Bearing preload?

[Bonne61]

Hey there,

Is anyone able to tell me…are ball bearing style front hubs usually preloaded on installation in the same way needle roller bearing style are?

Regards,

Paul

[64 kiwi boni]

35 minutes ago, Bonne61 said:

Hey there,

Is anyone able to tell me…are ball bearing style front hubs usually preloaded on installation in the same way needle roller bearing style are?

Regards,

Paul

Hi Paul 

yip that’s how I set mine .

but I checked them again after a few miles 

[Last Indian]

Well, I hear what Kiwi is saying & I’m not saying he is wrong, because I’m not clear on what is implied. So I would need a better explanation of what you are doing.
A front spindle bearing that takes a tapered roller bearing is set with a preload in a certain way because the races are tapered. So you are actually loading the rollers between the two tapered races of each assembly. While a ball bearing, bearing is already assembled & as a unit already loaded since it is not tapered. The preload on ball bearings to each other, like a hub, that is set in a manner that only loads the two lower race, without any movement of the actual races, against each other. If you do it any other way, you are setting the balls of the assembly in shear against the upper & lower races of its respective unit. 
 

Just trying to make sure I understand what is being asked!

[Bonne61]

10 hours ago, Last Indian said:

Well, I hear what Kiwi is saying & I’m not saying he is wrong, because I’m not clear on what is implied. So I would need a better explanation of what you are doing.
A front spindle bearing that takes a tapered roller bearing is set with a preload in a certain way because the races are tapered. So you are actually loading the rollers between the two tapered races of each assembly. While a ball bearing, bearing is already assembled & as a unit already loaded since it is not tapered. The preload on ball bearings to each other, like a hub, that is set in a manner that only loads the two lower race, without any movement of the actual races, against each other. If you do it any other way, you are setting the balls of the assembly in shear against the upper & lower races of its respective unit. 
 

Just trying to make sure I understand what is being asked!

To be clear, when I set bearing preload on a hub I usually tighten the castellated nut until it is firm (ie: hub doesn’t freely spin), then alternatively loosen & tighten the nut progressively until the hub spins freely but with some resistance. Then the nut gets tightened until it aligns with the next split pin hole.

My question- is this method correct for both styles of bearing (I am referring to the front hubs on my ‘61 Bonneville)?
 

[Last Indian]

9 hours ago, Bonne61 said:

To be clear, when I set bearing preload on a hub I usually tighten the castellated nut until it is firm (ie: hub doesn’t freely spin), then alternatively loosen & tighten the nut progressively until the hub spins freely but with some resistance. Then the nut gets tightened until it aligns with the next split pin hole.

My question- is this method correct for both styles of bearing (I am referring to the front hubs on my ‘61 Bonneville)?
 

Yup, I got that. And you are 100% correct with regard to tapered roller bearings. That said I must plead stupid with regard to ever seeing any old school GM rear wheel drive cars that used a ball bearing arrangement for the front spindles! As I indicated a few posts back, it looks as though someone modified that hub. So my point is that you do not install two opposed ball bearing on a shaft, in this case a spindle, without a internal sleeve that runs between the two inner bearing races & that sleeve can’t compress. So when you tighten the nut you tighten it to a torque spec & leave it there. Just like you do for a front wheel drive cars front hub. This is because of how the construction of a ball bearing is designed vs a roller bearing. I just what to make sure I understand what you are precisely asking, as I don’t want to steer you wrong. 

[64 kiwi boni]

9 hours ago, Bonne61 said:

To be clear, when I set bearing preload on a hub I usually tighten the castellated nut until it is firm (ie: hub doesn’t freely spin), then alternatively loosen & tighten the nut progressively until the hub spins freely but with some resistance. Then the nut gets tightened until it aligns with the next split pin hole.

My question- is this method correct for both styles of bearing (I am referring to the front hubs on my ‘61 Bonneville)?
 

Paul last Indian is bang on, and your bang on for your cars that run tapered bearings.

 the 61 having ball bearings, each bearing presses into the hub and shoulders on the hub, as long as both are pressed right home, thats all you have to worry about ( along with packing the bearings with grease beforehand) 

the flat washer and castle nut are only ever going to clamp the inner section of the outer ball bearing, so you cant stuff it up no matter how firm you hand tighten that caslte nut.( unlike a tapered bearing that you CAN over load) 🙂

soo..... castle nut up to firm with a spanner, if the pin hole lines up, jobs done! if it doesnt back it off to the next hole back.

Just spin the wheel to ensure its free and happy, pull push the wheel holding top to bottom to make sure there is next to no slack. 

jobs done! 

but just like i said, do a few miles, jack her up and re check that you have no slop. 

And !!!! go drive the wheels off her !!!!

[Last Indian]

25 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Paul last Indian is bang on, and your bang on for your cars that run tapered bearings.

 the 61 having ball bearings, each bearing presses into the hub and shoulders on the hub, as long as both are pressed right home, thats all you have to worry about ( along with packing the bearings with grease beforehand) 

the flat washer and castle nut are only ever going to clamp the inner section of the outer ball bearing, so you cant stuff it up no matter how firm you hand tighten that caslte nut.( unlike a tapered bearing that you CAN over load) 🙂

soo..... castle nut up to firm with a spanner, if the pin hole lines up, jobs done! if it doesnt back it off to the next hole back.

Just spin the wheel to ensure its free and happy, pull push the wheel holding top to bottom to make sure there is next to no slack. 

jobs done! 

but just like i said, do a few miles, jack her up and re check that you have no slop. 

And !!!! go drive the wheels off her !!!!

I must admit I’ve never worked on anything, except FWD, that ran ball bearing hubs. Everything else has been tapered roller bearings, at least that I can remember, but I am older than dirt so the memory may be - - - what were we talking about? Oh yeah so the last time I had lunch 

[Bonne61]

Thank you @Last Indian and @64 kiwi boni 🙌🏼

I'll have to wait until the parts arrive from Frank's, to see which style they are (as I had one of each when I got it 😬)

The parts I've ordered are off a '63/'64, but apparently will fit as I'm changing spindles & all. I presume these will be tapered, which is what I'm used to.

Will pick up my new tyres when I get home - I managed to find some Maxxis 215/70 x 14 at a great price ($265 ea, everything else I found was $440 - $600 ea). I've never paid that much for high performance tyres on bike or car, can't see the sense in spending that on low tech tyres just because they're painted white on one side 🤷🏼‍♂️

And, my rear brakes should be bonded & radius ground by then too.

Finally I'll be off to a good (re) start!

Many thanks again.