Last Indian

14 minutes ago, Frosty said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/03/13/corvette-c-8-2020-powerful-engine-is-warping-frame/3149723002/

 

Is this what they mean by warp speed?😳

On 3/14/2019 at 12:21 AM, Wrongway said:

Not sure on the headers I'll have to check with Hooker. All their website says is mild steel. Yeah id like to keep the headers since they've only got maybe 50mi on them at most. I'll have to find a shop to weld up the pipes since I cant weld anymore but that shouldn't be a problem either. Do you think 3" pipe will be a good choice or should I reduce them to 2.5"?

Wrongway, if it was mine I would use 304 SS 2 ½ all the way to the mufflers, all welded, no clamps, no balance cross pipe. The super 44s are a good muffler choice. After set in the right orientation I would weld them to the 304 pipe. When the time comes to replace the mufflers you just grind the weld till the muffler is released. The area of a single 3” pipe, working diameter 2.9”, is 7.18 sq in for 8 cylinders. The area of single 2 ½ pipe, working diameter 2.4” is 4.5” sq in for 4 cylinders. This mean that the laminar flow is much more stable with less inverted flow in the 2 ½ pipes.

Think of it this way, a flowing river with no curves, no rocks flows smooth, but add some large rocks and a lot of smaller ones and you have inverted flow, disturbance, rapids! Because the volume of fluid verses flow rate has been reduced. The other thing that happens is that the sound gets louder! If you increase the width of the river at the area of rocks, but the rock disturbance area stays the same the water disturbance decreases as does the inverted flow & noise. 

The noise at the rapids is higher pitched and a racket type. Now think of Niagara Falls! Very loud, but deep toned. No invert flow, until after the falls. I could continue, but I hope this helps?

Does that explain it a little better?

14 hours ago, Wrongway said:

Wow, my head really hurts now Indian, thanks man. I think you broke something in my thinker lol. Seriously bro that was a very in depth article  and I thank you for sending it to me. I did also talk to flowmaster today. So since you guys have built and have way more experience with exhaust then I do what do you think about Flowmaster super 44s and 3" pipes running all the way back from the 3" header collector's? That was kinda where Flowmaster thought I should be with the 428.

What material are the headers made from, 409, 304, are they coated, are you keeping those as part of the system?

Can you tig or mig weld or know someone who does? The super 44s would be a good choice as a muffler, it’s 409 though, but on a 304 pipe it will last a long time. Plus when they need replaced they’ll come right off the 304.

Summit Racing sells, as do others, 304 pieces for making your own system. That would be my input. Buy 304 pipe, bends and flanges, Tig weld them together using 304 rod. Use the super 44s, but don’t clamp the 44s weld them to the 304 pipe.

42 minutes ago, 360Rocket said:

It is and then It isn’t. Might make this a temp fix and order it down the line. Still not sure that it is the fix for the tank but worth a try. 

Did you or can you disconnect that line at the hose connection of the fuel pump and see what happens? Does it pump out gas, does it suck, is it vapor? It might help diagnose that’s going on!

7 hours ago, Wrongway said:

OK guys, thank you I really appreciate all the input. 

In general I usually don’t comment much on exhaust stuff. Everybody usually has their own thoughts on what they think works, what they like too hear, etc. Still something you might want too consider is, what you want? Power, performance, sound, what? 

Attached is a link to an in depth article about exhaust, JustA headers, not really even getting into downstream. I’ve built systems for 45 years and two things I learned early on was louder wasn’t better, neither was quite, and bigger was better! 

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/exhaust_system_technology.htm

Most of the systems that you’re going to look at are 400 series stainless. It’s better than steel, but as it ages it starts to perform like steel. It slows down the laminar exhaust flow because of the resistance at the wall. You will see in this article how they talk about exhaust waves & pulses and how, depending on tube diameter, material selection and pipe transitions, a negative invert flow can be created that is counterproductive. A simple example, a V8 running headers into 3” collectors than into 2” duel pipes has a area of 6.28 sq. In. But the same engine could run the same headers into 3” collectors an than into one single 3” pipe. This delivers over 7” sq. In. Creates less shock waves that send inverted waves back at the valves, gives a deep rich tone. Also by slowing down the flow due to a larger pipe size you hear more of the throaty sound. Always see if you can get at least 304 stainless.

