Frosty

You can try contacting Stencils and Stripes Unlimited for the Formula graphics. They already reproduce the Formula graphic to the 76-78 Formula Firebirds, so they are familar with the style. Plus they reproduce graphics for the old Vega GTs. So they should be able to produce a scaled down version of the Forumla graphics for you. http://www.stencilsandstripes.com/pr_pont_formula.asp

I can answer that question. A muscle car, by most definitions, is considered to be an intermediate car with (typically) a large cubic inch motor. This makes for great power to weight ratios. The original 1964 GTO was actually an option package uplift on the base Tempest. You had to get the Lemans luxury package first before you could add on the GTO package. At the time, GM and most of the Big 4 auto companies had self-imposed limits on cubic displacement to vehicle weight. Since the Tempest (the base model for the GTO) was classified as an intermediate car, it was limited to a maximuim of 330 cubic inches by the corporation. In the late 50s and early 60s, Pontiac developed it's legendary Super Duty engine program for NASCAR and NHRA drag racing. GM pulled the plug on company sponsored racing around this time. Since Pontiac could not go racing, they took their perforamnce motors to the street - especially since the youth market had started booming. Another important thing to remember is that unlike Chrysler, Ford, Olds, Buick, and Chevy, Pontiac never had separate large and small block engine programs. Pontiac's engines were the same external dimensions with different bore and stroke combinations. So a 326, a 389, and a 455 are the same size externally and....therefore, they bolt into the same size engine compartment directly. No adaption was needed. No engineering or re-design work was needed either. The rest of GM's divisions had just small V8 engines - except for Chevy's 409 "W" mystery motor. So the GTO was the FIRST intermediate car to be sold with a large 389 cubic inch engine. Remember the limit was 330 ci for the entire corporation for the A-body cars. Larger displacement (389s and 421s)engines went into the full size cars like the Bonneville and Catalina based on GM's weight formula/restrictions. So the GTO package was an exception or a loop hole that Pete Estes and John DeLorean used to get the GTO in production. The GTO package was expected to be a small (no more than 5000 units) option. What happened was that it was so successful, that people went nuts and demanded over 32000 GTOS in 1964. So it was the first high cube/small(er) body car to be sold to the public. That is why is considered the first muscle car and the start of the muscle car era. I have written about the GTO and Firebird histories before in other blogs. It's fascinating.

I hate to burst your bubble, but there were a few Pontiacs that had even smaller engines. Anybody remember the T1000 (the Pontiac version of the Chevette) - 1.4 & 1.6L.?Pontiac Lemans (88-93) built by Daewoo - 1.5L? Pontiac Firefly (Canada only) - 1.4L? Still you might win the smallest displacement at the show. I doubt anyone is going to show up with any of these cars.

Could it have anything to do with the fact that the General Lee was never a Pontiac? It's just a guess, mind you!!! Now if you were looking for favorite cars from TV and Movies of all time, then the General Lee would definitely be in the discussion. Different topic thread though.

There are two Pontiac specific magazines that I know of: 1. High Performance Pontiac 2. Pontiac Enthsuiast Another non-Pontiac specific title is GM High Tech Performance. It features mostly Corvette, Firebird, Camaro, GTO, and G8 articles. Still they have done a few FWD projects as well - like tweaking the supercharger on a Grand Prix with a Gen III 3800.

I am not all that surpried that Michigan is #2. The fact that Louisana and not the old Motor Capital of World is #1, surprises me.

I think it is an excellent idea. I hope it is embraced by the entire Pontiac ethusiast community at large. I wonder where the May 31 date came from to begin with - the original GM annoucncement I wonder? I question it only because a local Pontiac dealership told me that the dealers don't have to take down their Pontiac signs or stop selling and advertising "new" Pontiacs for sale until October 31st (which is GM's end to the 2010 model year). However, the fact there are so few unsold 2009/2010 Pontiacs left to sell makes selling or advertsiing "new" Pontiacs virtually a moot point anyways.

My suggestion is to get the new compressor. You will love the AC on those days that you need it. Also, if you ever plan to sell the car at some point in time in the distant future (and not hack it up into a race car), then your resale value will be maintained with any potential buyer. Remove it permanently, then you will get even less money for it down the road. It doesn't add value, but a non-functioning AC will take away value. Another tip. If the compressor leaked, you might ask someone to check the seals in the entire AC system with the aforementioned dye once the compressor is installed. You might not have enough AC system lubricate to keep the seals moist, soft, and functioning. I would hate to see you replace the compressor, re-charge the system, only to have it leak out somewhere else and have to spend even more money. Have the whole system checked out at one time. It might be more that the $200 compressor, but it is worth it!!!

