Frustrated

[BearGFR]

Don't worry about difference in readings too much before you ever run the engine. The rings haven't had a chance to seal.  As far as the noise, is it an automatic?  If so, remove the converter dust cover and see if it goes away.  I've had it happen a few times on my '69 where it gets installed just a tiny bit crooked and one of the converter bolts hits it.

 

Bear

[Wrongway]

Ok great Bear thanks bro. As far as the converter, the dust cover is off. I pulled it to make sure the converter was turning. Could they be hitting/rubbing anything else? I even thought about climbing under and looking while a buddy bumps it. Decided that was a really bad idea. 

[JUSTA6]

2 hours ago, Wrongway said:

Ok great Bear thanks bro. As far as the converter, the dust cover is off. I pulled it to make sure the converter was turning. Could they be hitting/rubbing anything else? I even thought about climbing under and looking while a buddy bumps it. Decided that was a really bad idea. 

Slide your phone under it.  Selfie stick???

[Wrongway]

That's brilliant bro . I hadn't thought of that. I don't own one but I think my daughter has one. If not I do have a 2x4 I can lay it on to move it around. Thanks bro.

[64 kiwi boni]

i am with Bear on this wrongway, justA do your engine a favour and bring up the oil pressure before you fire her.

 and once you do fire her, keep any eye on the oil pressure👍

[64 kiwi boni]

wrongway, after listening to your vid mate, it sounds like metal, maybe a starter motor to flywheel noise.

its really hard to tell.

 did you get her to start?

[Wrongway]

No brother I didn't start her yet. I did the compression test and took the video. I needed to walk a way from her bro. With all of the problems that she's had in the past I didn't want to do any more damage until i had a chance to look underneath her and talk to yall. I'll look under her when I wake up or when the sun comes up. Whichever happens first. But I will let yall know if i find anything. Thanks bro

[BearGFR]

Hmmm.. so the cover is already off. Whatever it is, it sounds like it's hitting on every crankshaft revolution.  I like the phone video idea.  I wonder if it could be something wedged in a tooth on the flex plate? Missing/damaged tooth?  Does it still do it with the dipstick pulled? Did the lower dipstick tube (the one that goes inside the pan) get left out?

I'm not sure I'd run it until I figured it out. 

If you can get it high enough to get under it safely, maybe try to get a better idea of where it's coming from. Make SURE it can't start - disable the ignition/pull all the spark plugs. 

Yeah, it'll be a pain if it has to come out again but not as much of one as having it eat itself if it fires and fills the oiling system with metal shavings - if that's what's happening. 

EDIT: I just listened to the sound again several times.  It's hard to tell what it is, except that it's "in time" with the crank shaft/distributor rotation.  The 'tone and pitch' in the recording is probably somewhat different than what it sounds like in real life.  So, in keeping with the theme of "check the easy stuff first", try it will the distributor cap off, maybe even with the distributor removed (you'll have to make sure you get it 'timed' correctly when you re-install it).  Try it with the rocker covers off.  Does that change things?  Can you see any 'weird' movements?   If you can do so safely like I mentioned above, have someone spin it over while you're listening from underneath, maybe putting your hands on various spots to see if you can feel impact. 

Bear

Edited September 30, 2020 by BearGFR

[JUSTA6]

HMMMM missing crank washer????   Justa jokin Bro.  Bear might have it with the dipstick.  Justa pull it half way out to check.   I will not confirm or deny how I know this.

[Wrongway]

Will do bear. Thanks again guys. Yeah I gotcha crank washer JUSTA 

[64 kiwi boni]

wrong way, pull the plugs and turn the motor over by hand with a long handle bar on the crank bolt.

does the full rotation feel smooth ???

[Wrongway]

Ok, so I pulled out the dip stick, removed valve covers, plugs out, no dust cover. Still did it. Put a bar on the crank pully and as soon as I started turning it she went click. On 2 full rotations only the 1 click. Cranked the ignition and the sound was still there. Again had buddy turn by hand with me underneath. Felt and heard click from starter, 1 click only. As always I've included pick and videos. My thoughts are that's something was hitting the battery cable on the starter while cranking and only softly pushing the battery cable on hand crack. I'm not sure how, but there are marks on it. In the 2nd video of the bench test I held the starter "on" longer to hear how sounded. The starter seems to function correctly but I'm not sure if that's the way it should actually sound. Going to reassemble and see what see does.

Starter test.MOVStarter sound test.MOV

Edited September 30, 2020 by Wrongway

[Wrongway]

Well upon further review I can't see anything that could be hitting that cable. Its not near the starter gear or flywheel .

