Convertible top

[Old guy44]

In the middle of replacing all the 60 year old top and window rubber (what a PITA adjusting everything to fit and work smoothly) and found one of the top cylinders weeping around the shaft seal. OK  they are 60 years old and entitled. Just wondering if anyone knows for sure what fluid the hydraulic system uses. In another lifetime I occasionally worked on these systems and I remember that some systems used jack oil and others used brake fluid. Using the wrong one will create more problems than I ever want to deal with, so if someone knows for sure please respond. I had a 56 Corvette with a power top, very rare option, and it used brake fluid. What little fluid I have had on my fingers from the Indian does not feel like brake fluid but would like to know for sure.

Right now the vent windows are at the glass shop getting the new rubber and channel felt, supposed to be done today. Hopefully I can get the front windows back in this weekend and at least get it on the road again again. Been without it for two weeks and am going into withdrawal. My truck is down waiting for parts and I am down to my wife's Lexus SUV hybrid.  

[JUSTA6]

3 hours ago, Old guy44 said:

In the middle of replacing all the 60 year old top and window rubber (what a PITA adjusting everything to fit and work smoothly) and found one of the top cylinders weeping around the shaft seal. OK  they are 60 years old and entitled. Just wondering if anyone knows for sure what fluid the hydraulic system uses. In another lifetime I occasionally worked on these systems and I remember that some systems used jack oil and others used brake fluid. Using the wrong one will create more problems than I ever want to deal with, so if someone knows for sure please respond. I had a 56 Corvette with a power top, very rare option, and it used brake fluid. What little fluid I have had on my fingers from the Indian does not feel like brake fluid but would like to know for sure.

Right now the vent windows are at the glass shop getting the new rubber and channel felt, supposed to be done today. Hopefully I can get the front windows back in this weekend and at least get it on the road again again. Been without it for two weeks and am going into withdrawal. My truck is down waiting for parts and I am down to my wife's Lexus SUV hybrid.  

Have always used trans fluid....Red.  It's suppose to show up better through the clear or slightly tinted hose lines.  Showing if you have air in the system.  BUT, I have only used 70's and up hydraulic systems. 

Justa checked this site and here is what they say...............https://www.convertibletopguys.com/sitemap/view/64/pontiac-tempest-convertible-top#:~:text=Systems for this car take Automatic Transmission Fluid,We also offer an installation manual when ordered.

[Old guy44]

They probably recommend trans fluid because it has better lubricity than jack oil. This is the first convertible hydraulics I have been into since the 70's except for a @$#$%&%^&(*$^#%^@ Mercedes SL and typical of the Krauts they need an exotic oil. A lot has changed.

Thanks so much for the info. 

[JUSTA6]

I trust that site, seems to have alot of info. I was looking for the best price on new lines for the system on my Sunbird this summer.  When I was a kid working at a gas station....remember when they were service stations?  Start the gas pumping, Pop the hood N check all fluids. replace as necessary. (used trans fluid for all tops back then, real PIA to get into trunks when asked to check vert tops fluid)  Clean the windshield, top the tank and collect CASH.  Nobody used the damn credit cards for gas.   Then again, never had to take a personal loan to fill a tank, like today. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by JUSTA6

[Old guy44]

AAAAH a trip down memory lane. I never worked in a gas station, I grew up in my dads repair shop in the 50's and 60's and in his employ you did not replace you repaired. Can't count the number of starters and generators alternators and GM solenoids I rebuilt. I turned armatures replaced brushes etc. The Fords were a PITA because they soldered in their brushes, took a really big soldering iron to get the copper strap hot enough. 

What little oil I got on my fingers was not water soluble so I did not think it was brake fluid but the way my life has been going lately, I could not buy a break if I had Elon's check book. So I threw it out to others that probably knew for sure. As I stated my 56 Corvette did have brake fluid in the top pump and 56-----63 same era

[Frosty]

I used tranny fluid in my '72's convertible system. I had to replace both hydraulic rams and the lines. The only thing left that is original is the pump. It works fine. I bought a cheap clear ketchup bottle to help fill the pump.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Frosty

[Old guy44]

The only question is, is the trans fluid compatible with the original fluid or should I flush the whole system. I am replacing both rams, they have both been down the same roads all these years. Ebay has a pump rebuild/reseal kit for the pump. Wonder if I should do that while I am in there?

Frosty, a comment on your first bullet point. I was in an industrial part of town last Friday and there was a car stopped in the middle of the road. Traffic was going around it on both sides. I looked as I went by to see if possibly I could offer assistance and here is some 20 something lady parked in the middle of the road TALKING ON THE DAMN PHONE!