Cammerjeff - I am very envious!!! First of all, to have all those cars (and hopefully the garage space to go with it)!!! Second, these cars bring back a ton of memories for me. One of my best friends in high school was a year older than me. He graduated in '77 and he got a new car while in his freshman year at college, a yellow and black '77 Astre Formula GT hatchback. So I would love to see a profile picture with your Formula's badging. Second, I bought a '73 Lemans Sport Coupe out of high school with my graduation money. So your '73 evokes memories of the first year Colonade style 'A' body (and my first Pontiac). I see you have a '73 GTO hood on it too! Those are rare as hens teeth these days! I assume the Sunbird Safari has a 231 even-fire Buick V6 in it. I'd love to see the picks of the '71 Safari and the OHC Firebird and LeMans. I see that some people have really developed a small following for the OHC-6 and the Sprints too. Way to go!!! I met Macolm "Mac" McKellar back in 2008 at the GM Heritage Center. I asked him what the most memorable engine program he ever worked on was (I was expecting the old Super Duty or Ram Air programs), he said it was the building and developing the OHC engine!!!! He was mad as hell at DeLorean for asking him to develop it but he (and his team) got it working. So that tells you something. These engines are under appreciated. Finally, I love the fact that you have a lot of wagons. These cars didn't get a lot of love back in the day and now they are really hard to find, especially all of yours. I hope you take real good care of them!!!

With a black and gold 3rd gen TA in the driveway, it was definitely Smokey and the Bandit for me, and with a nickname like Frosty, obviously the Snowman is involved in some way too!!!

I vote no. Type them all out here in this blog, and then you do! Now that would be impressive!!! Seriously, nice link and reference.

Any episode of Overhaulin' featuring a Pontiac Lemans, GTO, or Firebird. Street Customs episode that took a 2006 GTO, cut the body off of it and grafted on a '69 GTO body onto it. AJ Janic's new pro-touring '68 Firebird built by YearOne on an episode of Hot Rod TV. The Tribute Trans Am being built on MuscleCar. The LeMans built on MuscleCar. Also in Smokey and the Bandit, Sheriff Buford T. Justice's trashed police cars, plus all the trashed Potniac cop cars in Smokey and the Bandit II. Every hear of "Pontiac Moon", starring Ted Danson? It features a '49 Pontiac with a straight eight. You forgot another Burt Reynolds classic Pontiac. Remember the rocket/stunt car Trans Am at the end of "Hooper"? The 1979 Trans Am cop car in Cannon Ball Run chasing down the Lambo? The GTO in Two Lane Blacktop Lemans used in the chase scene of the French Connection Lucille Ball and Desi Arnez drove Pontiac Cheiftain convertibles in early episodes of "I Love Lucy" The identical twin Trans Ams used in the movie "Cannonball" with David Carradine. This was the inspiration for the movie, Cannonball Run. Do NASCAR Pontiacs driven by Richard Petty, Rusty Wallace and some others count in the TV section? Do any other form of racing Pontiacs count in the TV section - like NHRA or drifting? Monster Garage episode, Wheelie Santa Float, started with a '86 Trans Am with a special '91 Ferrari Testarosa styled body on it. How am I doing?

I have the DVD in my video collection. The indoor car show scenes shows a bunch of classic Pontiacs in the background too. Some of them belong to Pontiac ad guru Jim Wangers plus a bunch of cars from the San Diego area Ponitac ethusiasts.

Dude, I can empathize. In spite of one of my heroes, Red Green, duct tape is an automotive accessory. Seems like the PO thought it was an automotive necessity. I would never use to make a fashion statement either. Why the duct tape on the steering wheel? I don't expect you to answer - it is a rethorical question. Yeah, good luck with re-doing the wiring. What a hack job. You might be better off seeing if YearOne, Hawk's 3rd Gen, or Classis Industries have new cluster/dash wiring harnesses. It might be a lot easier.

You might have some competition for that honor if the guy shows up again with his '77 Astre. Otherwise, yeah, I think you might be a shoe in for that.

