Frosty

Look again boys and girls. A couple of very unique Pontiac cars were captured in notallthere's photos. The '69 Trans Am is an original Pontiac Historical Services-verified, one-of-only-669 Trans Ams built! It is a survivor, totally unrestored. The owner bought it in 1983 for $6000. Add to it that is a 4-speed car with.....drum roll please.....an original Ram Air IV 400 engine!!!! This makes this car so unique that it is one of less than 50 built (uber rare). The owner has twice been offered (and turned down) $125K for the car - as is!!!! The Grand Am / El Camino is one of two Pontiac Engineering cars built. It was a design study to look at the feasibility of building a Pontiac Elky!! It was built in '79 and then had the '80 Grand Am sheet metal added on a year later. It was close to going into production according to the documentation the owner had. It's twin sister is in the GM Heritage Collection!!! During the awards ceremony, the dude naming the winners thanked a lot of the participants and which car clubs they were from. He even mentioned Forever Pontiac! So I figured he talked to notallthere at some point. I was probably in the john at the time.

True, hindsight is always 20/20 vision though.We have history on our side now. Still the industry did a lot of self-imposed limits and other silly decisions in those days....like the ban on corporate sponsored racing. Let's not forget that GM was about 50% of car sales in the US market at the time. Congress was starting to grumble that GM was really a monopoly and there was a real fear, within and outside GM, that the government might sue them under anti-trust laws and break the company up. So GM management had to walk some fine public relations tight ropes in those days, so as not to be seen as a monopoly. Also, the other Big 4 companies did similar things too. GM was not alone in this arena.

DId I adeqautely answer the question?

It was a cool show. Heck, during the awards ceremony, the guy thanked the participants and mentioned all the car clubs that showed up. He even mentioned ForeverPontiac.com!!! So I figured he talked to Notallthere. Can't wait to see the pics from the show with that new fangeled camera you had - one you get that STD fixed. Some cars that stood out for me were: 1. The 1979/80 Grand Am El Camino - this is one of two that Pontiac Engineering actually built. This guys owns it!!! Black and gold. 2. A goregous black '63 Bonneville convertible. It took three awards, including best of show. 3. A '34 Pontiac with a straight 8 4. A '38 Pontiac 5. A '57 Pontiac that was made to re-create a Pontiac Nascar from the 50s for a TV commercial. 6. A '89 Trans Am SCCA race car 7. A true flamed airbrushed hood on a '79 Trans Am 8. An original '69 Trans Am (one of 669) with a 4-speed and a Ram Air IV engine (makes this one of 48)!!! The owner told me he has been twice offered $125k (as is) for it. 9. A '74 Ventura Sprint (the Pontiac version of the Nova). No FWD cars except a '85 J2000 were there. An '09 G8 GT and an '09 Solstice were there. Lots of GTOs, Firebirds and Trans Am. Lots of the big cars, Bonnevilles, Catalinas, and one 2+2. Lots of A-bodies, Lemans, Tempest, GT-37, T-37, etc.

This show is this Saturday! Is anyone going - besides me and Notallthere?

Been driving the TA since Tuesday since the Avalanche is in the shop with a bad fuel pump and a corroded main fuel line. It's been a hoot to drive to work but I am going to dread cleaning it. Black car and 2 days of rain...not a good combination!

Knowing Jim, these are drivers and not uber-valueable, low mileage, ultra-restored cars. It would be uncharacteristic for Jim to sell his most desirable cars. This is not to say these cars are slouches, and I would love to own any of the Trans Am (especially the '69), or any Judge. Still if Jim owned these cars, the price of the cars will be slightly higher since his name is associated with them. It's like a Cadillac that was owned by Elvis. It will cost more simple because he owned it versus Joe Schmo. The red '65 is listed as a tribute to the original red '65 GTO that Jim had built at Royal Pontiac for the infamous Motor Trend test. It had a ringer motor in it for the press to drive plus it terrorized Woodward pretty good too. Jim talks about it in Glory Days. The original red GTO still exists but Jim has not own it in nearly 45 years.

I know this is still no consellation for the lose of our favorite brand, but a Pontiac dealer general manager told me that GM has said that Pontiac signs, the advertising of "new" Pontiacs, etc. do not have to stop until October 31st. I guess that is GM's official end to the 2010 model year. The fact there are virtually no new 2010 Pontiacs to sell makes some of this somewhat of a mute point. Still the signs will be around for a little while longer.

I love the Lemans especially. Yeah, 350 Pontiacs just don't get the same love as the Chevy 350s do. Everyone wants the 400s and 455s (there is no replacement for displacement). Still 350 Ponchos make good power and they can handle all the same mods to it that you would to a 400 or 455. So what do you hope to do to it someday (when money is no longer an object? - Hey a guy can dream can't he?)? Well if you are in the Harrisburg area, then you might be able to pick up something at the GM Nationals at Carlisle in a couple of weeks. I love Carlisle - except for the dang sideways hills in the swap meet area. Still there is way more Chevy than anything else there. Still you can find bargins if you are willing to wheel and deal. I picked up an old original chrome Pontiac knee knocker tach for $50.00. The POCI national convention is in Charleston WV, so if you slide south a few miles, you might be able to get one in the swap meet there too. Lastly, if Notallthere knows where there is a 455, then get it!!!! The nice thing about Pontiac motors is they are the same exterior size. Pontiac didn't have a large or small block program. The bores and strokes were different, but the dimensions of the exterior block is the same (except the 301s and 265s). So you could stuff a 455 under the hood and leave the 350 markings on it. Only a real Pontiac guy would know where to look to see if that is an honest 350 or something else. Nuthin' like a little sandbagging, if you know what I mean.

