Frustrated

[Wrongway]

Will do Bear, thank you for all of that ⬆️ and again thank you all for everything! I'll keep y'all posted.

[64 kiwi boni]

10 hours ago, Last Indian said:

Yes the OEM duel plane is a great manifold! It’s what I would have used! And yes the carb you show is a spread bore as Bear said, but it’s not quite as simple as that! 
You pick a manifold for a specific set of engine perimeters and than a carb to enhance those! In that process you may want too take some advantage of some specific power band area because of gearing, transmission, etc. all of those things will influence what gasket and or spacer you use! These are choices you need to make, but if you pick this or that, mix and match so to speak this can cause you some real headaches later on! So I would just encourage you to step through this logically and not in a hurry! So when you’re done; you’re done!

And FYI, those butterfly things are throttle plates! And that’s what I was speaking of before. The back ones need set a specific way! Even from the factory they are not always set correctly for a specific setup!
 

Wrong way, i am with Last Indian on this one, its a recipe 

 that pic of a square bore spacer and gaskets is not your set up, last indian will give you the plus's and minus about a inch spacer.

 my though is dont use a spacer, think old school Q jet and have a full gasket that separates the primarys from the secondarys

  Its the best set up for street use dual plans rock for street 

you have lots going on and just take your time and sort each issue , stop... back.... up have a beer and then move to the next step 

 Other wise it turns into a mind f-uck and some people just stuff it up big time, your a thinker so just go old school and plod it out bud 👍

Edited June 26, 2020 by 64 kiwi boni

[Wrongway]

Thanks Kiwi, On the old ford FE engines I had a number of old timers tell me to run the spacer for better fuel atomization. Never had any problems. On my impala I didn't use a spacer, and never had a problem. Since it was on there & I didn't know if I should use it or not I put it back on. Maybe I need to remove it. Or maybe I just need to add a couple of beers to my recipe lol. One thing I am sure of, listening to you guys I'm sure glad I kept that intake. lol

[BearGFR]

I should have also included in my last message, what made me suspicious of ignition was the combination of that bouncing vacuum gauge needle, the rough idle,  and the ticking sound I think I'm hearing.  Having an intermittent misfire condition (caused by a plug not firing consistently, due to a bad wire, arcing, etc.) is one of the primary causes of both low vacuum and a bounding gauge reading.  It's not the only possible cause, but it's one of the easier things to check for and deal with.   An idle mixture that's extremely lean OR extremely rich - enough in either direction to cause a misfire - can cause the same kind of gauge reading, but it's not going to cause an audible 'tick' along with it.   BUT - you're there and I'm not, so like I said earlier - maybe I'm hearing something in the recordings that isn't really there?

Oh, and this very timely link showed up in my in-box today.  You might find it helpful.

Valve lash adjustment

Edited June 26, 2020 by BearGFR

[Last Indian]

8 hours ago, Wrongway said:

Thanks Kiwi, On the old ford FE engines I had a number of old timers tell me to run the spacer for better fuel atomization. Never had any problems. On my impala I didn't use a spacer, and never had a problem. Since it was on there & I didn't know if I should use it or not I put it back on. Maybe I need to remove it. Or maybe I just need to add a couple of beers to my recipe lol. One thing I am sure of, listening to you guys I'm sure glad I kept that intake. lol

Wrongway, at this point what Bear said is similar to what I said! Take a step back, breath and then start going through it again from the beginning. I don’t recall if Bear gave an order to start in, but just presume that something has been missed, but you don’t know what! 
Since you say it’s not going to be a daily drive, you have time! So start with the valve lash! Back them all out and start over and set them all! Next, if you have the new distributor by then, pull the old one out! Bring #1 up on compression stroke TDC and drop in the new or the old whichever, aligning the rotor where you what it for #1, rotate the housing in the direction that you what it to fire the spark, (initial advance) and lock it down! Cap off any vac to the distributor, now you are sit to fire the engine, but not before you done some initial adjustments to the current carb. On the air fuel idle adjustment screws. Turn them all the way in. Then back each one out 3 full turns, this will be close enough for an initial start. Also on the back throttle shaft, refer to the modified picture I posted. There  should be a very small screw on one side or the other that’s part of the linkage! This is an adjustment for the back throttle plates. That screw should be adjusted so there is a crack of daylight between the plates and the side walls of the Venturi bore. Not a lot, but enough that they don’t touch the wall. Start the engine and follow the rest of the thing Bear said, fuel pressure, resetting the carb while running, timing, vac, etc.

