Old guy44

It is a metallurgy issue. For reasons I cannot even begin to understand a lot of manufacturers are going to tool steel. The one that shattered gives a better view, with the exception of the center hub I did not find a piece bigger than a quarter inch square. The lesson here is if you are going to be replacing springs and retainers make damn sure that the retainers are not tool steel because regardless of what they say about how good it is, tool steel is brittle. PAC still makes springs and chromoly retainers for almost anything. I wonder how many people there are out there sitting on a similar hand grenade?

Update on the Pontiac. The lunati retainers were for an 11/32 valve stem so I found some Pac retainers also chromoly that fit. Got the right head back together and started reassembly and when I pulled the left cover to replace the retainers, this was waiting for me. Needless to say my decision to replace all the retainers was warranted. I plan to send all the retainers back to Comp and see if I get a response.

Kiwi, My sympathies, one of the problems with aging is that these phone calls become more frequent.

Talked to Comp cams and found out that the cam that went in also came with a valve spring kit, my aging brain fade forgot that. I asked about an upgrade on the retainers for obvious reasons and got a really impressive song and dance. If I wanted to buy another complete spring kit we could do yada yada yada. This kit came with tool steel retainers and we have never seen one break etc. etc. etc. I will say that I love the cam grind but there will be pictures of a snow ball fight in Hell on the front page of the local newspaper before I ever use any of their valve train components again. I found a set of Lunati Steel retainers at Summit Racing which are on their way to me as we speak.

Air pressure checked the cylinder in question and it did bend the intake valve. There was contact but not enough to damage hard parts. Got the head off and went over to talk to Rubin who has been doing heads for the better part of 25 years and asked him for advice on retainers and keepers. He said I don't know, I have never seen a retainer break on an LS or LT. Well I said you have now. The only time he has ever replaced retainers on them is to put on a lighter retainer but other than that he just reuses them. So I have second thoughts on the lottery ticket. I will call comp cams in the morning to see what their opinion is. All I know at this point is that it will not leave the driveway with any one of the present retainers on it.

Ditto on the repair bill. If that valve had dropped being an open top aluminum block it for sure would have taken out the cylinder, piston and probably the head and I would be looking for an LT long block. I am on my way out this morning to pull the intake manifold because you can't see the lifters through the pushrod hole. The lifters sit in a plastic tray which keeps them from rotating and I need to verify that the tray did not get broken. Then I am on my way over to see the best head man probably in the So Cal area for a recommendation on retainers and keepers. I plan on replacing them all. No way in the world can I be that lucky again. I have had my fingers wrapped around a wrench for over 70 years and have never heard of anything like this. I'll let you know how the lottery turns out

Had a bit of a problem today. Was out trying to scour up some odds and ends I needed. Was coming home and all of a sudden the Indian started shaking and making a noise I had never heard before. Got off the freeway and found the nearest parking place I could. Pulled over and opened the hood. The noise sounded like it was coming from under the right valve cover. Shut it off and called the auto club. Got the car in the driveway and pulled the cover. Found a shattered spring retainer. Here is the weird part, The engine is an L83 which has beehive valve springs. The biggest part of the retainer somehow managed to get wedged between the valve spring and the valve stem and it DID NOT SWALLOW THE VALVE!!!! It bent the pushrod so the rocker arm was not moving and everything seems to have held. I plan to put air pressure into the cylinder tomorrow morning to see if it bent the valve but I do not think it did. If it did not I can fix it without pulling the heads. I will be finding the strongest retainers that are made but I think I should go down and buy a lottery ticket. More to come.

Do you know why the Brits drink warm beer? Because Lucas wired their refrigerators.

I don't know if I mentioned it but I have a set of aftermarket discs on the front of mine that are less than acceptable. I am going with Wilwood because it is a known item. People I know use them for all kinds of racing and I do not know of anyone that has had a problem. As stated they have a complete rear kit for the 9.3 Olds Pontiac drop out with an integral parking brake. I will be using hat style rotors that will fit my existing hubs and calipers designed for a mid 60's vintage Impala kit that uses the same rear kit. These parts are designed to work together and should provide a good balanced brake system. I will need to fabricate caliper brackets which should not be terribly difficult because it is a bolt on caliper as opposed to sliding. I got involved in an '07 Beetle for my granddaughter which started out to be a small project and wound up being a second career. Most VW electrical parts are VDO which I am certain is an abbreviation for Voodoo. Best explanation I have found for German electronics. I am finally done with it and will be ordering the Wilwood parts next week. I will not be changing any hard parts because as stated I will be fabricating all my own brackets. I am not disparaging MP brakes don't know anything about them, I just need to know that when I am done I will have a set of braked capable of dealing with Los Angeles freeway traffic and the the second attempt will be the last. As for Rubber try OPG They should have it or know who does. Good luck

Got two of them on my '63. The left one is inside adjustable, the old cable adjustment, so I know that it is a factory location

I have a 63 Catalina convertible with an L83 and 6l80 trans and I can state with certainty that you are never going to get it to stop with the drum brakes. I do not know about the suspension on the 61 how it compares to my 63 but In a few weeks I will be doing a Wilwood install on my 63. Wilwood has a rear kit for the olds pontiac rear end but nothing for the front so I will be engineering one from parts. I plan to post the install on the how to forum with pictures and measurements, whatever information I learn from the install. My guess is that your 61 has the olds pontiac drop out as they started using them in the late 50's I do not know how the 61 front suspension differs from my 63 but my guess would be that fabricating caliper mounts would be the only difference in the install. Once I figure out for sure what rotor and caliper I eventually wind up with I will post the Wilwood part numbers and exacting measurements on the fabricated brackets. I do know that I will need to use my existing front hubs. Fortunately for me Wilwood is only 30 miles down the road so if I need something a call and a short trip will get it.