You can try contacting Stencils and Stripes Unlimited for the Formula graphics. They already reproduce the Formula graphic to the 76-78 Formula Firebirds, so they are familar with the style. Plus they reproduce graphics for the old Vega GTs. So they should be able to produce a scaled down version of the Forumla graphics for you. http://www.stencilsandstripes.com/pr_pont_formula.asp

I can answer that question. A muscle car, by most definitions, is considered to be an intermediate car with (typically) a large cubic inch motor. This makes for great power to weight ratios. The original 1964 GTO was actually an option package uplift on the base Tempest. You had to get the Lemans luxury package first before you could add on the GTO package. At the time, GM and most of the Big 4 auto companies had self-imposed limits on cubic displacement to vehicle weight. Since the Tempest (the base model for the GTO) was classified as an intermediate car, it was limited to a maximuim of 330 cubic inches by the corporation. In the late 50s and early 60s, Pontiac developed it's legendary Super Duty engine program for NASCAR and NHRA drag racing. GM pulled the plug on company sponsored racing around this time. Since Pontiac could not go racing, they took their perforamnce motors to the street - especially since the youth market had started booming. Another important thing to remember is that unlike Chrysler, Ford, Olds, Buick, and Chevy, Pontiac never had separate large and small block engine programs. Pontiac's engines were the same external dimensions with different bore and stroke combinations. So a 326, a 389, and a 455 are the same size externally and....therefore, they bolt into the same size engine compartment directly. No adaption was needed. No engineering or re-design work was needed either. The rest of GM's divisions had just small V8 engines - except for Chevy's 409 "W" mystery motor. So the GTO was the FIRST intermediate car to be sold with a large 389 cubic inch engine. Remember the limit was 330 ci for the entire corporation for the A-body cars. Larger displacement (389s and 421s)engines went into the full size cars like the Bonneville and Catalina based on GM's weight formula/restrictions. So the GTO package was an exception or a loop hole that Pete Estes and John DeLorean used to get the GTO in production. The GTO package was expected to be a small (no more than 5000 units) option. What happened was that it was so successful, that people went nuts and demanded over 32000 GTOS in 1964. So it was the first high cube/small(er) body car to be sold to the public. That is why is considered the first muscle car and the start of the muscle car era. I have written about the GTO and Firebird histories before in other blogs. It's fascinating.

I hate to burst your bubble, but there were a few Pontiacs that had even smaller engines. Anybody remember the T1000 (the Pontiac version of the Chevette) - 1.4 & 1.6L.?Pontiac Lemans (88-93) built by Daewoo - 1.5L? Pontiac Firefly (Canada only) - 1.4L? Still you might win the smallest displacement at the show. I doubt anyone is going to show up with any of these cars.

Could it have anything to do with the fact that the General Lee was never a Pontiac? It's just a guess, mind you!!! Now if you were looking for favorite cars from TV and Movies of all time, then the General Lee would definitely be in the discussion. Different topic thread though.

There are two Pontiac specific magazines that I know of: 1. High Performance Pontiac 2. Pontiac Enthsuiast Another non-Pontiac specific title is GM High Tech Performance. It features mostly Corvette, Firebird, Camaro, GTO, and G8 articles. Still they have done a few FWD projects as well - like tweaking the supercharger on a Grand Prix with a Gen III 3800.

I am not all that surpried that Michigan is #2. The fact that Louisana and not the old Motor Capital of World is #1, surprises me.

I think it is an excellent idea. I hope it is embraced by the entire Pontiac ethusiast community at large. I wonder where the May 31 date came from to begin with - the original GM annoucncement I wonder? I question it only because a local Pontiac dealership told me that the dealers don't have to take down their Pontiac signs or stop selling and advertising "new" Pontiacs for sale until October 31st (which is GM's end to the 2010 model year). However, the fact there are so few unsold 2009/2010 Pontiacs left to sell makes selling or advertsiing "new" Pontiacs virtually a moot point anyways.

My suggestion is to get the new compressor. You will love the AC on those days that you need it. Also, if you ever plan to sell the car at some point in time in the distant future (and not hack it up into a race car), then your resale value will be maintained with any potential buyer. Remove it permanently, then you will get even less money for it down the road. It doesn't add value, but a non-functioning AC will take away value. Another tip. If the compressor leaked, you might ask someone to check the seals in the entire AC system with the aforementioned dye once the compressor is installed. You might not have enough AC system lubricate to keep the seals moist, soft, and functioning. I would hate to see you replace the compressor, re-charge the system, only to have it leak out somewhere else and have to spend even more money. Have the whole system checked out at one time. It might be more that the $200 compressor, but it is worth it!!!