Good luck buddy!

Edited June 26, 2020 by Last Indian

[Wrongway]

Bear I agree. I have hear a tick also. But I was told that it "was just the sound those old fans made". Yes, seriously. So I'm glad to know it wasn't just me and thanks for the link.

Ok so tracking # show's the new distributor should be here today. I'll start by running the valve lash. Put in new distributor and check back throttle plate. Reset air/fuel screws, when I use the vacuum gauge to dial in the carb which port on the carb wound be best? Do you think I should keep the 1" spacer with the new carb? Thanks again for the detailed instructions on setting the timing and valves. I WILL follow them to a T! lol.

[Last Indian]

1 hour ago, Wrongway said:

Bear I agree. I have hear a tick also. But I was told that it "was just the sound those old fans made". Yes, seriously. So I'm glad to know it wasn't just me and thanks for the link.

Ok so tracking # show's the new distributor should be here today. I'll start by running the valve lash. Put in new distributor and check back throttle plate. Reset air/fuel screws, when I use the vacuum gauge to dial in the carb which port on the carb wound be best? Do you think I should keep the 1" spacer with the new carb? Thanks again for the detailed instructions on setting the timing and valves. I WILL follow them to a T! lol.

The spacer plate is fine, if that’s what you want, but what’s important is that you have the correct gasket that mate the spacer with the manifold, that you have the correct gasket that mates the carb to the spacer & that you have the correct spacer material! Those are all relative to what you are trying to do! Example a 1” - 2” spacer is used often to increase low end torque & help with fuel atomization! A fiber composite material spacer is used to deal with heat that can cause fuel percolating, and so on.

the front cap you show in this picture should be manifold vacuum!

 

[BearGFR]

3 hours ago, Wrongway said:

Bear I agree. I have hear a tick also. But I was told that it "was just the sound those old fans made". Yes, seriously. So I'm glad to know it wasn't just me and thanks for the link.

Ok so tracking # show's the new distributor should be here today. I'll start by running the valve lash. Put in new distributor and check back throttle plate. Reset air/fuel screws, when I use the vacuum gauge to dial in the carb which port on the carb wound be best? Do you think I should keep the 1" spacer with the new carb? Thanks again for the detailed instructions on setting the timing and valves. I WILL follow them to a T! lol.

Spacer, no spacer --- will have no effect on your issues >>as long as it's not leaking above or below<<.   Use unported manifold vacuum for setting idle mixture.  The ported source is intended for use with the distributor vacuum advance, but whether or not you "should" use it for that tends to be one of those internet "Hatfields vs. McCoys" arguments.  Personally, my position is to try it both ways and run whatever your engine likes.   Again though, that's not going to be the cause of your problems.   The purpose of the vacuum advance is to help improve fuel economy and engine cooling when it's lightly loaded (like during cruise on level ground, or coasting downhill).  It's not for performance - that's all handled by the mechanical portion of the advance mechanism.  When you've got your big toe hung over into the carburetor at wide open throttle, the engine makes very little vacuum in that condition.   Which is why you always disconnect the vacuum advance when you're setting timing.  You're simulating the amount of vacuum the engine is going to "see" at wide open throttle, which would otherwise be pretty tough to do while sitting in neutral in your driveway....

The spacer is a performance thing.  Having the extra volume in the plenum tends to clean up the flow and help with distribution to equalize cylinders and make a little more power.  It won't be enough for you to feel in the seat, but it might show up on a good set of clocks at the track. 

That fluctuating vacuum gauge needle -- is almost certainly being caused by cylinder(s) that aren't firing efficiently (or at all - sometimes) which is also why it's shaking so much at idle.  When a cylinder fires the pressure inside goes WAY up - that's what makes the power and pushes the piston down, and it's also what starts the flow out of the exhaust valve when it opens.  That high velocity outbound flow also helps to "pull" in the next intake charge when the intake opens during the overlap period (when the intake and exhaust valves are both partially open).  That's called the scavenging effect.  If a cylinder doesn't fire, or doesn't make good compression, then all those things don't happen much - or at all - and that cylinder isn't going to flow very well, isn't going to pump very well, isn't going to generate much power, or much vacuum ----- which is what you're seeing when that needle flutters.   It's relying on rotational inertia to pull itself "through" the dead spot.