Carlisle is a good suggestion. I think the spring and fall Carlisle shows are better for that sort of thing than the GM Nationals since there are a lot more vendors at the spring & fall shows than the GM-specific meet. I think a more likely show to find this stuff is the Hershey PA meet in early October. It is a pre-WWII mecca of old parts and cars. Plenty of post-war parts and cars too. I was there in 2004, the vendor book we bought said that if you walked every row and aisle, you would walk 60 miles!!!! It is the biggest swap meet I've ever been to, although Carlisle has a ton too. The biggest difference between Carlisle and Hershey is that Carlisle is very hilly. Hershey is relative flat. ANother nice things is that Carlisle and Hershey are so close to each other. Also, you might try contacting the Early Times Chapter of the Pontiac Oakland club too. They might have some leads. http://www.earlytimeschapter.org/

Thanks 86_TransAm! About that trade....yeah , right! My suggestion would be to check out eBay, Craiglist, and salvage yards. You might even pick up a copy of your local auto swapper. The biggest problem I have with these particular rims is I can't rotate the tires from front to back. The rims have different offsets from front to rear. So you have to break down the tires off the rims to rotate them front to back. Not one of GM's brightest moments. Still a 4th Corvette is worse, each wheel (I"m told) was specific. So what's your TA got? Do I get to do power shifts and do burnouts in the Vibe in return?

I think we've lost sight of the entire topic here. It was started by notallthere about an All Pontiac-Oakland-GMC car show in the Detroit area and encouraging the FWD Pontiac community in the area to come out in force and hang with other Pontiac fans. I jumped in the discussion to further support the show based on my own experiences at that show. This topic has disgressed into complaining about wheither or not the sponsoring car club itself has electronic transactions AND not about the car show or its merits. Who cares about online transactions? Why is that so important or even relevant to this topic thread's discussion? My point is this: here is an opprtunity to see some great cars and trucks that we all love, check out a lot of great rides, get some ideas for our own cars, hear some stories, check out the swap meet area, and have a good time with fellow 'Indians'. How the club runs the event is none of our business unless we choose to become a member. Finally, if you find my explanations of how social clubs work is so much BS, then I suggest you start your own club or join an existing one and see what it takes to organize and run it for yourself. Find out first hand what it takes to run a club. It sounds simple, but it isn't. It's very time consuming. You have to be passionate, dedicated, and creative. You do it for the love of comradary, friendship, common sense of purpose, or the fun that a social group provides. You don't do it for the money because there isn't any. If I were there event organizer and I got your complaint, knowing that you are not a member of the club, I might be inclined to tell you that "your input is important to me, it will be ignored in the order it was recieved". So can we just focus on the merits of the show in this topic please?

Feel free to give them your electronic savings account so they can use it to pay for the services and equipment you feel they so desperately need then. They might be even be a non-profit organization, so you might get a tax deduction out of it. I am sure they will accept your kind and generous donation. Otherwise, don't spend the 44 cents, don't write the check, and don't go to the show! That choice is yours. How they choose to conduct business is not. Deal with it! If you think this is such a grevious problem, then join their club, become a member or better yet become a board member, and show them the light and path of going electronic. Get involved and make a difference.

Thanks. Anyway, it took time. So if you wanted T-tops, you had to live with the 305. Now I must admit, I've considered possibly stroking it into 327. Keeps it number matching, perhaps a little head porting. That could be fun. Nothing too radical. Again, you have to keep it looking original looking and not restored in order to classify it as a survivor. So changes have to be subtle or explainable through normal wear'n'tear or age.

I prefered the Blackhawks vs the Red Wings last year. I love seeing original six teams play in the first place, plus both teams had retro-jerseys. Oh yeah - the Red Wings won. Go Wings! I heard that the University of Michigan are going to play an outdoor hockey game against in-state rivial Michigan State later this year at Michigan Staduim! That will be 110,000+ people at one hockey game. It might set a world attendance record for watching a hockey game in the process. Who knows.... Michigan and Michigan State played to a 3-3 tie in what was called the "Cold War" at Spartan Staduim back in 2001. Attendance at the game was 74,544 according to Wikipedia.

Anything more than 305 CI would be an improvement but I have to be careful on the power mods. This car has T-tops and too much torque can twist the body with the hatches out! GM didn't exactly have hi-performanced engines in the mid-80s (the Corvette 350 and GNX Turbo V6 being the exceptions). The Trans AM GTA and its 350 V8 didn't become available until late spring 1986. Mine was built in November '85. So the GTA and 350 were not an option when I ordered the car. In fact, the GTA could not be ordered with T-tops initially. Pontiac had to have time to reinforce the unibody to handle the added torque of the 350. SO T-tops were not available in the GTA until '87 or perhaps the '88 model year.

