Frosty

I was a great time. I just was not prepared to get a new motor.

It's not that hard. Everyone knows that Chevy parts are cheaper than Pontiac parts!

It was a mixed bag.... It was a great show, and it was only 45 miles from my house (in Pontiac Michigan). It was the 40th Anniversary of the GTO that year. I got to meet Rhys Millen and he did a phenomenal drifting demo in the (then) new '04 GTO. My dad was invited to get into a drifting GTO driven by another stunt driver. I also got to test drive the GTO, and Northstar V8 powered Bonneville. I was impressed with both cars. I talked with Arnie Beswick, Paul Zarrazine (noted musclecar expert and author of the GTO Restoration Guide) and Jim Wangers. I had attended Wanger's talk in 2004 at the All-GM Nationals at Carlisle (PA) just before the GTO convetion. He had given a lecture on how understated the old GTO TV commercials were and why. He remembered me. In Carlisle, I had challenged him that Pontiac was still understating the new GTO in it's TV Ads. He was taken aback by my comments and he asked some follow-up questions at the convention. In the end, I convinced him of my point. BTW - I spoke to Jim briefly at the POCI convention in Charleston WV this summer too. I picked up an uber-cheap 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust system for my '72 convertible. Pypes was justing getting into the exhaust market that year and they were selling a complete exhaust system at the convention for just $250!!!! The really bad thing that happened was coming home from the convention, my car started running hot. About 5 miles from home, I was on the expressway when the engine starting knocking. I turned it off as quickly as I could but the engine seized up before I got the ignition off. I had blown my 455. So for the rest of the convention I spent buying engine parts. I got another 455 block in the swap meet area. Turns out my 455 was not a numbers matching engine anyway. So I ended up getting another '72 date coded 455 block. When the old engine was torn down, it turned out that the number 8 rod broke into 3 pieces and ripped holes in both sides of the oil pan. My engine builder had never seen that happen before (broken into 3 pieces insteand of just two). I still have the old 455 block. It needs to be sleeved but it can otherwise be re-used. The new motor was bored .030 over, now making it a 462. There's no replacement for displacement!!!

That is exactly why I went to the auction in the first place.

The local papers are reporting that the government already got over $11 Billion from the IPO. The 'experts' think it will be another 2-3 years before the government sells off it's remaining ownership in the company. So GM has paid back over $5B in cash, plus $11B in the IPO. Just another $30B or so to go before the US government gets paid back. Then of course, the Canadian government has to get paid back too. Good Morning America reported this morning that some Saudi Prince is investing $500 Million into GM.

I'd love to catch up with those good ol' boys. Of course, like Pro hints, I won't hold my breath. I am stilling waiting for GE to catch up with me when I am in WV !!! With a new trailer, sounds like we need to make another run to NPD soon. We should start mapping out our winter/spring swap meet sessions too. In a few more weeks, I hope to be well enough to start wrenching again. Perhaps Pro can come back down in June and we can really cruise Woodard. Of course we also need to map out any August Woodward Dream Cruise plans by spring.

I am already registered, I have my hotel reservation at the host hotel too. I've been to the Corvette Museum twice before already. I've never been to the plant though or the dragway. I will have to map out the activities for the week since this is also a family vacation. So sightseeing with my wife and boy are a must. Sadly, I just can't spend all my time looking at chrome and talking to car owners. My dad was an AC Spark Plug/Delco Electronics program manager for the digital dash that was in the 4th gen Vettes. In 2002, my dad and I took a cross county trip down to Mississippi to Cruisin' the Coast. Along the way, we stopped in Bowling Green at the Corvette Museum. When he saw the only remaining 1983 Corvette there, he almost cried. He and his team had worked for 4 years to bring about that dash into production and to loose an entire model year ('83) due to quality and re-tooling problems broke his heart. It was one of the crowning acheivements of his career. I am tempted to buy a memorial brick for him.

Sadly, it's too far for me to swing this year. If it was closer to the midwest, I'd go. I went in to it in 2004.

Bummer. Say "Hi" to Chuck Hansen for me.

Well, GM's IPO is complete. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...ate=fullarticle So now government motors is now diluted to under 50% control, but Uncle Sam is still not out of the car business yet. Perhaps 1-2 years from now they will be out of the car business. This is a necessary step. Perhaps this will eventually lead to a return of Pontiac. Right now, don't hold your breath.