 

Which just gave me another idea for something you might try.   Run the engine with one spark plug wire completely disconnected - pulled off its plug.  Do one at a time.   If your problem is ignition, you might find one that doesn't seem to make much difference in how it runs, or maybe no difference at all.  If you find one like that, then that's a big clue that there's a problem in that cylinder, or that plug, or that wire, or that distributor cap contact... something in that path.   

Edited June 26, 2020 by BearGFR

[Wrongway]

Ok thanks guys. Something I’m still confused about on the vacuum though. The hose in the picture is going to my 1963 vacuum gauge in the console. I connected a T where the connection is and connected 2’ of hose to the hand held gauge. You seen the needle was all over the place. BUT the 63’ gauge was steady as a rock. It moved at throttle or when I made a change but that’s it. So why when both gauges are hooked up at the same time is one all over and one is steady? 
I reran all of the valves again today. Bear, I had your instructions out and did as you said. It really was a lot easier that way bro.  I did check the back throttle plate and I made no adjustments to it. It was open just a tad. Maybe a little too much but I really wasn’t sure. I installed the new distributor and she started up. I let her run about 10min and made sure she was up to temp. I had a buddy run the RPMs up to 2500. Using my timing light I set the timing to 35. He took his foot off the gas and it almost died. I idled it up to about 900. She wouldn’t hold at 800. As soon as I backed up she revved her self up to 1900- 1950RPMs. I confirmed this on my timing light. It has a digital RPM button. I turned the idle back down. She tried dying. As soon as I got her back up to 900- 1000 RPMs she revved up again. I guessed it was the carb but I don’t know. When I brought the timing back down to 43 degrees at idle she ran fine, kinda. The RPMs stopped revving. BUT, I had him rev up to 2500 to see where we were at and it showed timing to be 70.8 @ 2500RPMs. So did I majorly screw something up? Do something wrong? Or just redo it when the new carb gets here? Have you guys ever seen/heard of that happening before? I shut car off. Made sure it would restart. Then shut it off and called it a night. Stepped back like y’all keep telling me to do lol. 
 

BTW, at 2500 RPMs my buddy said I had 12 on the console vacuum gauge. Good or bad that’s the highest I’ve ever seen in this car. 

[Last Indian]

9 hours ago, Wrongway said:

Ok thanks guys. Something I’m still confused about on the vacuum though. The hose in the picture is going to my 1963 vacuum gauge in the console. I connected a T where the connection is and connected 2’ of hose to the hand held gauge. You seen the needle was all over the place. BUT the 63’ gauge was steady as a rock. It moved at throttle or when I made a change but that’s it. So why when both gauges are hooked up at the same time is one all over and one is steady? 
I reran all of the valves again today. Bear, I had your instructions out and did as you said. It really was a lot easier that way bro.  I did check the back throttle plate and I made no adjustments to it. It was open just a tad. Maybe a little too much but I really wasn’t sure. I installed the new distributor and she started up. I let her run about 10min and made sure she was up to temp. I had a buddy run the RPMs up to 2500. Using my timing light I set the timing to 35. He took his foot off the gas and it almost died. I idled it up to about 900. She wouldn’t hold at 800. As soon as I backed up she revved her self up to 1900- 1950RPMs. I confirmed this on my timing light. It has a digital RPM button. I turned the idle back down. She tried dying. As soon as I got her back up to 900- 1000 RPMs she revved up again. I guessed it was the carb but I don’t know. When I brought the timing back down to 43 degrees at idle she ran fine, kinda. The RPMs stopped revving. BUT, I had him rev up to 2500 to see where we were at and it showed timing to be 70.8 @ 2500RPMs. So did I majorly screw something up? Do something wrong? Or just redo it when the new carb gets here? Have you guys ever seen/heard of that happening before? I shut car off. Made sure it would restart. Then shut it off and called it a night. Stepped back like y’all keep telling me to do lol. 
 

BTW, at 2500 RPMs my buddy said I had 12 on the console vacuum gauge. Good or bad that’s the highest I’ve ever seen in this car. 

Ok! At this point this is the proverbial dog chasing his tail! We need to eliminate the obvious things that need answered before continuing to try and solve the mystery! 
You need to do a compression check & a leak down test! Once that is either ruled out or in trying to solve the mystery may get easier! 
Also the gage issue between the hand held one and the car may be nothing more the the car gage is dampened! This is common in car gages as a bouncing needle is hard to read when driving!