If it is for the 68 firebird shown I would suggest you look at the Wilwood web site. They are not cheap but there is a reason why racers use them pretty much exclusively./

Wilwood makes a complete bolt on rear kit for the Olds Pontiac rear end. Part number 140-11397. My research has found what appears to be a front rotor part number 160-15506 and a front caliper 120-13846. The rotor is just a hat and will require using your existing hub. The caliper is the one that Wilwood uses for the disc brake kit for the 66 Caprice, which except for brackets uses same kit as they supply for the Pontiac rear end. The Caprice is a similarly large and heavy vehicle, within a few hundred pounds one way or another. My assumption is that if it will stop a Caprice it will stop the Pontiac. My assumption is that they balanced the kit for the Caprice so it should work well on the Pontiac. If you are in a rush sorry but the Pontiac brakes are the third thing on the must do list. When I do it I will take pictures, measurements and whatever else I need to accomplish it. The big thing will be the caliper brackets. I will need to whack them out of 1/4 plate. I have a set of disc brakes on the front that I found on ebay but I do not recommend them as they were designed by Walt Disney's animation department. I can use those brackets for a basic template but the calipers mount differently so will need to engineer that side. The reason no one makes a kit, or should I say that no one makes a kit worth having, is that Pontiac was GM's red haired bastard child. they did everything different. When I rebuilt my front suspension I could not find bushings for anything. I finally used either Buick or Cadillac lower bushings but had to drill out the center sleeve because the sleeve is for a half inch bolt and Pontiac uses a 9/16 or 5/8 don't remember which. I made my own upper bushings by using the factory shell and center sleeve and whacking out plastic bushings. This has been my experience with everything on this car that I have had to fix. Fortunately I grew up in the era of making it yourself when there were no aftermarket suppliers like today. RE: the A/C. I have an L83 and 6L80 trans in mine, if you go to the how to section there is a long write up on the install. I used the radiator, compressor condenser and evaporator out of the truck and built a firewall/under dash unit out of a highly modified unit from a 98 Crown Vic. We are going into summer So I will see how it works. If you are interested I have brackets, compressors, pulleys, belts, 4 row aluminum radiator, condensors, some hoses,100 amp alternator for two systems that I built when it had the original 389 in it. If you are ever in the LA area I would sell the whole mess for bargain basement price just to get it out of the garage. The L83 was cammed by Comp and has other minimal modifications for performance and it is a lot more interested in going fast than it is in stopping fast. So the Wilwood brakes are a necessity because I cant play with mustangs, camaros and possibly hemi's. If I need to stop fast I am screwed.

It is my understanding that the real demise of Pontiac was because the sitting US President at that time took a failing GM stole it from the investors and gave it to the union. We won't mention any names. In the transaction GM was notified what nameplates they would be manufacturing. Our beloved supreme court of the time decided that what he did was completely illegal but they would allow it this time. I can only imagine what the news media would have done to the last president if he had done something like that.

I agree with JUSTA6, seems a bit high for what it is. However it appears to be a clean body and it is all there. If it truly is all California there should not be any rust. Looking at the underside it appears to be pretty much unmolested. The 305 with a 4 speed was probably an insurance thing. In Cal in those days depending on different factors it was difficult to insure a "performance" automobile with over X amount of horsepower. I saw more than one 6 cyl 4 speed Camaro. Having spent that much time in storage I would wonder what damage the rats did to the interior and wiring. In retrospect maybe I am wrong on the value as things seem to be going up.

This is totally off subject but I just discovered yesterday the my car will start in reverse. The original neutral safety switch is set up for the original shift pattern PNDLR, the current 6l80 trans is PRNDM which means that it will start in reverse. Fortunately I installed a keyless entry push button start which requires your foot on the brake to start so the discovery while startling was not disasterous. Does anyone know of a neutral switch similar in size and shape to the original for the later shift pattern that I can adapt to my steering column?

Or maybe neither. Saw a 57 nomad on the road yesterday that looked like it hit the beach with John Wayne in a WWII movie. Puffing smoke and rust poking through the original? white paint but running nonetheless.

Don't know what engine he has in it but if it is a later engine with a quadraJUNK carburetor I have seen many under hood fires caused by that questionable carburetor. Just a word of warning to anyone that runs one.

Problem is that in my youthful stupidity I used up my lifetime supply of alcohol before my 27th birthday so now in my aged stupidity I can't sedate it.

Cataract surgery fixes the eyes but you can't fix stupid with duct tape.