Emily, Kaymo and notallthere have great instructions. They are correct about the importance of prepping the surfaces to promote good paint adhesion. To answer your question about how to take the panels off, you need to get a shop manual for your car. It has step-by-step instructions on how to properly remove and install door and dash panels. Sometimes they also provide a list of tools you will need to do the job. These manuals are also highly illustrated. Hayne/Chilton are excellent. I prefer a genuine GM/Pontiac shop manual myself but that is a choice, nothing against Haynes or Chilton. You will need a portable trouble light or flashlight, some hand tools and perhaps a couple of specialty tools. Hand tools usually consist of Phillips and flat head screw drivers, a small set of sockets with SAE & metric sizes, and perhaps a Torx head socket set too. Specialty tools might include a small J-hooked tool to pull the retaining ‘C’-shaped clip off your window cranks (if you have manual cranks). A special door panel tool helps slide in between the door frame and the door panel to pry or pop out the plastic retaining pins that hold the panel to the door frame. You can do this after you’ve removed everything else from the door (like the power window/lock switches, disconnect any electrical connections, the arm rest, and/or window crank). Again, an illustration works wonders here. Your dash panel is a bit different. Depending on what you are removing, some pieces may simply come off by pulling on it, or is it secured with retaining screws. These screws maybe Phillips headed, normal screwdriver slotted, or a true nut (which might be metric or SAE sized nuts). I have seen one dash have the gauge cluster held in with a Torx head screws. There is definitely a proper removal procedure in the manual. It must be followed or you will not get it off, or you might break it in the process. Obviously we don’t want that to happen. The flashlight or trouble light is used to see under the dash or provide better lighting for what you are working on. OK – let’s assume you have all your panels off, and you have your desired interior paint, dye, and prep materials. Prepping the surface is key. As notallthere points out, you have to thoroughly, thoroughly clean your parts. You need to remove all dirt and silicon containments (Armor All looks great but it has a certain amount of silicon – silicon repels water) or the paint won’t stick long term. I have experience with SEM interior dyes and paints but not Fusion. You use paint on hard plastic and metal surfaces. You use dyes on soft materials like leather, nagahide, vinyl, or cloth. SEM has a plastic prep spray that acts as a sort of a primer that promotes paint adhesion for plastic parts. Assuming we are dealing with metal or plastic parts, then you must rough up the surface slight to promote good paint adhesion – in the paint business this is called “tooth”. Hence the use of Scotch Brite pads (I use red Scotch Brites when I prep a panel for airbrushing). Don’t go crazy; just make sure the surface is dull, not shiny. You don’t need to make gouges in the surface either. Apply a primer to make everything a consistent base color. You might want or have to sand the primer down to a smooth texture. Once the primer is complete, then you can apply the paint. Use several light coats with some time in between coats. Build the color gradually. You don’t want to glob it on, that will cause runs, orange peel, or perhaps fish eyes. Once the color is applied (and depending on the color manufacturer) you will have to apply a clear coat which acts as a sealer against the colored paint. Then you will have to cut and buff out the clear coat to get everything smooth and shiny. If you are painting your seats or cloth/vinyl door panels, then you must use a dye instead. Here too, prep is key. You must thoroughly clean all the dirt off these materials too. Carpet or fabric cleaner must be used on fabric surfaces. Again, avoid cleaners with silicon in them. Once the material is thoroughly clean and dry, then you can apply the dye. Again, build the color up in layers. Dye is often thinner than paint, so it may take several more coats to completely cover the material. Dyes typically don’t require a clear coat. However, read the instructions on the dye for proper final sealing. If you are dealing with fabric seats, you will want to apply something like a Scotch Guard water and stain repellent once the dye is dry. Now I know this sounds like a ton of work. It is, but don’t let that scare you. You can do it, over a weekend or two. Just work on one piece at a time. You will learn that taking the interior apart is not that hard – it is just time consuming. Just be sure to bag and label all your parts and hardware as you remove them. Taking pictures of things as you disassemble them also helps with re-assembly.

Tempting....like I said, I want to keep it close to original/survivor status as a I can. Now if someone has a twin of this car, then I say lets throw an LSX or LS7 motor in it and try to achieve low earth orbit!

Thanks. I do try. Damn hard sometimes since black loves to show the slightest dust. '86 was also the last year for the full hood screaming chicken decal. After that, they got a lot smaller.