The POCI's annual national convention will be held in Bowling Green, Kenutcky from July 5-9, 2011. Trips to the Corvette Museum and plant, drag racing at Bowling Green dragway, and other activities are being planned. http://www.poci.org/POCI_Annual_Convention_Registration.cfm

The GTOAA will be holding their annual convention in Portland Oregon from July 4-8, 2011. This is the first time their convention has been held on the west coast. http://www.gtoaa.org/national.cfm http://goatherd.com/events/2011-gtoaa-intl-convention/

The date for the Michigan Widetracker's annual spring Dustoff all-Pontiac/Oakland/GMC car show has been set for Saturday, June 11, 2011. It will be held at the Springfield Oaks County Park in Davisburg Michigan. The flyer for the show is available from the attached link; http://www.widetrackers.com/dustoff2011.JPG

If you find out, let me know. Since I know a couple of dealers, they have both told me the same thing. Any signs with the Pontiac arrowhead or Pontiac name on it is considered licensed property of General Motors and must be returned to GM. What GM does with it once it is returned, I have no idea. I suspect they scrap or re-cycle them. But that is a guess on my part. Also, there was a Pontiac dealership that went bankrupt about 20 miles from me (it was one of the GM dealers that GM revoked their franchise as part of their dealer restructuring). I went to the banruptcy auction. All the Pontiac logo signs were taken off the building and the parking lot entrance and already returned to GM and were not part of the dealership's parts and equipment auction. Believe me, if I could have purchased a Pontiac Service sign, the P-O-N-T-A-C from the outside of the dealership, or the arrowhead, I would have tried to get it. So if there is a way, please let me know.

So what would you recommend that GM management or the unions do differently? There is already a 2-tier wage system in place at the national level for the UAW. So incoming workers make 50% less than the current workers do ($28 vs $14 a hour max). Plus I heard a rumor that the Lake Orion Michigan plant (which is currently shutdown for re-tooling to build the new Buick Regal and Chevy Cruze) will require existing workers on the Regal line to work for 40% less (according to some local agreement - not part of the national agreement), although I have not confirmed this one yet. So without some restraint, the automotive industry could revert back to the pre-Henry Ford days when only the rich could afford a car. Once Henry installed and perfected the assembly line and made cars inexpensive, his workers could actually afford the cars they built. At $14/hour and a 40-hour work week, it does not take a genius to figure out that this is not a wage that will help car sales significantly.

Anybody remember the '87-91 Pontiac Tempest? It was a Canada-only version of the Chevy Corsica.

Any "new" Pontiacs will be sold at discounted prices as others have said. October 31st also marks the official end to the 2010 model year and the start of 2011. Since most Pontiacs were built in 2009 or very, very early 2010, these cars will be marked down as a year-old car and discounted appropriately. I took my wife's Aztek to get the oil changed and tires rotated yesterday and the service manager at the dealership told me that nothing was done to commemorate Pontiac's passing. I should also note that this is one of the dealers that wanted to buy Pontiac from GM too. So the dealership is moving forward with the GMC Terrain, Buick Lacrosse and Regal, and the new GMC Sierra Denali HD. Clearly GM still has a gap in their "performance" segment that they have yet to replace it with anything other than perhaps the Camaro.

Dude, I'm impressed.

While many of us were busy passing out candy to little ghouls and goblins, a milestone was quickly approaching. As 12 midnight, November 1, 2010, Pontiac Motor Division officially and completely ceased operations by General Motors. While it comes as no suprise to any of us, this is the day that dealerships across North American have to stop advertising and selling "new" Pontiacs. Pontiac signs and logos will start coming down off dealership buildings, if they haven't already ready. So begins the orphanage of Pontiac again. With some luck, success, and passion by GM, perhaps this great marque can rise again like the preverbial phoenix, or should I say Firebird? Perhaps, but for now, only time will tell. Don't loose the faith and keep lobbying your local GM dealers for a new Pontiac whenever you get the chance.

The Banshee was based on the Corvette chassis of the day. The XLR is based on the C6 chassis.

Heck, I remember watching my dad install seat beats into our used '61 Buick Electra when I was just a lad! Seat belts were not required in those days but my dad beleived in them.

Dang notallthere, I didn't know you had it in ya'! Dang whipper snappers! Don't they know the open road is good for 'em? So chuck the PDA. get out there, burn some hydro carbons and see the country.

