going to end up! 😳 It will probably end up a fire sale. She would have no idea or patience! The tools, carbide tooling, machine tools and machinist tools alone are worth a pretty chuck a change. She wouldn’t care!

Believe me Stewy, it’s not the cabinet space I lack! It’s just impossible to shove 1000 lbs of s- - t into a half quart bag! I JustA got way to much stuff! This is JustA in my shop that’s a separate room at the rear of my garage. I quite literally have enough engine oil, tranny fluid, antifreeze, solvents, lacquer thinner, nitrile gloves, kemtech precision wipes, SS bolts, nuts, washers, end mills, lathe bits, drill bits, and on and on! Then when I add in the car care products, steel stock of every metallurgy, shape and size, I don’t think I will every use half of it. And yet I still buy here and there! So you see there is no room at the inn! No place to build a bigger cabinet! I really need to start weeding out stuff!

I know exactly what you mean! Believe it or not this is just some of my stock! Right now I can’t get to some of the rest of it to snap a pick. these are only about a forth of the towels and micro fiber towels I have the rest are stored in the attic or in my shop. this goes back 2 1/2 feet waxes cleaners polish etc.

You should do something on there! I like to see other folks approaches to things! My cars don’t take me that long, but I have always been called very anal, with good reason I guess! If you add up all the time I spend on a particular car it might be that much! I wash and wax a car in the winter each time It goes out, plus I clean the interior, front to back, each area with its own type of treatment. All also clean the engine compartment and use special treatments there as well. In the summer, at least once a week if it doesn’t get rained on! The Indian - - - that’s a whole other story!

Maybe this title should be on the heavier side! 😳!

That’s my experience kiwi! Way back into the mid “60” I would go junkyard hunting for parts with buddies when we were racing and the interchangeability between Chevy, Buick, Olds & Pontiac, both mechanically and body was incredible.

This past week I had a chance to get started on the insert plates for the NACA duct inlets. left side close to done, little more too do! Matching the right side should be fun! 🤥

Agreed, but with blown out fenders, low profile tires, way better wheel than most today; I’d buy it over nearly all the other SUV out there today! That all look like they came of the same copy machine!

That’s going to be a tuff piece to repair! I believe that those were a blend of acrylic & vinyl. The clear is acrylic the black is vinyl. Which is why so many would first crack between the clear & the black. Being to dissimilar materials finding something that will bond to both for the long term and use of the wheel may be an issue.

Pretty sure those will fit! Typically GM trim clips across line in sister models.

I think all of us who do what we do are very patient! I also think it’s a lot of what my buddy JustA says, “a lot of love” Actually the steering wheels were not that hard, time consuming, but not hard. The piece I made for Frosty, that took some patience and the other end of the file spectrum. Files so small they were made for elf’s! I don’t think he would mind if I should you.

A Big freaking file! Seriously! & a lot of muscle, sandpaper & patiences! Front view gas pedal nobody makes a fined valve cover, sooo make your own! Oh & dip stick handle. My Last Indian trunk emblem! big freaking files

Kiwi here you go! took an OEM wheel ripped it apart. Cut off the outer ring, cut the arms to shorten them down so I could finish at a 13” outside diameter when finished in the wood. Took a piece of 3/4 aluminum round stock and rolled outer ring, tig welded everything back together. start cutting and grooving black walnut, oak & Mahogany woods, as you can see with .030 copper plate on each side of the Mahogany. drill through the 3/4 round stock to bolt the wood plates on each side together. The plates stagger each joint on the opposite side. finish with copper plugs &copper tubing filled with black walnut dowel. The side pieces for the radio controls are carved out of solid aluminum & then bolted to the wheel on the back side. this is one of the upper motor mounts I designed, the other side looks similar,. These attach to the engine completely different. They actually hold the motor with very little movement, but you get the engine vibrations transmitted like you do if you use stiffer bushings with the stock mounts. gas pedal! gas pedal, brake pedal. Parking brake pedal, black walnut & oak console top with arrowhead. first handmade gear shift lever. new gear shift lever front grilles for front cover insert grille for hood

The “69” was just incredible! I have raced quarter miles, saloon racing and road courses for many many years! I drove them, built them and designed suspension for them, but never did one handle like the “69” did after I finished the full frame & suspension mods. I had removed 300 pounds from the car by cutting out the entire floor from firewall back, all of it and all from above CG. That is a very heavy floor triple panel in some places because of the unibody. Long story short, I never got to drive behind the car, but many that did told me over and over that it changed lanes like a slot car. That kind of maneuverability & 600hp were a pretty fun combination. The “74” handle really well too, but a little more docile, not quite as aggressive & only about 350hp. The bumpers you mentioned! Those were an abortion if I ever saw one! Aluminum and steel in the winter! Water, salt! Seriously they might as well have connected a battery to it and forget the alternator! So when I rebuilt it I gutted the bumpers! No steel leafs, got rid of them all. Just the aluminum bumper! Welded up some Stainless steel extension brackets that extended out from the frame and mounted the bumpers solid. In doing that I moved the bumpers in about 4” closer to the body and got rid of the flexible vinyl body color intermediate piece they used.

Ok! Bit of a long winded answer, sorry! Both Frosty & JustA are correct with a caveat! The window trim would use Frosty’ tool! Not his tool, but the one he showed. The upper trim that wraps around the window? It depends on what kind of clips are used? That I’m not sure of. So you might be able to use the window trim tool, but my guess is it could be what I think JustA I suggesting. You have to remove the inside panels and remove a nut. I actually think it’s another type of clip though. This type of clip has two upset lips on each end that snap into the inside groove of the trim on each side. Possibly with a nutted clip at each finished end. I would take a couple plastic body filler spreaders at the rear glass area and insert them, one on top of the other, under the trim. This should raise the trim up. If it doesn’t raise it enough to see under the trim use a broad blade putty knife between the two spreaders to raise it more to see if you can tell what type of clip. Once that is known removal will be much easier. The steering wheel! Well obviously you have to pull it. I think Frosty’s on the right track! Clearly you have to get rid of all the plastic on the ring. If you can pull the broken section back in place where the ring looks round & you can weld it that’s the simplest. But you more than likely will have to cut the plastic on the two arms back as well. Than getting a material that will adhere to the old existing plastic and fill the rim without cracking may be a challenge. I have a few thoughts as to how you might restore it as best you can without sending it to a restorer, but see what you find when you take it apart first.

I think this link will work? This was posted back in “17” I owned both a “69” & “74” Z both were massively modified as you will see, if the link works. The “74” was my wife’s the “69” was mine part, just part of the reason for the massive mods were to many winters in Northeast Ohio! Lots of hard winter lots of salt! And yes we drove them year around. Believe me when I say, winter, big horsepower, rear wheel drive, is nothing but shear fun!

I’ve done a little here and there, but I can put something together. Take a look on the progression forum at FWD ground pounder, that shows some of the different things.

It’s why I have always loved GM products! Not in all cases, but they, better than most always seemed to extract the best from a particular division and transfer it across all their lines!

Correct Frosty! I know I said code, but the data, not a code, indicates a cat issue not a sensor issue, or at least that’s the way I interpret it to be. Which is way I said a cat issue or pipe.

I have a GM code book from my days in the business, but I do believe if you put that in to a search for 7e8 engine code you can find it that way too.

That warms the cockles of my heart buddy! I couldn’t think of a better place I would rather see it!

Great job! We love to see Pontiac’s being loved!