Edited June 27, 2020 by Last Indian

[Wrongway]

Ok, I've got a compression gauge. I'll have to get a leak down gauge this week. It may be a couple of days, its supposed to be raining here all week. I'll report back my findings

[Last Indian]

49 minutes ago, Wrongway said:

Ok, I've got a compression gauge. I'll have to get a leak down gauge this week. It may be a couple of days, its supposed to be raining here all week. I'll report back my findings

One last thing! I know JustA asked you, but I’ll ask again and expound on it! Do you have the distributor & the engine wired right? Looking at the top of the distributor going counterclockwise. It 18436572 for firing order & siting ing the drivers set, #1 cylinder is the first cylinder on the left at the front of the engine.

I have seen more than one veteran mechanic get this wrong just because they were preoccupied with a problem! Just double check it! I’ve seen guys flip flop 5 & 7!

[Wrongway]

Pretty sure bro. As simple as this is going to sound. I always pull out the book and set it on the front end. With this picture open, standing in front facing the windshield. I run all of the drivers (1-3-5-7) side then the passenger side (2-4-6-8). I double check each wire before putting it on the cap. I’m pretty OCD about that. I to have seen people wire the cap wrong. The distributor position is, the vacuum advance is on the drivers side and the HEI plug is on the passenger side. I will double check the wiring again. If there’s anything wrong with any of how I just explained that please let me know bro. 

[BearGFR]

Whoa Nelly!  You said that to make it run half-way decent, you have to...

Quote

"When I brought the timing back down to 43 degrees at idle she ran fine, kinda. The RPMs stopped revving. BUT, I had him rev up to 2500 to see where we were at and it showed timing to be 70.8 @ 2500RPMs."   

"DOWN" to 43 degrees at idle?????   DOWN???  Over 70 degrees at 2500 is where it seems happiest?  

Great Googa-Mooga man, that's a TON of timing!  I'm surprised it will run at all with that much in it.   There's definitely something floating in the milk that ain't cream here...  It ought to be trying to run backwards with that much advance.    The most I've ever heard of a Pontiac 'liking' was 43-45 total mechanical at 2500 rpm, and that was with closed chamber 1967 casting number 670 heads that flow well but have pretty crummy combustion efficiency with respect to how the flame pattern propagates, so it takes a long time to get the fire completely lit.   

I think I'm going to have a bruise on my chin from where my jaw hit the floor...

If you're positive those numbers are right, then here's something to look at:  Pull the driver side rocker cover, turn the engine over slowly by hand until it's approaching but hasn't yet reached TDC on the EXHAUST  (not compression) stroke.  That exhaust valve should not be closing completely until >after< you pass TDC, and the intake valve should be beginning to open >before< you get to TDC.    If the intake is opening "late" (after TDC exhaust stroke) or the exhaust is closing "early"  (before TDC exhaust stroke) then it's likely that your timing set was installed wrong.   It may be a tooth off, or if it's one of those sets that has multiple marks and multiple keyways to allow advancing or retarding the cam, it may not have been installed using the right "pairing" of cam gear mark and crank gear keyway.  If it's off, that'd sure explain a lot of what you're seeing.   I kinda hesitate to mention that because there are "old wives tales" all over the internet about cam timing being "off a tooth", people trying to blame all kinds of things on it with it almost never actually happening, but DANG son!   That engine shouldn't need anywhere near that much timing to be happy. 

[Wrongway]

Sorry about your chin bro lol. But yes I'm positive about those numbers. When I started the car to warm up to temp before doing anything I checked the timing. I even wrote it on my wall the last time I set it so I could repeat it. At 0 on the marker tab by the balancer she's at 43 degrees. That's where she starts up the best. Just a bump of the switch. Since you said to set it at 2500RPMs I went ahead and ran it up just to see where it would be. At 2500RPMs she showed 70.8 degree. I've never heard or seen anything like it. We ran it up to 2500 RPMs 3 times to double check it. That's also where the timing was set in those 1st videos I sent you guys of my engine running. I would be happy to send a video of that before I make anymore changes if you want to see it. Also I did double check the plug wires and they are where they are supposed to be. Due to rain that was all I could do today. The new carb came in today also. I'll wait until after I do the compression, leak down test and check the valves as you said to before install it. I've got a video of the back throttle plates to see what Indian has to say. I'll post a pic from all sides. If there's anything on it y'all think I should do or change before I put it on just let me know.

