Frustrated

[Wrongway]

Ok that makes sense. I am running an after market distributor also. I'm getting ready to go play with her. I'll let you know how it goes. 

[Wrongway]

Ok, so hopefully I explain this right lol. So last night at 900rpm I was at 10.2 degrees of timing. (timing mark pointed at the 0 on the pointer.) I checked it this morning before any adjustments were made. At 2500rpm that gave me a total of about 22 degrees. Yesterday I advanced it as far as it would let me and still be easy to start (10.2). I did go farther but she either wouldn't start or she was hard to start. All that was with the distributor vacuum still hooked up to the carb. After that (since I'm by my self right now) I idled the car up to 2500rmp using the idle screw on the carb and capped of the distributor port at the carb. I then advanced the timing to 35. Backed the carb down. Gave it a couple of min and turned it back up to 2500rpm and double checked the advance. After turning it back down to 900rpm I checked the timing there. Its now at 23 degree's at 900rpm and 14-15in on the gauges and really hard starting. I know I'll need to pull timing out but should I go back to the 22 degree at 2500rpm or??? As always I've included videos lol. 

[Wrongway]

BTW, the distributor I'm using is a Pertronix D1202. Not sure if that helps or even matters but I do try to give you as much info as I can.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/distributors?fr=part-type&SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=pertronix d1202

[BearGFR]

Okay, I'm just shooting from the hip here because I'm in the car and on the way home from gallbladder surgery. Never and I do mean never adjust timing with the vacuum connected. That invalidates everything.  I'm not familiar with that distributor and I can't really go look it up bouncing along the road here in the car, but I'm hoping that it has a means for adjusting the amount of total travel it has in it. It sounds like you need more.  Also, did we ever validate that when your balancer indicates top dead center that it's not lying to you? That can be important.

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by BearGFR

[BearGFR]

Okay I'm home now. I went out to the website and found documentation on your distributor. The link is here.

https://pertronixbrands.com/products/pertronix-d1202-flame-thrower-distributor-hei-pontiac-301-455-blue-cap

If I'm reading the documentation correctly that distributor has a maximum of 24° mechanical advance but it comes in a relatively high RPM even with the lightest springs on it.

Just as a starting point and to see how it acts, I'd put the lightest copper springs on it and set your initial timing to 10° and see if it likes that. Of course that's setting it with the vacuum hose disconnected and plugged.

[Wrongway]

Ok bro. I'll have to see if I have a set. Not sure it came with the adjustment springs and if it did I'm not sure where they went since I installed. Worst case I'll order a set tomorrow If I cant find them. Sorry to hear about your gallbladder surgery. Hope your not in to much pain bro.

[Wrongway]

I called summit and got the part number for the springs. After looking them up I know that I don't have a set. So I've got a set on the way bud. I will let you know when I get them installed. Thanks bro, feel better.

[Wrongway]

Got the springs in today! I'll get them installed in the next day or so weather permitting. 

[Wrongway]

Ok so I changed out the springs. I set it at 10 degrees of initial timing after letting her warm up. The put the copper (lightest) springs in. Hooked up the timing light and the screen went black. Switched to RPMs and it showed 930. When I hit the throttle the screen went to 000 then went blank. I played with the connections and it didn't do any good. The timing light is dead. BUT, the good news (I think), When we started all of this I had no power. Couldn't even do a break torque or spin the tires at all! So I backed her up to get my buddy's bike out and pull in another bike I'm getting ready to paint. When pulling the car back up, I barely tapped the gas and she spun the tires!. Wasn't trying to spin them but she did! So in my head that's a good thing right? Guessing that I need to replace my timing light and double check that I'm all in by 2500RPM still? Any opinion on this timing light, "Innova Digital Timing Light 3568"?

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Wrongway

[BearGFR]

Awesome!

 

[64 kiwi boni]

sweet mate, your getting way closer

 sorry cant help on timing lights, i think i have had about 4 over the years and they all died!🙄

Edited December 9, 2020 by 64 kiwi boni

[Wrongway]

Yeah guys I think we are. I called to see if the timing light was still under warranty. They said it had a 1yr warranty and that I bought it February 2019. So no luck lol. Maybe I'll find one hanging in the ol Christmas sock! 

[Frosty]

Yeah, I can't help you Wrongway. My timing gun is just that, it dates back to the early 70s. It's a Craftsman. It was originally my dad's. Still works.

[BearGFR]

That Innova light is decent.  The one I have is an Actron, I think, but it works the same way.

 

Bear

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by BearGFR

[JUSTA6]

Have my old Craftsman from the 70's.

[64 kiwi boni]

I think wrongway should suck up to his mrs and he might get lucky

[Wrongway]

Yeah just another example of how the older tools were built to last and the new tools are mostly disposable. Yup, been doing just that kiwi lol.

