I have said for as long as I can remember that the old timers were pretty damn smart! Everybody since either copies them or builds on what they started, but for nearly 50 years & most specifically the last 40 to 30 years society, business & most specifically engineering has rapidly been destroying all that they accomplished in understanding how to engineer & build correctly! Both for function as well as durability & safety! 

There are many things that could be president, but for now I will relate this to my most recent episode with the Indian! Those that are familiar with the build of this car should understand this stout built car is capable of very aggressive cornering. Now the physics of cornering in that manner delivers a lot of energy or force to the suspension components. In a traditional rear wheel drive suspension the rear axles are retained in such a manner that the heaviest loads are delivered inward to very large tapered roller bearings. These types of bearings carry very heavy loads. While the lighter loads, from outward forces are carried by smaller components, but in both cases their failures are rarely if ever due to design! They are inevitably due to age, wear or poor oil maintenance.

Enter the new era of incompetent engineering/engineers! FWD’s are not new! They are quite old! Actually both RWD & FWD cars came almost simultaneously at the end of the 19th century. In those beginning days, FWD’s were designed in very similar ways to RWD’s! Than FWD’s other than Europe & some of Asia, all but disappeared shortly after the very early 1900’s. Enter the new era in America; the 1980’s! FWD’s are revived! Why? Money! What else! Yet these are not your great grandfather’s FWD. Oh yes, many were plush on the interior, many were comfortable, but none and I mean none were built well! Especially drivetrain or suspension wise. It took Detroit all of two decades to make a fair FWD from that perspective. When they did it was still a very poor structure from a past engineering design as well as safety! Yes even safety. 

One very good yet simple example is wheel bearings! The old timers built the perfect design! It can’t I repeat can’t be improved on, the design that is. Two opposed tapered roller bearings! The biggest one being on the inboard side were the greatest loads are the smaller on the outboard side. Whether front or back, when you make a turn into a corner the side turned into receives the heaviest load which is on the inside bearing. Likewise the arrangement of this design places the bearings in compression from a castle nut which is pinned by a cotter pin. In this design you have an intelligent safe secure application. Literally the only thing that can happen is a bearing failure, which may strand you, but it won’t kill you.

Today’s FWD’s use a double row radial ball bearing in most nearly every design! These bearings are capable of handling heavy radial loads, but & it’s a big but, they are not great at handling side loads! Yet what’s even worst is the fact these bearings, as minimally capable as they are at handling side loads are attached to the knuckle, which is what RWD folks call a spindle, by bolts! Now if you understand how bolt design works you understand what a failing this is! 

The worst case scenario of this design is a complete failure of bearing hub bolts resulting in the entire wheel assembly coming off, brakes & all! Does that sound like a safe design? Now this really never happens, nor likely would, because by the time the bolts get that loose you would start to see other problems, but still who designs that? Then goes through the process that engineers go through & takes it to the market? Better is the question where is IIHS in all of this? Oh I forgot! No matter their name or their purported intent, they don’t work for us, the people. Check their back pocket!

So now I will look to once again modify components to bring them inline with some reasonable resemblance to intelligent engineering, if that’s possible.

It makes sense that a roller bearing will have more load surface than a ball any day of the week last Indian 

I look forward to seeing what you can achieve with those front wheel bearings 

On 8/6/2024 at 8:54 PM, 64 kiwi boni said:

It makes sense that a roller bearing will have more load surface than a ball any day of the week last Indian 

I look forward to seeing what you can achieve with those front wheel bearings 

Actually it the rear one that were the problem, but I have already laid a plan out as to how to remedy this stupid design. I’ll lay it out for you guys soon as I have a chance to get out my spare set of rear knuckles.

People placing oversize tall and especially wide wheels and tires on modern vehicles that were never intended for such things is another example.

Rick

On 8/22/2024 at 10:27 AM, B52bombardier1 said:

People placing oversize tall and especially wide wheels and tires on modern vehicles that were never intended for such things is another example.

Rick

Rick, in the overall context of your statement I would agree whole heartedly! That said, modern cars are actually, from a structural standpoint more capable of handling heavy mods to suspension systems! This is due to their mechanical resonance frequency by far an away better than past generations designs! Unfortunately their major weak link is the poor design of their suspension components! Many are just plain stupid. So with the proper (strengthening)upgrades to the suspension of these modern cars, they can than handle much beefier wheels & tires combos. Then actually not only be better from a handling perspective, but done so in a very safe manner. Now taller tires than the originals need some discretion! Minimal growth might be alright, but more than an 1” in total diameter is basically self defeating! 

As an example. A 225 60 16 inch tire on a 16” x 61/2” wide rim can easily be replaced by a 245 45 18” tire on a 18” x 8” wide rim without hardly changing anything! The tire diameter will be the same. The weight of the tire will decrease while the wheel weight will increase. Speedometer will stay the same.

With the proper wheel offset there will be no fender issues, no suspension clearance issues. So within reason wheel & tire changes can not only be handled, but can be an improvement! But, & it’s a big but first the improvements to the suspension has to be re-engineered, AKA upgraded! Either by good aftermarket components that are made for those reasons or custom made.

All of that said, there is no accounting for taste! So those that want hoops & bands for their rides have that right! As I have the right to know precisely what understanding they have of taste & physics!

Edited August 24, 20241 yr by Last Indian