[Wrongway]

[64 kiwi boni]

9 hours ago, BearGFR said:

Whoa Nelly!  You said that to make it run half-way decent, you have to...

"DOWN" to 43 degrees at idle?????   DOWN???  Over 70 degrees at 2500 is where it seems happiest?  

Great Googa-Mooga man, that's a TON of timing!  I'm surprised it will run at all with that much in it.   There's definitely something floating in the milk that ain't cream here...  It ought to be trying to run backwards with that much advance.    The most I've ever heard of a Pontiac 'liking' was 43-45 total mechanical at 2500 rpm, and that was with closed chamber 1967 casting number 670 heads that flow well but have pretty crummy combustion efficiency with respect to how the flame pattern propagates, so it takes a long time to get the fire completely lit.   

I think I'm going to have a bruise on my chin from where my jaw hit the floor...

If you're positive those numbers are right, then here's something to look at:  Pull the driver side rocker cover, turn the engine over slowly by hand until it's approaching but hasn't yet reached TDC on the EXHAUST  (not compression) stroke.  That exhaust valve should not be closing completely until >after< you pass TDC, and the intake valve should be beginning to open >before< you get to TDC.    If the intake is opening "late" (after TDC exhaust stroke) or the exhaust is closing "early"  (before TDC exhaust stroke) then it's likely that your timing set was installed wrong.   It may be a tooth off, or if it's one of those sets that has multiple marks and multiple keyways to allow advancing or retarding the cam, it may not have been installed using the right "pairing" of cam gear mark and crank gear keyway.  If it's off, that'd sure explain a lot of what you're seeing.   I kinda hesitate to mention that because there are "old wives tales" all over the internet about cam timing being "off a tooth", people trying to blame all kinds of things on it with it almost never actually happening, but DANG son!   That engine shouldn't need anywhere near that much timing to be happy. 

i am with Bear here wrong way!!! oh my god!, i was always told 36 was the sweet spot MAX or you start breaking stuff

i think you need to go back to basics and even check your timing wheel is correct!, 

[Wrongway]

Yeah bro, wish that I had taken that video. I may take one before I start doing anything else to it. If y’all think it would be safe to?  Bear mentioned being a tooth off on the timing chain. I was wondering about that a couple of days ago, before I got out my light but didn’t figure that it would start up as easy as it was. Maybe I just need to pull the gears and chain and reset everything to 0?

[BearGFR]

5 hours ago, Wrongway said:

Yeah bro, wish that I had taken that video. I may take one before I start doing anything else to it. If y’all think it would be safe to?  Bear mentioned being a tooth off on the timing chain. I was wondering about that a couple of days ago, before I got out my light but didn’t figure that it would start up as easy as it was. Maybe I just need to pull the gears and chain and reset everything to 0?

 

I'd recommend doing that visual valve timing check I described before you do anything else.  You're looking for either exhaust closing before exhaust tdc, or intake opening after exhaust tdc.  If you find either one of those going on, then it's time to pull the timing cover and check it.  Perchance does it have one of those timing sets with multiple crank keyways and marks?

Seriously - I'm surprised it'll even start at all with that much timing in it.  If things were "right", that would create so much cylinder pressure before tdc that the starter wouldn't be able to overcome it and keep turning it over.   That makes me wonder if the cam isn't extremely advanced - and you're likely to see those exhaust valves closing before tdc on the exhaust stroke.

[JUSTA6]

9 hours ago, Wrongway said:

Sorry about your chin bro lol. But yes I'm positive about those numbers. When I started the car to warm up to temp before doing anything I checked the timing. I even wrote it on my wall the last time I set it so I could repeat it. At 0 on the marker tab by the balancer she's at 43 degrees. That's where she starts up the best. Just a bump of the switch. Since you said to set it at 2500RPMs I went ahead and ran it up just to see where it would be. At 2500RPMs she showed 70.8 degree. I've never heard or seen anything like it. We ran it up to 2500 RPMs 3 times to double check it. That's also where the timing was set in those 1st videos I sent you guys of my engine running. I would be happy to send a video of that before I make anymore changes if you want to see it. Also I did double check the plug wires and they are where they are supposed to be. Due to rain that was all I could do today. The new carb came in today also. I'll wait until after I do the compression, leak down test and check the valves as you said to before install it. I've got a video of the back throttle plates to see what Indian has to say. I'll post a pic from all sides. If there's anything on it y'all think I should do or change before I put it on just let me know.