So as my buddy JustA would say, I’m JustA saying!

I’m not familiar with them either, but keep in mind that a loud raucous exhaust doesn’t always equate to power! I don’t know your engine, but type of engine design, hp, torque, compression, etc all play a role in how much or how little back pressure you need for optimum performance. I have seem guys loose more than a second in the quarter just because of exhaust. As I said, bigger and louder don’t necessarily mean better!

I would hate to see you spend good money and be disappointed. All you’re running are headers right!

6 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

LMAO   our Pontiac's wouldn't make it down the 4X4 2 track to get to my place.  Have not looked up the location of Hart.

6 hours ago, Frosty said:

Okay so we send Lead Foot Joe in first. With the new 9-inch rear end, he ought to be able to smooth everything out for the rest of us. SO we gotta buy him a new set of rear tires. 

Hart is off US 31 between Muskegon and Ludington.

The Take It to Hart Car Show is the last Saturday in July - this year July 27, 2019, 7:00AM to 4:00PM. It's about a 3-hour drive for me, you, and Joe to get to Hart. Longer for the notalltheres.

https://www.ci.hart.mi.us/parades-festivals-markets.php

Here’s a couple pics of Hodges I found

18 hours ago, Badge68 said:

Okay guys, need some help with this one. I just recently replaced the spark plugs last week, cleaned out throttle body and maf, and idler air control valve. I replaced the fuel filter today. But my car still hesitates upon acceleration. Not as bad as it did before, but still quite noticeable. Now, when it shifts, it kinda shifts hard into second gear, then my traction off light comes on, and stays on until I shut the car off, then turn it back on and it’ll go away. Just recently my service engine light came on, and I already knew I had to add oil, so I did. But it’s still on. Last time the oil was changed was about 5,000 miles ago. Any recommendations on what to do next would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. My car is a 1999 Pontiac Grand Am. 2.4 Liter. 

Well you’re going to need a OBD ll scan tool. It appears the traction control is coming on which reduces power output. This would kill acceleration. Which component it is would be a crap shoot without using a scan tool. Could be a wheel sensor, throttle switch, wiring etc...

1 hour ago, Jcro said:

I don’t have a manifold vacuum port so should I ditch the pcv valve and  just put a breather in it’s place?  I don’t understand what deduct the initial means? Sorry this is my first classic never felt with carbs before.

I think there’s some confusion here! The PCV isn’t the problem, or at least it should’nt be. I can’t see your engine, but the hose to the PCV should be coming from a fitting on the manifold or  large nipple coming out of one of the throttle plates. This means when the engine is running, just a idle you have high vacuum. By connecting the vacuum advance secondarys to that vacuum the secondary’s are opening at idle. When you step on the gas they close. That’s backwards! Port vacuum is taken from above the ventures, which means as you increase throttle, vacuum increases and starts to open the secondary’s. 

Timing, with the vacuum connected put a timing light on the harmonic. Increase the rpm’s until the timing stops increasing. This is the total timing of the engine. If it’s more than 36 degrees it’s to much. Check initial timing, remove and plug the vac line. Check the timing. So for instance say you have 40 total timing and 16 initial you need to set the initial at 12, not 16.

52 minutes ago, Jcro said:

I set the timing to 16 degrees and then hooked up the vaccum advance. Would that be the correct thing to do? The carbs have stock sizes for the accelerator pump/ power valve however the jets are 55 instead of 60. On my rear carb I ran a vacuum line to a PCV valve on my passenger valve cover, could that cause an issue? Also could it be a spak plug gap issue? 

Well a couple things. First you need to know the total vacuum your pulling. For a Pontiac 400, 36 degrees is about it. So whatever the total is with the vacuum you deduct the initial from that. The carb should be port vacuum not manifold. PCV is manifold vacuum. So that may be your biggest problem, your dropping vacuum just when you need it!