After the engine trans swap the car still had the boat in the water ride. I contacted Alden to see what they could do and they set me up with some coilovers suited to my car and weight. The install is pretty much straight forward EXCEPT FOR the spring diameter. In my case if you read the engine install I mentioned that the upper control arm mounts needed to be moved. I did that after disassembling the front suspension which you probably will not need to do. The factory springs are 4 inches ID the Aldens are 3 3/4. Yes the quarter inch makes a big difference. The last coil on the Alden springs has been flattened out to make a flat surface on the top. I had to get into the spring and grind out the inside of that last coil to get the full 3 3/4 inch available. it also gave me a rounded edge to pound the spring into the pocket. This it would be much easier on a hoist but I don't have access to one and had to do it on the ground. If you do this on the ground get the tallest jack stands your jack will allow because you will need all the room possible under the car. The spring pocket is made for a 4 inch spring nothing smaller so it is necessary to bend the flange toward the center to be able to use the 3 3/4 spring. I used a 12 inch crescent wrench adjusted as tight as possible on the pocket flange and bent the flange in all the way around. you will need to loosen the mount bolts to swing the lower control arms out of the way. I went around the flange three times bending it in a little at a time until the Alden spring would fit over the flange. I installed them and bolted everything back together. I jacked the car up as high as my jack would go and dropped it hard 3 or 4 times to start pounding the springs into the pockets. When I got everything settled as much as possible I adjusted the riding height. With the height adjusted I aligned the front end and took it for a road test. I can honestly say that I will never own a car of this vintage again without putting Alden's in the front. The difference in the ride and cornering is night and day. I can casually drive down the freeway with all its bumps and stuff one handed completely relaxed. It goes over the freeway bumps, rebounds and it is done. No more bump steer no more leaning over on the average curve, it is a completely different car. Admittedly it was a real PITA but worth every moment of aggravation. The next installment will be putting Wilwood brakes on. Wilwood has a rear kit for the Olds/ Pontiac rear end, but nothing for the front of a full size Pontiac. As soon as I get some information on how much front caliper I will need to balance with the rear kit I will buy everything and fabricate all the brackets and stuff to put them on. I have found a wilwood rotor that will work with the stock front hubs, correct diameter, thickness, offset, Just need caliper information which I am not finding anyone at wilwood either willing of able to answer.

Must have been the same guy that built the one for Nudie. Except for the brand change to Cadillac they look pretty much the same as I recall. That was 50 years ago, a stretch for a memory that currently has about a 45 minute life span. They say that the second thing to go is the memory but I do not remember what the first is.

Makes sense. His eldo was a 66 so he probably patterned it after one of the forerunners. I just remember seeing it in front of his store when I was driving by.

Any idea of where this picture was taken. There used to be a western store in North Hollywood named Nudies Rodeo Tailors. He drove a 66 Eldorado convertible that looked very much like that Bonneville, the horns, the guns, the horse shoes the whole schtick.

I was around during all this experimental engine designing. It was all primarily to win at NASCAR events. Back in that day the cars were "stock" and to run anything the factory had to produce X number of them to make them NASCAR legal. The hemi heads that Mickey ran on his Pontiac engines were of his development and not a factory thing. Mickey was the Pontiac guy back then, his drag cars the 4 engine Bonneville streamliner, he even cut the left bank off of a Pontiac engine and made a 4 cylinder to run the 4 cylinder dragster class. I am sure that he had more than a little help from Larry Ofrio who also made a 4 valve hemi for the small block chevy. The reason for the Pontiac hemi was that the stock heads were not capable of producing enough HP to compete with the early 396 Chrysler hemi so if you can't beat them join them. There were many factory experimental engines, the OHC 427 FE ford, some of which exist to this day. Chevy built two 427's one was the Z11 which was basically a 409 bottom end enlarged to 427 with a redesigned head and intake manifold system. The manifold was raised and it had a separate valley cover to get the engine heat off of the manifold. They also built the HD 427 which was again an enlarged 409 style block only with a square top instead of the slant top block and had an early version of the 396, 427, 454 heads. I never saw one but rumor had it that it could outrun anything on the track. Chevy did build enough of them to qualify as NASCAR legal, they never made it into a car but they were in the parts book as an option. A mystical it is there but I defy you to actually get one option. They never ran it that I am aware of, the rumor I heard was that it ate pushrods so fast that it could not make 500 miles. I do not know how accurate some of the Chevy information is but it came from a friend who used to drive one of the super light 63 stingrays for Mickey Thomas and some of the information came second hand out of Bill Thomas's engine shop. I do know that the Z11 existed because I once had the opportunity to buy a race prepped Z11 out of his warehouse. They were complete except for starter and alternator. $1200.00 each (no that is not a misprint) and he had 6 of them lined up at the back of the shop strapped down to shipping pallets. In my youthful ignorance I was thinking that they were the HD and when I saw the Z11 I was thinking 409 so didn't buy one. If I knew then what I know now I would have bought all 6 sealed them in plastic and stored them in my garage. Today one of those engines would be worth about 50K. I am sure that there are many more interesting engine stories of the era, these are just the ones I am aware of.