It's very common for your 60 year old harmonic balancer to be off due to slippage and the old rubber.  But doesn't rule out timing gear/chain probs. Too much slack will alter timing and may not have jumped a tooth.

[BearGFR]

24 minutes ago, JUSTA6 said:

It's very common for your 60 year old harmonic balancer to be off due to slippage and the old rubber.  But doesn't rule out timing gear/chain probs. Too much slack will alter timing and may not have jumped a tooth.

Very true about the possibility of the balancer slipping.  I've also personally seen brand new, out of the box, SFI-rated balancers be off as much as 6 degrees.  Thanks for reminding me about that.

Wrongway, it'd also be a good idea to verify that TDC indicated on  your balancer is actually engine TDC.   There's a way to do that using a piston stop threaded into either #1 or #6 spark plug hole,  but you >must< remember to back off and remove the rocker arms on that cylinder before you do it, otherwise you'll run the risk of bending a valve because one of them might hit the piston stop during the process.  (Ask me how I know that...  :ugh:)

Procedure:

• Remove the plug on either #1 or #6
• Turn the engine over so that you're sure the piston on that cylinder is well away from TDC.
• Remover the rocker cover, and back off the rocker arms on that cylinder enough to remove the pushrods (keep them in order so you can later reinstall them into the same spots)
• Screw piston stop into the spark plug hole.
• Turn the engine over by hand - slowly and carefully(!) - in the same direction as when it's running, until you feel the piston contact the stop.
• Make a mark on the balancer that lines up with TDC on the timing cover.
• Turn the engine 'backwards' in the reverse direction until you again feel the piston touching the stop.
• Make another mark on the balancer where it lines up with the TDC pointer.
• Exactly half-way between those two marks is where engine TDC really is - that SHOULD coincide with the TDC line on the balancer.  If it does not, then you know the balancer ring has slipped.  It's now bad and not reusable, and must be replaced.
• When you install the new one, go through the process again to make sure it's marked correctly, then remove the stop, reinstall the pushrods/rockers, readjust the lash on that cylinder, reinstall the plug, etc.

We're still in "assume nothing, check everything" territory.

You can make your own piston stop out of an old spark plug and an appropriately sized length of "all thread" rod.  Knock the center out of the plug so that all you have left is the outer metal collar, use a tap and cut threads into the center of it to match the all thread, thread a piece of it into the plug collar so that it sticks out the bottom "an inch or so" - far enough so that the piston will contact it when it's getting close to TDC. 

Bear

 

 

[Wrongway]

Yes sir we are. I’ll add that to the list of tests for when the rain stops. I see a lot of videos in y’all’s future lol.

Also, with all the talk of carb gaskets and right and wrong set ups I came across something interesting in the deep rock book. It shows my spacer and say DO NOT USE THIS TYPE. Says it will cause a vacuum leak. I did spray the base with ether and had no change. But I still found that interesting being that’s one issue we’ve been chasing. 

[JUSTA6]

4 hours ago, BearGFR said:

Very true about the possibility of the balancer slipping.  I've also personally seen brand new, out of the box, SFI-rated balancers be off as much as 6 degrees.  Thanks for reminding me about that.

Wrongway, it'd also be a good idea to verify that TDC indicated on  your balancer is actually engine TDC.   There's a way to do that using a piston stop threaded into either #1 or #6 spark plug hole,  but you >must< remember to back off and remove the rocker arms on that cylinder before you do it, otherwise you'll run the risk of bending a valve because one of them might hit the piston stop during the process.  (Ask me how I know that...  :ugh:)

Procedure:

• Remove the plug on either #1 or #6
• Turn the engine over so that you're sure the piston on that cylinder is well away from TDC.
• Remover the rocker cover, and back off the rocker arms on that cylinder enough to remove the pushrods (keep them in order so you can later reinstall them into the same spots)
• Screw piston stop into the spark plug hole.
• Turn the engine over by hand - slowly and carefully(!) - in the same direction as when it's running, until you feel the piston contact the stop.
• Make a mark on the balancer that lines up with TDC on the timing cover.
• Turn the engine 'backwards' in the reverse direction until you again feel the piston touching the stop.
• Make another mark on the balancer where it lines up with the TDC pointer.
• Exactly half-way between those two marks is where engine TDC really is - that SHOULD coincide with the TDC line on the balancer.  If it does not, then you know the balancer ring has slipped.  It's now bad and not reusable, and must be replaced.
• When you install the new one, go through the process again to make sure it's marked correctly, then remove the stop, reinstall the pushrods/rockers, readjust the lash on that cylinder, reinstall the plug, etc.

