Is Dodge the new Pontiac?

[stratman]

Interesting article... I got to say that were I looking to buy a new car, I would probably stop by the Dodge dealer first.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150127/BLOG06/301289994/can-dodge-rebuild-pontiac-excitement

[Frosty]

I have to admit stratman, I have become a closet Mopar man in the absence of any new Pontiacs. The thing that upsets me most about GM is that anything with a performance V8 starts at around $45,000 and goes north from there. Let's face it, the Camaro SS, ZL-1, Z-28, any Corvette, or the Chevy SS all start at that price range and go up. The Cadillac CTS-V, same thing. A fully loaded Silverado, Tahoe, or Suburban again is also priced into the stratosphere. Frankly, in my opinion, GM marketing has once again missed the mark and certainly ignored the purpose (and pricing) of the pony cars of the 60s and 70s.

Now look at Dodge, a moderately equipped Charger or Challenger R/T with the 5.7 Hemi is under $40k (between $37-38 in the packages I've played with). So I see a ton of Chargers on the road, and not just in police trim. There are a lot of Chrysler 300s out there too, off the same platform. The SRT8 and Hellcat packages are just icing on the cake to keep up with the ZL-1/Z-28 packages.

I test drove several used 300s before I ended up with my '08 Envoy Denali. I even drove a used Challenger R/T, and used several Cadillac CTS too. I found myself liking the 300s and the Challenger especially. The Charger and the Challenger were rather indistinguishable interior wise. The Hemi was very responsive, braking was very good and the interiors were comfortable. I found the console and dash of the CTS very uncomfortable for my legs since it is V-shaped and it hit my right leg close to the knee. The 300 is very roomy on the inside.

So yes, I think GM should be worried that Dodge could very well draw former Pontiac customers away from GM based on price/value for a performance vehicle if they stay the course price wise on performance RWD cars like the Challenger R/T and Charger R/Ts and perhaps bring back something like the Magnum wagon.

[FuriousGXP]

I had my eye on a Charger before I learned about the existence of the G8 (I was in Germany from 05-11 so give me a break for being a bit behind on the domestic market...) I like muscular sedans and the Charger was one of the few cars that fit that bill and are feasible on my budget. Of course, once I learned of the G8 GXP, I quickly made that my affordable dream car and 2 years ago managed to find one. I still like the Chargers but I'd have to get at least an SRT-8 to make it worth buying one and that's only if I couldn't get another GXP.

[gandhi_2006]

I can fully agree with it. Dodge has made some pretty powerful tire shredders in the past and now with the hellcat. I am very impressed. But as long as there are arrow heads on the road we will remain the excitement. Hopefully gm will see that they are screwing up.

[JUSTA6]

Dodge is rightfully turning heads, but could never replace PONTIAC in the hearts of the FANatic's.

[gandhi_2006]

Absolutely right justa. But if gm won't help I'm definitely not going with ford. So I guess that just leave Subaru.

[Ringo64]

I have to admit stratman, I have become a closet Mopar man in the absence of any new Pontiacs. The thing that upsets me most about GM is that anything with a performance V8 starts at around $45,000 and goes north from there. Let's face it, the Camaro SS, ZL-1, Z-28, any Corvette, or the Chevy SS all start at that price range and go up. The Cadillac CTS-V, same thing. A fully loaded Silverado, Tahoe, or Suburban again is also priced into the stratosphere. Frankly, in my opinion, GM marketing has once again missed the mark and certainly ignored the purpose (and pricing) of the pony cars of the 60s and 70s.

Got my fully loaded 2SS/RS out the door for $35k but still I understand where you're going

[Frosty]

Got my fully loaded 2SS/RS out the door for $35k but still I understand where you're going

I hear you Ringo. I think you got into your Camaro fairly early in the 5th gen release, so the General did not have not time to "mature" or advance the MSRP, nor had the convertible, ZL-1 or Z-28, 1LE packages been released. I am happy that you were able to get it for that little coin too. It shows that deals are out there. Did you buy it new off the dealer lot or order it, or was it used?

Just going to Chevrolet.com right now and selecting a Camaro SS/RS coupe with no other selected options I am already at $39,650 (this is a 6.2L and manual tranny). Still way too much money because you know that is not what else this car is going to be built with. Furthermore, the Chevy SS base price shows as $48,040, a 2WD Tahoe LS base price is $47,240, and a 2WD Suburban LS base price is $49,445.

I just went to Dodge.com and priced out a Challenger with the R/T Plus model with the the 5.7 Hemi, automatic tranny, the Technolgy Group, the Driver Convenience Group, and Super Track Pack (which includes paddle shifters), and a R/T hood stripe is showing $37.670. If I select the Challenger with the basic R/T model and pick the same options, it prices out for $36,075.

So it is clear (to me at least) that Dodge is doing a lot of things right for new car buyers to make performance cars (more) affordable than the General right now. So if this appears to Pontiac enthusiasts in the future new car purchases, I think stratman's case is valid.

