Old guy44

If I had a picture of her I would glue it inside my toilet. I know about broomsticks

20 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

i would certainly like to help so pictures would be great , considering i am on the other side of the planet !! gees if i was around the corner ! i would pop around and help you bag the ex wife like i do !!! hahaha

Pictures would not help as most of the adjustments are inside the window pockets. I was out there today ripping the interior out, door panels, inside trim panels in rear, access covers etc. I sat there for a long time looking at it and dawn finally broke over Germany. There is only one fixed point on this whole system, the a pillar/ windshield header. everything meets at this point so the adjustment begins there. The vent window frame has to meet the pillar correctly which depends on door adjustment as there is one dowel screw in the door that positions the vent window. the adjustment screws on that casting are not intended to adjust the vertical in out of the window that is door adjustment. The window level adjustment on the channel roller needs to level the window to seat properly in the front window channel and so on and so on. 

I am hoping that once I get the windows adjusted so they are level on the top and tight enough to get a good seal on the between window seal, door to quarter window that I can adjust the top to the windows. Again starting at the front as there are locating pins for the top to windshield header. Those brackets have a minimal amount of adjustment to center the front top bow on the windshield header. moving back from there it is the top bow over the side windows,

My only unknown is why the door windows have about a 1/4 inch bow on the top window frame and the top rail is dead flat.

I was doing this professionally between 59 and 79 and always did wonder about Pontiac engineers. The more I work on mine the more I am convinced that Pontiac engineering was smocking funny cigarettes. It was the 60's after all!!

No worry about location Kiwi we can still bag on the exes long distance. A little insight on mine, when she divorced me HER mother was on MY side.

The problem is that I have been doing just that. Yes the windows need to match but they also need to match the top. The main attaching point on the top mechanism is held on by three 3/8 bolts with huge washers. Those bolts go through three holes that are an inch square so the main pivot can move all over the place when loose. You try to adjust one thing and it throws everything else off. It moves up and down, fore and aft and also rotates which will move the whole top fore and aft. depending on orientation you can also move the front of the top side to side.

Before I did the windows I replaced the top weather-strips and they were slightly thicker than what came off so the drivers door did not want to open and close because the weather-strip was dragging on top of the window. the only way to raise the top rail was to loosen the three bolts. when I did that all hell broke loose and I have been fighting it since. There had to be a procedure on the assembly line, there is no way that it could have been haphazard on the line or they could not have made more than a few hundred drop tops. It had to be a procedure where you set something to a determined point and then adjusted all else in proper sequence. It was probably all detailed in the factory service manual but who has one? 

The Indian and I are barely on speaking terms. I am nearing the end of the second month of trying to replace all the convertible top and window seals and felt. This blasted thing is starting to remind me of my ex wife and that is about the worst thing I can say. 

I ordered a complete seal kit for top and windows from Kanter, they don't manufacture but they gather all the parts from the various sources and put together a complete kit. The window felts/seals that go into the body at the base of the windows finally came a few days ago. I had to remove the door window to install the outer seal, a total bitch which is what reminded me of whatshername. Spent the better part of the day doing the drivers door and now I can't get the blasted window adjustment right. I was working on this stuff before I had a drivers license and now I can't get the damn window adjustment right. It was fine before I took it out and now I can't get it right. 

The problem with this thing is that the top and windows all have to match and the new seals are just a little off from the originals so everything has to be readjusted. There are about 400 different adjustment points on the top and windows and it seems like you adjust one and it affects 12 others. 

Saturday I plan to strip the interior so I can get to all the adjustments at the same time. Sunday should tell the story of the possibility of it getting struck by lightning.

The good part is that I am replacing 60 year old weather-strips and if I do get it right It should hold together for as long as I need it. Beyond that it becomes someone elses problem.

Really neat looking flower stall but where is the engine and tires?

Don't know if you plan on doing the work yourself or having it done. If you are familiar with sheet metal ignore the rest of the reply. I have a Lincoln DC 250 power source with a LN7 wire feeder on it, right next to the tig welder. When I started the sheet metal work on mine I purchased an inexpensive mig from Harbor freight that will run an .025 wire. It works great on sheet metal as well as other things. Since I bought it I almost never use the Lincoln. It works a lot better than I ever expected it to. For whatever it might be worth.