[Frosty]

I never drained / flushed the old fluid out of the pump after I replaced the lines and the rams. I simply added new tranny fluid to the system. I would take the plug out of the pump from time to time to left the air escape and add more fluid to the pump gradually with my ketchup bottle filled with tranny fluid. I have yet to need to replace the seals on my pump, but now would be as good as time as any if I was in your shoes.

[Old guy44]

Frosty,

I knew that, I started this "second career" replacing the top seals and window rubber. I am two weeks into it and still ordering parts. I just needed someone to convince me of what I already knew. I plan on this being my last car and seeing me out to the end. It is after-all 60 years old and parts do wear out. But I am 78 and also in need of replacement parts. Quite frankly it will be easier to do it now than a year from now. 

I have been told many times that they are called the golden years because it takes so much gold to get through them! 

[Frosty]

I thought it was called the golden years because you give all your gold to your doctors (I'm 62 myself(. My bad. I'd rather spend all my gold on my cars instead.

[Old guy44]

Exactly. Right now I am looking at a complete overhaul of my right leg. Hip, knee and whatever else they can figure out once they are in there. My left shoulder is causing trouble but I am largely ignoring it. (better  living through drugs)

The thing I can't figure out is that my dad died at 98 with all of his original body parts intact. The day before he died he was still walking upright full stride no cane no walker. Wondering what the h... happened to me.

[Frosty]

Toxic genes from mom? LOL. 

Both my parents had cataracts. I now have it, waiting for it to ripen before I can have surgery. Both parents had knee replacements. I am heading for it. Mom had hip replacement. No sign of it yet but who knows....

[Old guy44]

The cataracts are nothing, had both done. The only thing I would caution against is the bifocal replacement lenses. Everyone I know who has them wishes they didn't. I went with the regular lens and am 20-20 distant. I need reading glasses and my peripheral field has diminished by about 10% but I would do it again in a heartbeat. 

If you presently wear contacts and want to try the bifocal get some bifocal contacts and see if you can adjust to them. apparently around 90% of the population can't adjust to them.

[Frosty]

I was planning on doing both when I can / ready. I had not even heard about the bifocal option, so I wasn't planning on it. I want as close to 20-20 post-surgery as I can get. I don't mind reading glasses after that if I can eliminate the need for bifocals. Fingers crossed. My cataracts was first detected in March and it is in it's infancy. So I know it will some time before I can have it done.

I'm not a contact lens wearer simply because I've never tried to consciously stick my finger in my eye before. Kinda gives me the heebie jeebies without ever trying or having to do it.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Frosty

[Old guy44]

If whoever does it is good at it they should be able to hit 20-20 dead on, and if you never heard of the bifocal option forget I ever mentioned it. I had mine done at Kaiser and the Kaiser Dr's don't do anything else. cataracts 8 hrs. a day 5 days a week, and they are damned good at it. 

I wore contacts for about 25 years before my surgery, I just got so damn tired of having my glasses moving all over my face trying to do anything that required a weird position, like under a dash.

[Old guy44]

6 hours ago, Frosty said:

Toxic genes from mom? LOL. 

Just noticed this, probably so everything else about her was toxic. When she died I was wandering around the house singing ding dong the witch is dead...........My sisters were scared to death that I was going to say something like that at the funeral. But I talked myself down and actually behaved.

[Old guy44]

Frosty,

Just an FYI for whatever it is worth. Got all the hydraulic top stuff and interestingly enough the top cylinders ordered off of EBAY came from convertible top guys. Concerning fluid they state MOST 67 and newer use ATF. 62-66 could have used ATF or brake fluid, pre 62 almost always used brake fluid. Recommendation being if you are doing the whole system flush it and use ATF. 

As it turned out I was 99% certain that it used ATF because it was not water soluble. When I got the pump out it has a tag on it stating ATF. It finally dawned on me that in the early 60's trans fluid was the same color as motor oil. It wasn't till close to the mid 60's that they colored it to keep people from using it incorrectly, (bullet point one).

As it turned out there was no real reason to reseal the pump but it was probably worth it just to clean 60 years worth of sludge out of the bottom of the reservoir. 

All together and the top goes up and down. Probably take a while to bleed out all the air. Three times up and down and I can still see air in the lines.

[Frosty]

Old guy - I have yet to 100% bleed all the air of off my lines. I still seek bits of white and red ATF when I open the trunk. It doesn't stop the continuous operation of the top. As long as the system is happy, I'm happy. I'm cycled mine about 30 times so far. I'm satisfied at this point unless something else happens.

There is a guy who does nothing but cataracts operations locally. My dad went to him years ago. If he is still in practice when mine are ready, I will probably go to him as well.

Thanks for the info about ATF vs brake fluid. I learned something too.