The last thing I have to say on this topic - which I have found very enjoyable - is Vette pricing. Let's face it, since the Vette has the premiere technology in it, that technology comes with high price. Being lead adopters of new technology is always more expensive than waiting awhile and letting prices come down as demand goes up. So designing a new Vette will always be more expensive than a new Camaro or Impala. That is not to say that this cars won't have innovative features too. However, you won't find carbon fiber front ends, 6-piston brake calipers, Z or high rated tires, supercharged LS9 engines under the hood of these cars either. These cars don't typically warrant that level of technology or sophistication. Furthermore, the Camaro and Impala typically are high production numbers. So they have a different break-even point than the Vette. Selling 60K units for the Vette vs. 120k Camaros is a whole different price point. So even if the cost of the developing either car was the same, you can spread your costs out further on the Camaro or Impala. Profit margin is another thing to consider. GM's profit margin must be close to 50% (or more) on the Vette, while I would expect the margin on a Camaro or Impala to be quite a bit lower. Vette pricing is then based on high cost plus high profit margin and divided by low volume numbers. So pricing for the average joe is simply out of the question. It is clearly intended to be an elitist supercar - pure and simple. It has become America's Supercar - no offense to the Viper or Ford GT fans but let's face facts - the Vette has been around a lot longer than either of these halo cars from Detroit, plus they are now both out of production! So the Vette lives on. Reputation is another thing. You generally don't see TV commercials for Corvettes - you might see a Corvette in the background for another Chevy or GM product. You will see ads for Camaros and Impalas - especially if there are new styling designs for these cars. So Corvettes reputation alone will help sell the cars themselves, while the daily drivers need some encouragment via advertising from time to time.

Thanks. I appreciate that.

No insult taken. You make an interesting point Ringo. I will answer the question of the Chevrolet as the entry level brand first. Some histroy is needed. When Alfred P. Sloan was the GM President and CEO, he felt that GM had enough car brands that there was a car for every wallet. So he aligned the brands with pricing accordingly. The idea being that you would buy a different, more luxious brand as you got older and could afford a more luxious (and pretigous) car. Chevrolet was the entry level brand (and a car for every purpose), then Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, and Cadillac in that order. GM tried to make GEO and then Saturn the entry point but that failed. Today, it is still Chevrolet, Buick, and Cadillac. So Chevrolet is still the entry point and still has vehicle for every purpose. Chevrolet still outsells all other GM brands combined nationally by a wide margin. It was that way in the glory days of the muscle car too. That is why Chevy execs have so much pull on GM. The fact that Chevrolet has the Corvette is good and bad. On the good side, the Vette represents a halo car for Chevy but it also the de facto halo car for the corporation as a whole. It exemplifies all the latest modern performance technology. It is the showcase for GM performance. Several other concept cars based on the early 50s Corvettes by Buick and Oldsmobile never saw production either. The Buick Wildcat II comes to mind for example. It is bad because of the positioning of the rest of Chevrolet as the entry point has made the GM brass reluctant to allow a company competitor to the Vette. Why would you compete with your own corporate halo car? It is like Chrysler building a competitor to the Viper....why would you do it? Now comparing a Vette competitor vs the Camaro/Trans Am/F-body has some problems. First of all is the production. Vette production is low - about 50-60k units a year. F-body is about 200-300k units a year when both cars were produced. So volume is a problem. The Bowling Green plant is only geared for the level of production. You could argue that the XLR line could be converted to add some level of production - which is true. Still the XLR was limited production too. So let's say that about 100k units can be produced in Bowling Green. The Owshawa plant is producing over 100k Camaros (V6s and V8s combined) alone. I can see production increasing to over 150k units - espeacially once the convertible and a rumored Z28 comes out. Next is the market for Camaro/Trans Am vs the Vette class cars. Camaro and Trans Ams are aimed at young people. It is what I call "affordable performance cars" for the 20-30 something year olds. It is less than $40k for a new Camaro (which I personally think is still too expensive - but that is me). So the average college grad can afford a new Camaro or TA. The last point I want to make here is that the Camaro and Trans Am are seen as daily drivers, cars that you woudl drive day and night, all year long, especially in the winter. A comarable Trans Am should sticker out for slightly more than a similar equiped Camaro too. The Corvette is the ultimate showcase of technology and performance for GM, so price and target age is not a consideration. The Corvette essentially sells itself because of what it is and it's performance benchmarks. So pricing is based on low production numbers, which drives the price up. Therefore only those people with much deeper wallets or 401k plans can afford them. Lets face it too, you don't normally think of a Corvette as daily driver either. I seldom see Corvettes on the winter roads here in Michigan as an example. So those people that own a new Corvette can probably afford a new Buick or Cadillac as well. I am not saying that a Vette competitor is not possible, but I don't think GM is going to sanction it anytime soon. I think the XLR is a once in a lifetime event. I doubt that GM will be doing that again unless another Bob Lutz comes along.