For whatever it may be worth in the future to anyone that may follow this thread I actually found the adjustment. It is the main pivot point for the entire top mechanism. It is a pretty substantial casting that bolts to the body under the side trim piece just in front of the "S" bar behind the window. It bolts on with three 3/8 cap screws in holes about an inch square. It adjusts up and down and fore and aft. 

It is a bitchy thing to adjust because when you loosen the cap screws it moves around and is almost impossible to deal with as it is under several different forces. The weight of the top, the tension of the top fabric, the tension on all the different pieces of the top mechanism, the alignment of the stars, the phase of the moon etc. If there is a top installer out there somewhere that would like to take the time to go through the proper adjustment procedure it would help someone like us. 

There must be a proper procedure that was set up for the assembly line because the trial and error I have been going through would never work on a moving assembly line. I have had the side trim panels out at least a half dozen times. I think I have it and put it together and then find another problem Just finished adjusting the top pivots and mistakenly thinking I finally have it, I put it together and found that with the top up all the windows align but with the top down the right quarter window wants to lean in too far. So tomorrow the trim will come out again to tweak those adjustments. I also now have a small gap between the front weatherstrip and the middle as I readjusted the tension stop on the middle pivot so now need to loosen the middle and rear weatherstrip pieces and move about .080 to fix that.

Seriously If you decide to tackle this you are a braver man than I. I would unquestionably suggest having it done by someone that knows how it works because I replaced everything piece by piece and found out that everything needed to be readjusted and you adjust this and it affects that. And then that affects something else and on and on it goes.

Last Indian,

I "fixed" the problem sort of. I completely readjusted the window, moved the up stops so the window does not go up quite as far and adjusted the window tilt to get the rear as low as possible, I am at the limit of the slot. Then with a die grinder and a rotary file I massaged the weatherstrip. The door will now close with 0 clearance in the middle of the window. 

The thing I can't figure out is that the door glass has a hump in the upper window frame and the top rail is flat. I noticed it when I was carefully studying it. My first thought was that someone had reset the window in the frame incorrectly but both windows have the identical hump. I am positive that Pontiac engineers were smoking funny cigarettes in those years but I can't figure this one out.

The problem is only on the left so it may well be that there is wear on the pivots but everything works and I cut the road noise at freeway speeds by about 80% so call it good and go on with life. 

I threw out the old stuff so can't compare it with the new. I am not going to discount the possibility that the new rubber is a little different than the original. 

My suggestion to anyone that wants to replace the weatherstripping is take it to someone that knows it well and save yourself a lot of aggravation.  Remember me? I am the guy who stuffed an L83 and 6L80 into this thing and made all the brackets to put Wilwood disks on all corners and it took me a month to do the top and window weatherstripping.

The original weatherstripping went 60 years so if this lasts half that it will still outlast me.

I am right on the edge of parking the Indian in the front yard with the top down, filling it with planter mix and turning it into a flower pot. I put in all new top and window rubber and now I find that the top is sagging over the windows. OK it is 60 years old and my sagging started a lot younger. I cannot find any adjustment to pull it up. There is a jam screw to put downward tension on the hinge above the door window but I have backed that all the way out and  can push the top up to where it needs to be but I need upward tension on the mechanism. I only need about 3/16 inch and everything will work great. 

I considered taking the front piece out and putting it in the bench press but that seems a bit extreme.

If anyone has any suggestions I am open to anything otherwise I might have a new piece of yard art.

Frosty,

Just an FYI for whatever it is worth. Got all the hydraulic top stuff and interestingly enough the top cylinders ordered off of EBAY came from convertible top guys. Concerning fluid they state MOST 67 and newer use ATF. 62-66 could have used ATF or brake fluid, pre 62 almost always used brake fluid. Recommendation being if you are doing the whole system flush it and use ATF. 