Cammerjeff - I am very envious!!! First of all, to have all those cars (and hopefully the garage space to go with it)!!! Second, these cars bring back a ton of memories for me. One of my best friends in high school was a year older than me. He graduated in '77 and he got a new car while in his freshman year at college, a yellow and black '77 Astre Formula GT hatchback. So I would love to see a profile picture with your Formula's badging. Second, I bought a '73 Lemans Sport Coupe out of high school with my graduation money. So your '73 evokes memories of the first year Colonade style 'A' body (and my first Pontiac). I see you have a '73 GTO hood on it too! Those are rare as hens teeth these days! I assume the Sunbird Safari has a 231 even-fire Buick V6 in it. I'd love to see the picks of the '71 Safari and the OHC Firebird and LeMans. I see that some people have really developed a small following for the OHC-6 and the Sprints too. Way to go!!! I met Macolm "Mac" McKellar back in 2008 at the GM Heritage Center. I asked him what the most memorable engine program he ever worked on was (I was expecting the old Super Duty or Ram Air programs), he said it was the building and developing the OHC engine!!!! He was mad as hell at DeLorean for asking him to develop it but he (and his team) got it working. So that tells you something. These engines are under appreciated. Finally, I love the fact that you have a lot of wagons. These cars didn't get a lot of love back in the day and now they are really hard to find, especially all of yours. I hope you take real good care of them!!!

With a black and gold 3rd gen TA in the driveway, it was definitely Smokey and the Bandit for me, and with a nickname like Frosty, obviously the Snowman is involved in some way too!!!

I vote no. Type them all out here in this blog, and then you do! Now that would be impressive!!! Seriously, nice link and reference.

Any episode of Overhaulin' featuring a Pontiac Lemans, GTO, or Firebird. Street Customs episode that took a 2006 GTO, cut the body off of it and grafted on a '69 GTO body onto it. AJ Janic's new pro-touring '68 Firebird built by YearOne on an episode of Hot Rod TV. The Tribute Trans Am being built on MuscleCar. The LeMans built on MuscleCar. Also in Smokey and the Bandit, Sheriff Buford T. Justice's trashed police cars, plus all the trashed Potniac cop cars in Smokey and the Bandit II. Every hear of "Pontiac Moon", starring Ted Danson? It features a '49 Pontiac with a straight eight. You forgot another Burt Reynolds classic Pontiac. Remember the rocket/stunt car Trans Am at the end of "Hooper"? The 1979 Trans Am cop car in Cannon Ball Run chasing down the Lambo? The GTO in Two Lane Blacktop Lemans used in the chase scene of the French Connection Lucille Ball and Desi Arnez drove Pontiac Cheiftain convertibles in early episodes of "I Love Lucy" The identical twin Trans Ams used in the movie "Cannonball" with David Carradine. This was the inspiration for the movie, Cannonball Run. Do NASCAR Pontiacs driven by Richard Petty, Rusty Wallace and some others count in the TV section? Do any other form of racing Pontiacs count in the TV section - like NHRA or drifting? Monster Garage episode, Wheelie Santa Float, started with a '86 Trans Am with a special '91 Ferrari Testarosa styled body on it. How am I doing?

I have the DVD in my video collection. The indoor car show scenes shows a bunch of classic Pontiacs in the background too. Some of them belong to Pontiac ad guru Jim Wangers plus a bunch of cars from the San Diego area Ponitac ethusiasts.

Dude, I can empathize. In spite of one of my heroes, Red Green, duct tape is an automotive accessory. Seems like the PO thought it was an automotive necessity. I would never use to make a fashion statement either. Why the duct tape on the steering wheel? I don't expect you to answer - it is a rethorical question. Yeah, good luck with re-doing the wiring. What a hack job. You might be better off seeing if YearOne, Hawk's 3rd Gen, or Classis Industries have new cluster/dash wiring harnesses. It might be a lot easier.

You might have some competition for that honor if the guy shows up again with his '77 Astre. Otherwise, yeah, I think you might be a shoe in for that.

Carlisle is a good suggestion. I think the spring and fall Carlisle shows are better for that sort of thing than the GM Nationals since there are a lot more vendors at the spring & fall shows than the GM-specific meet. I think a more likely show to find this stuff is the Hershey PA meet in early October. It is a pre-WWII mecca of old parts and cars. Plenty of post-war parts and cars too. I was there in 2004, the vendor book we bought said that if you walked every row and aisle, you would walk 60 miles!!!! It is the biggest swap meet I've ever been to, although Carlisle has a ton too. The biggest difference between Carlisle and Hershey is that Carlisle is very hilly. Hershey is relative flat. ANother nice things is that Carlisle and Hershey are so close to each other. Also, you might try contacting the Early Times Chapter of the Pontiac Oakland club too. They might have some leads. http://www.earlytimeschapter.org/