48 minutes ago, Frosty said:

I found this on Haggerty.

 

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/02/14/josephs-garage-is-a-pontiac-dealership

Hey, cool! I’ll have to visit there the next time we go to Boston! 

Thanks!

Yes Welcome!

I would agree! Either timing or a vacuum issue from the carbs. I.E. secondarys coming on to some, leak at the base gasket, etc. I don’t think it’s to much carb because of how you say it acts when you take your foot of the gas. I would check timing first, and not just the initial, but how it advances when you rev it. You may be getting a bad advance curve.

1 hour ago, Frosty said:

I have a theory and it is just a theory. The return line is coming from the fuel pump. As we all know, it is Pontiac's solution to over pressurization and vapor lock. Therefore it returns excess gas and gas vapor back to the fuel tank.

The pinched lined that 360 mentions narrows the flow of this gas/gas vapor back to the fuel tank, slowing its flow back to the tank. This constriction allows the slowed fuel to pick up significantly more ambient heat that it normally would.

Good possibility Frosty. That why I suggest if 360 can drop that line out of the way and put a temporary one in. Then take that to a container/gas can and see what comes out, or see if there is suction, cause we don’t know for sure at this point.

Looking at that system JustA is right, no vented cap for that year tank. Not that it would hurt. Still something is going on. Pressure, heat and or vacuum needs to be resolved.

22 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

Randy....sorry haven't checked back in.  Been busy.  Looks like most info has been covered for you N stuff to check.  I don't believe the cap is vented (could be totally WRONG!) BUT... Esp since you said you checked the vent/breather hose off the tank.  Should go up and behind the bumper? Or at least higher than the filler neck.  You said it was blowin air.   This should be a wide open vent and not allow any buildup in the tank unless partially plugged.  That said... a vented cap couldn't hurt .   Think of it like a gas can, when trying to pour with the vent cap closed.  This is the vacume effect Last Indian is talking about.  Flow will slow to a stop and then it will inhale air to relieve the vacume and start the flow again. Open the vent and it will flow smooth.  I'm a lil more concerned about the heat buildup in the fuel system.  Was hoping someone would have some thoughts on that.  It has me stumped.  Being hot on the engine is one thing...tank should be cold.

Agreed JustA, with heat issue, but if the the second line from the fuel pump is returning fuel to the tank, and I don’t know that for a fact, that would explain it. Randy, can you check and see if that is what that line is doing? 

1 hour ago, 360Rocket said:

No canister on the car. The tank isn’t creating a vacuum, it’s creating pressure. 

The return line in the passenger side is going to the bottom of the fuel pump. I’ll go and uncrush that return line and see if that fixes it. 

In either case, without a canister, the cap is the problem, I would suspect. Certain fuel pumps returned a portion of gas back to the tank. By your second explanation of the second line that means it’s retuning pressurized fuel to the tank and the cap isn’t releasing the pressure. That said that doesn’t sound typical for an OEM system, because of emissions. While only you can judge the condition, I have seen vacuum act just like it was pressure and literally blow the cap of a tank and into a guys face! 

A local parts store could check the cap for you.

Either way be careful buddy!

1 hour ago, JUSTA6 said:

Breather on the tank has to be partially plugged, as you said it's leaking pressure.   Can't think of any reason for the system to be HOT.  DR side is supply, Pass side lines are return.  

51 minutes ago, 360Rocket said:

No air conditioning. Steve where is the return line going to? I don’t have anything going to the carb from the return line? Where do I look for where the return line is going? 

Well, bare with me here, I don’t think you have pressure! I think you have a bad gas cap! That system I believe, vents most of its vacuum/pressure through the gas cap check valve. When the fuel pump draws fuel it must replace it with air, if it doesn’t a vacuum is created. I had this problem with the Z more than once. A quick check is leave the gas cap loose only to the first catch. 

No charcoal canister on your car right? If there is then the bent line is relevant.

1 hour ago, Ringo64 said:

Congrats @360Rocket for winning our March Pontiac of the Month!

Great choice!! Way to go 360! Really glad too see this!