As it turned out I was 99% certain that it used ATF because it was not water soluble. When I got the pump out it has a tag on it stating ATF. It finally dawned on me that in the early 60's trans fluid was the same color as motor oil. It wasn't till close to the mid 60's that they colored it to keep people from using it incorrectly, (bullet point one).

As it turned out there was no real reason to reseal the pump but it was probably worth it just to clean 60 years worth of sludge out of the bottom of the reservoir. 

All together and the top goes up and down. Probably take a while to bleed out all the air. Three times up and down and I can still see air in the lines.

6 hours ago, Frosty said:

Toxic genes from mom? LOL. 

Just noticed this, probably so everything else about her was toxic. When she died I was wandering around the house singing ding dong the witch is dead...........My sisters were scared to death that I was going to say something like that at the funeral. But I talked myself down and actually behaved.

If whoever does it is good at it they should be able to hit 20-20 dead on, and if you never heard of the bifocal option forget I ever mentioned it. I had mine done at Kaiser and the Kaiser Dr's don't do anything else. cataracts 8 hrs. a day 5 days a week, and they are damned good at it. 

I wore contacts for about 25 years before my surgery, I just got so damn tired of having my glasses moving all over my face trying to do anything that required a weird position, like under a dash.

Kiwi, I was apparently following one of your countrymen. His license plate read SORRYM8. It was on a Jag so my assumption is that it is a prepackaged apology for when the Jag quits running in the middle of an intersection

The cataracts are nothing, had both done. The only thing I would caution against is the bifocal replacement lenses. Everyone I know who has them wishes they didn't. I went with the regular lens and am 20-20 distant. I need reading glasses and my peripheral field has diminished by about 10% but I would do it again in a heartbeat. 

If you presently wear contacts and want to try the bifocal get some bifocal contacts and see if you can adjust to them. apparently around 90% of the population can't adjust to them.

Exactly. Right now I am looking at a complete overhaul of my right leg. Hip, knee and whatever else they can figure out once they are in there. My left shoulder is causing trouble but I am largely ignoring it. (better  living through drugs)

The thing I can't figure out is that my dad died at 98 with all of his original body parts intact. The day before he died he was still walking upright full stride no cane no walker. Wondering what the h... happened to me.

Frosty,

I knew that, I started this "second career" replacing the top seals and window rubber. I am two weeks into it and still ordering parts. I just needed someone to convince me of what I already knew. I plan on this being my last car and seeing me out to the end. It is after-all 60 years old and parts do wear out. But I am 78 and also in need of replacement parts. Quite frankly it will be easier to do it now than a year from now. 

I have been told many times that they are called the golden years because it takes so much gold to get through them! 

The only question is, is the trans fluid compatible with the original fluid or should I flush the whole system. I am replacing both rams, they have both been down the same roads all these years. Ebay has a pump rebuild/reseal kit for the pump. Wonder if I should do that while I am in there?

Frosty, a comment on your first bullet point. I was in an industrial part of town last Friday and there was a car stopped in the middle of the road. Traffic was going around it on both sides. I looked as I went by to see if possibly I could offer assistance and here is some 20 something lady parked in the middle of the road TALKING ON THE DAMN PHONE!

AAAAH a trip down memory lane. I never worked in a gas station, I grew up in my dads repair shop in the 50's and 60's and in his employ you did not replace you repaired. Can't count the number of starters and generators alternators and GM solenoids I rebuilt. I turned armatures replaced brushes etc. The Fords were a PITA because they soldered in their brushes, took a really big soldering iron to get the copper strap hot enough. 

What little oil I got on my fingers was not water soluble so I did not think it was brake fluid but the way my life has been going lately, I could not buy a break if I had Elon's check book. So I threw it out to others that probably knew for sure. As I stated my 56 Corvette did have brake fluid in the top pump and 56-----63 same era

They probably recommend trans fluid because it has better lubricity than jack oil. This is the first convertible hydraulics I have been into since the 70's except for a @$#$%&%^&(*$^#%^@ Mercedes SL and typical of the Krauts they need an exotic oil. A lot has changed.

Thanks so much for the info. 

Back when I was contracting there were "debt collectors" that could come in quite handy in situations like this but they are all either dead or doing time.