We're still in "assume nothing, check everything" territory.

You can make your own piston stop out of an old spark plug and an appropriately sized length of "all thread" rod.  Knock the center out of the plug so that all you have left is the outer metal collar, use a tap and cut threads into the center of it to match the all thread, thread a piece of it into the plug collar so that it sticks out the bottom "an inch or so" - far enough so that the piston will contact it when it's getting close to TDC. 

Bear

 

 

Much easier way, JUSTA  pull #1 plug and dist cap.  Turn over by hand til rotor is just before coming up to #1 in counterclockwise rotation, Insert a pencil in #1 plug hole and continue turning engine by hand  to Top Dead Center. (when pencil stops its outward movement.) Adjust back/forth as needed. Now check balancer and pointer.  If not at 0  make a thin white line with a grease pencil, paint ect to your balancer = new 0 mark. This gives you the info on your balancer. A piece of tape over your degree marks and rub with a pencil.  this gives you a temp degree marks, match 0 to 0 and your  at least in the ballpark for adjustment.  The open carb gasket is wrong, ya need a 4 holer to match intake. This will affect vacume.  Have you driven the car???  Hows the brakes?  That much vacume loss with no noise or rev when sprayed with start fluild.  Leads me back again to the brake booster.  Asked if you sprayed the booster hose connection with start fluid, but pedal alone would tell the story on the booster diaphragm.  I don't claim to know it all, but this is what I'd be checkin if it was mine.  

Edited June 28, 2020 by JUSTA6

[Last Indian]

All the information the guys are giving is great! But, once again I think you need to take a breath! 
I don’t think any of us know where this motor is at! Like everyone else I considered the timing chain/gears setup, but not being there has its own set of restrictions! So I think you must go to the beginning as much as you can and start over! For now forget the carb! ( I see what you said about the base plate! Basically what I was saying, but with the right gaskets you can run one, but I don’t know if you can get the right gaskets.)

The guys have told you what to do for checking the valve timing, that’s a good deal! My 2 cents worth is, do it by hand. Remove all the plugs. Get a breaker bar or long handled 1/2” ratchet and socket to fit the crank pulley bolt, roll the motor over that way. With the drivers valve cover off, put a dial indicator on the intake rocker arm at the valve. Using JustA’s method bring #1 to TDC with watching the indicator on the intake valve. If it opens and close before the pencil reaches TDC, slowly rotate the crank pulley more while looking at where the TDC mark on the harmonic is. When the pencil reaches the top, stop, see where the harmonic is. If this proves that the timing is ok, but I have my doubts! Do the compression test! 
When those are done, let us know the results.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Last Indian

[BearGFR]

19 hours ago, Wrongway said:

Yes sir we are. I’ll add that to the list of tests for when the rain stops. I see a lot of videos in y’all’s future lol.

Also, with all the talk of carb gaskets and right and wrong set ups I came across something interesting in the deep rock book. It shows my spacer and say DO NOT USE THIS TYPE. Says it will cause a vacuum leak. I did spray the base with ether and had no change. But I still found that interesting being that’s one issue we’ve been chasing.

Interesting!   When you posted the photo of the bottom of your carb, it's obviously a spread bore but perhaps the pattern and placement of the throttles in the base plate is different from a QJet.   It'd be worth measuring them to see if they match up to the same measurements on a QJet.   Do you happen to have a Pontiac QJet laying around?  I've got several if you don't.

(A Pontiac QJet will have the fuel inlet fitting coming in straight from the front, while a chebby one will have it coming in from the side - but the throttle bore dimensions on both will be the same.)

Measure:

• The diameter of both primary and secondary bores.
• "Center to center" distance between the two primaries, the two secondaries, and primary to secondary.

Also earlier you asked why the factory vacuum gauge needle doesn't 'bounce' like your new one does.    The most likely explanation is because that factory gauge movement is damped -- intentionally designed to not react instantly, so that what it shows you is actually an average reading.   I bet that the midpoint of the fluctuating readings you see on you new gauge (half way between the high and the low end of the sweep) corresponds to the reading you see on the factory gauge.