3 hours ago, indymanjoe said:

I CAN DRIVE SLOW! I just have to put a piece of wood under the accelerator pedal LOL

Would that be driftwood? Car kind of drifts left as the tire scream HELP!!! 😂

18 hours ago, ofbsac said:

I have tried napa and advanced auto and they don't have a motor. I'v tried ames and franks and they don't have a motor

I just found S & N  electric here in sacramento that will rebuild mine for $120.

thanks

ted

Well, you could try these guys!

http://www.phillipsmusclecarparts.com/rebuilt-wiper-motors.html

Good luck!

8 minutes ago, casper50 said:

No lathe or mill.  I always wanted them as I can use them to make parts for my antique firearms.  Just haven't found one and no one to teach me.

 

Well if you ever get one, I think with some practice you’ll find your way well enough! Just, get some steel stock and practice a bit. You can also private message me and I’ll be glad to walk you through stuff!

38 minutes ago, Frosty said:

BETS?!?  Anyone? 

My mama didn’t raise no fool! I’m stickin with you! That’s “Joe” my pedal only goes to the floor?!

26 minutes ago, casper50 said:

There would have to be someone wanting them.  I'm sure they wouldn't pay $175 for mine when they could buy factory made stuff for the same price.   2 of the bolts are not something that I could find I'm sure.  They have very large washer at the head all one unit.  I just blasted mine clean, chased the threads and reused all the bolts, washers and short tubes.  None were badly deteriorated. 

Mike, a really nice job on the rubber pieces! 

A little something you might care about or not! The rubber you used looks to be fairly hard in durometer? So the tooling you used worked well clearly, but if you ever need to cut a bit softer durometer you need to make or use a coring type cutter for both the O.D & I.D. and use glycerin as a cutting lube. Also I don’t know whether you have a lathe or a mill, but if you do you could make the bolt you speak of. Taking or making the proper bolt size & length, than machining round stock to the diameter & thickness you want for a washer. Put a hole in the washer that makes it a press fit to the shank of the bolt. 

Just so food for thought!

14 minutes ago, ofbsac said:

My 62 grand prix's wiper motor works only when it feels like it. I turn it on and sometimes after driving for a while it will start to work. Switch works well on both speeds.

I have power to the motor and the ground is good.

ANY IDEAS?

Otherwise, I need another motor. Where can I get one ?

Lot's of rain x now.

thanks

Most likely the motor is just tired from age and weather, not uncommon for what you described. You can get a good replacement from NAPA. Unless you are looking for something more with relevance to absolute concourse condition.

6 hours ago, Kurk_Kurk said:

Oh, i've considered it but im working in a driveway with very limited space. Besides, all other metal is still sitting with factory fresh paint. What baffles me, from the photos, is how your car didn't collapse on itself. I thought that if you cut the car up that much, it would warp around itself. How did you manage to avoid that?

Curtis, well yes and no. Depending on what, where and how you cut, sheet metal will warp or it won’t! In the case of my wife’s “74” all I really used was the roof, tops of the rear quarters and half of the upper pillar post. Would it have been cheaper to find a new car? Maybe, but it would not have had a full frame and all the geometrical weight shifts I made to allow this car to handle.

If you look, all the upset edges, double layers sheet metal, and back window structure were left in place. This held the rear quarters together. The front pillar posts are a triple structured arch with an inner roof panel to hold that whole structure together. When I put the pillar post halves together I inserted a ½ SS rod about 12” long into the hollow channel that exists, then welded them together. In this way any collision that might occur would never be able to compromise the welds of thin sheet metal. The most damaged part of this car was basically the lower firewall/frame mount area and front floor, similar to what you have found.

Here are a few more pics to give you an idea of how it progressed.

One other avenue you could consider if you can find a good candidate, maybe from the south! Is to cutout the firewall lock stock and barrel, as I did with my wife’s “74” Z.

The whole firewall from the pillar post to the floor was replaced using a wrecked “81Firebird as the donor. In this case the firewall was welded in at the pillar post, mid point, & then the rockers. As the the entire car was redone.