Gandi and JUSTA - I could not agree more about wanting to stay faithful to the arrowhead and the Tin Indians. That said, if you had to buy a new car today and it could be a performance car (and not a wife/soccer mom crossover/SUV), what would it be? The Corvette still remains the best supercar for the money to be sure, but it is a Chevy and it starts at $54,995.

I still love the GTO, the Firebird, the G8, the Solstice, etc. I will keep the faith as such. Still, I would at some point in time like to own a modern muscle car too. Dodge may be my choice.

[gandhi_2006]

Yeah I did the same thing on both sites and I built a charger for a hell of a lot less money and much more power. Plus I liked the options a lot from dodge.

[Sonicfan287]

I've heard this before and even thought about that before it was formally mentioned by articles and different outlets.

Discontinuing Pontiac always seemed like a short-term move by GM. That doesn't mean it will be short term but I feel like their thinking was short sighted. I'm sure they had their reasons but they neglected to do anything to fill the void left by discontinuing that brand. As mentioned, Chevy SS's and similar models go for much more than Pontiac models or comparable cars produced by other companies.

To add to it, it's not as though Dodge is a newcomer to the muscle car/sports car market.

I believe GM's move may have saved them some money initially, but unfortunately for them, if not Dodge, some other company will take those prospective Pontiac buyers who don't want to shell out over 40k for a Chevy/Cadillac or similar GM car. I know they've already lost me

[Ringo64]

The funny thing is that now that GM killed off it's "Excitement/Performance" division, Chevy and Caddy have been getting more "performance" vehicles. Not to say that the whole line is but definitely more than at time of Pontiac's nail in the coffin. Be interesting to see what GM does and I'm just happy we have the Camaro, Corvette, SS, CTS-V, ATS-V, etc.. cause I'm not driving no 4 cylinder, eco car.

[Professur]

Personally, I don't see anything at the Fiat dealership to interest me. Last time I checked, the charger was supposed to be a big engine in a smaller car. A guy here at work has a charger ... it's the same damn length and weight as my '85 Parisienne, and has the same number of doors. The new mustang and camaro are the same, but at least they got the number of doors right .... although ford has been muttering about adding a second pair for the last decade. Fer Christ's sake .. they all come with baby seat attachment points.

If I had to, I'd look at getting a nice LS? and drop that with an aftermarket computer into my parisienne and kick all their asses. It's not like they've any advantage in curb weight anymore. Hell ... how much lighter is an LS over my old 305? I'd probably come out lighter than them.

[Ringo64]

If I had to, I'd look at getting a nice LS? and drop that with an aftermarket computer into my parisienne and kick all their asses. It's not like they've any advantage in curb weight anymore. Hell ... how much lighter is an LS over my old 305? I'd probably come out lighter than them.

Challenge accepted . Get that LS dropped in your Parisienne and I'll see you in my Camaro

[Frosty]

I will be selling popcorn and beer at this event !!!! This is something I wanna' see !!!

[Ringo64]

BTW we're doing a road coarse

[Professur]

As soon as the 305 dies.

[havoc1482]

As soon as the 305 dies.

So.... never?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk

[Professur]

They are remarkably hard to kill if you give them the least bit of maintenance, but it is pretty long in the tooth.

[Ringo64]

I'll be here waiting

[Frosty]

A tribute to Pro's 305.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grbSQ6O6kbs

We can help you with that 305 problem you know. You can call notallthere, GE, or I anytime!!!

[Frosty]

Well Pro, it's been a year now. Is that 305 dead yet? You ready to move up to an LS motor of any sort and take on Ringo's challenge?

You know notallthere, GE, and I will help you rip that thing out the proper way. You might get a few Canuckistany Loonies for the scrap metal too.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Frosty

[Professur]

Actually, at the moment I'm up to my elbows in rebuilding the front end of my daughter's 2003 Sentra after an encounter with someone else's trailer hitch. Last year. But now it's priority.  Then I'll get back to the Parisienne.

 

But .... I might find myself distracted again. http://www.kijiji.ca/v-autos-autres/longueuil-rive-sud/dodge-rampage-1984/1167693999?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

Only made for 3 years, but the powertrain from any Shadow, Sundance, Spirit or Acclaim will drop right in. Only question is, is there any solid structure underneath, or is it just unibody?

[360Rocket]

Quote

 

 

Challenge accepted . Get that LS dropped in your Parisienne and I'll see you in my Camaro

On 5/19/2015 at 10:34 AM, Ringo64 said:

RINGO! Let me in on this bet, I'm local and one of those guys that shifted from one GM to another one.

 

Edited June 1, 2016 by 360Rocket

[Frosty]

I found the perfect vehicle for Pro. It has a V8. Ladder is included. All we need to do is change the flag. 

Edited August 25, 2016 by Frosty

[Professur]

Don't tease me