[Frosty]

Let's us know if you get permission to spend money for a new timing gun or "get lucky" then!

[Wrongway]

Ok, so I'm confused as *&%# right now and more then a little bit irritated. So please educate me guys. Last night I was given a new timing light by my better half (trust me she really is). Awesome, I can finally finish I'm thinking. So today I go out and start my girl up, let her warm up. Hook up the new timing light. Set advance to 10 degrees. The light didn't come on. The RPMS didn't read. I played with the connections, every now and then the light would flicker or the RPMs would light up but they were wayyyyyy off. The idle is set about 950 the gun showed 186 then 254 and once 456. So thinking its got a short but not wanting to look like an idiot for not doing something "right" when I exchange it I decide to call tech support. So please tell me if this is BS. After going over my issues and my engine set up I was told that the gun I have will not read my ignition. What do you mean I ask. We only sell one gun that will read your ignition and it has the Snap On label on it. Your ignition is putting out too much power. Seriously man? I ask. Yes, its a High Energy Ignition therefore its too powerful. So what you're telling me is to take back this POS gun I bought last night and get my money back then buy the Snap On gun from my local Snap On truck? Exactly. The fella was very pleasant to speak with and very professional. My thing is there's thousands of HEI set ups out there. No way am I going to pay $300- $500 for that light even If I could afford it! So is this an actual issue or just him trying to up sell or??? Its supposed to be a decent gun, at least it the best gun my local Advanced Auto sells and I know they'll take it back.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Wrongway

[BearGFR]

Dang... something is definitely off here with what they're telling you.

I'm running an HEI on my car and also using some pretty hefty/fat plug wires.  My light, which is one of these:

https://www.boschdiagnostics.com/products/digital-timing-light

works just fine. 

If they're giving you the runaround, then I'd say return it and avoid the hassle.

Bear

[Wrongway]

Well, that's what I was thinking to bro. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. Guess I'll just order the Bosch 7529 like your running. I does look a lot like the Actron I was using. Same controls and I liked that one. Thank you

[64 kiwi boni]

Yip sounds like pure bull shit to me wrong way 

and the gun you have is faulty 

bear’s Bosch looks like a very good one 👍

I have a cheap one and it’s done all my motors hei on camaro msd6 in Plymouth 

electronic  one on my duratec cortina, hell even my old Ferguson tractor 

Edited December 12, 2020 by 64 kiwi boni

[Wrongway]

Yeah bro. I'm not sure if he was just clueless and making it up as he went or what. I JUSTA knew that it didn't sound right to me. Thanks bud

[Wrongway]

So I hooked up the new Bosch timing light. Same thing, on the RPM setting the numbers jump around sporadically and zeroed out. On the timing setting the light flashes very erratically and the mark jumps above and below the timing mark by a couple of inch's. So I reached out to Pertronix (maker of my distributor). Told him what was going on, what the guy from Innova tech support said (he DID call BS on that). Robert said (Pertronix guy) that it didn't make sense to have this problem with 3 lights and he'd call me back. So I got a call back today saying that he spent a couple hours in the lab last night trying to duplicate my issues with no luck. He said to try switching the pick up from #1 plug to #6 plug, that they should be on the same stroke so should be the same pulse. I'm also sending him the videos I have so they can try to figure out the problem. On the bright side, It was 34 degrees outside when I went out yesterday. I had not started her since before Christmas and she fired right up. Sounded great, ran great sitting in the driveway. Robert did ask what I was trying to accomplish. I told him that I should be between 10-12 degrees initial timing but I wasn't positive due to the timing light issues but I wanted to double check that I was all in by 2500rpm. He said according to their spec sheet I would be all in by 3000rpm. But I could be in earlier that their spec sheet was in 1000rpm increments.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Wrongway

[BearGFR]

Same problem with 3 lights, makes it unlikely that the issue is with the lights.   Therefore, it's probably something that's common and hasn't been changed during any of your tests.  Considering how those lights get triggered via the inductive pickup that you clip around a pug wire,  my vote is that it's the plug wires.  Obviously the car is running great and not missing at idle, so my thoughts are that something about those wires is somehow "shielding" the timing light pickup from working.  If it was something with the ignition itself I'd expect the car to be running crappy too - which it obviously isn't. 

The reason the RPM reading is fluctuating is because the light isn't triggering on every plug firing.  The way the RPM reading works is it just counts how often the plug is firing and 'does the math' to convert that frequency to an RPM.  On a 4-cycle engine, there will be two crank revolutions every time the plug fires, so all the light has to do is count pulses and multiply by 2 to get RPM.    Got any old or different plug wires laying around?  Try temporarily putting one of them on either #1 or #6, clip your light to it, and see if it's different.  Sometimes you can also get a different result by changing the location of the clip - putting it right down on the plug for example.

Bear