[Wrongway]

Never heard a started that loud, like after it starts up. Near the end of the video. Could that actually be the problem. Just echoing over the engine sound?

[64 kiwi boni]

that starter sound pretty normal to me, but maybe try another starter Wrongway, 

how did it feel to turn over by hand ??

you should not be hearing any click from the starter while your turning the motor over by hand, that gear on the starter should be well and truely clear of the ring gear on the flywheel.

just in case too, disconnect those fan/ power steer belts just as another way of eliminating things that could be making that noise.

 also whats your thoughts on where the noise is coming from ??

 is this the same fly wheel and starter from before the rebuild  ?

another thought is to get your mate to turn the motor over by hand, while you watch the flywheel and check that its spinning true to the block( not wobbling)

Edited October 1, 2020 by 64 kiwi boni

[Wrongway]

It just seems like I'm hearing something at the end of that last video. After the wind up, or maybe I'm just wanting that to be the issue.

Turning by hand felt fine, no more no less resistance then normal. Only clicks 1 time, right after I try starting it. Even then its smooth turning it. 

Yup, same starter and flywheel. Flywheel was bought new when I rebuilt. The starter is old, not sure how old but its the one I've been using.

I had a bubby turn the engine by hand and had him crank it while watching torque convertor and flywheel, both looked straight and the flywheel wasn't removed from the engine while it was out this time.

As for my thoughts bro, It sounds like its coming from the bottom of the engine area. Bellhousing, starter area. Its definitely the back bottom.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Wrongway

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Have been away for awhile... But I'm  back now........Does the engine have an oil scavenger tray in the bottom...?? If so It's very possible that one counter weights on the crankshaft might be hitting it or rubbing against it once on every revolution.... 

Edited October 1, 2020 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[Wrongway]

Hey bro, welcome back. Not sure exactly if this is what your talking about. But this "pan" is what's inside of my oil pan. But if a weight or something inside was hitting on rotation wouldn't I be able to feel it when i rotate the engine by hand? When I rotate it by hand she's smooth.

[64 kiwi boni]

i think its worth trying another starter motor Wrongway, know anyone you can loan one off? it looks a very standard gm unit

[BearGFR]

That's called a windage tray. It's purpose is to keep the crank from picking up a whirling mass of oil, which robs power.  You've got one of the nice full length factory trays. No longer available from anywhere. The later model and repop trays are 3/4 length.  I can see the lower dipstick tube right where it's supposed to be, too, so it's not likely that what you're hearing is coming from the dipstick. 

 

Bear

 

 

[Wrongway]

Thanks Bear. Yeah kiwi, I've been thinking the same thing. I may know a guy, if not I can barrow one from that parts house until I figure it out. I'll call my buddy as soon as I'm done with this  steering wheel.

[64 kiwi boni]

when  you do try another starter Wrong way, just have the plugs out, take the alternator and power steer belts off, so you have bugger all that could cause the noise.

if it is your starter i would expect that there would be marks on the flexplate ring gear showing wear marks.

just seams really odd that you didnt have this before, having that your using the same flex plate, and starter.🙄

 is there any chance the flex plate was hit or damaged ?

Edited October 2, 2020 by 64 kiwi boni

[Wrongway]

Well the flex plate is new so any marks should be easy to see I would think. I didn't see any but I'll go look again when I get can somebody to turn it. As far as hit or damaged, I guess it could have maybe been hit or damaged when bolting the engine back to the transmission in the car. Just doesn't seem real likely. I will be barrowing a starter from the parts house tonight. So hopefully that will still end up solving the problem. 

[Wrongway]

Went and borrowed the starter from then parts house. Plan on installing it tomorrow. I went with the mini high torque. I've been told a few time that Pontiacs have a problem with starters getting hot. Here's what I got.

[64 kiwi boni]

very cool Wrongway. 

All gm starters give trouble.... they dont like heat and add headers makes it worse

i use a local company called road runner starters and they have never let me down

https://www.roadrunner-starters.co

they work really well, after lots of hard stop / start, cranking they still are 100%.

the sound you are getting  does sound like a starter issue, but, is really hard to tell from your recording.

hell mate if i was there i could tell you in the blink of an eye what the noise was...

3 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

very cool Wrongway. 

All gm starters give trouble.... they dont like heat and add headers makes it worse

i use a local company called road runner starters and they have never let me down

https://www.roadrunner-starters.co

they work really well, after lots of hard stop / start, cranking they still are 100%.

the sound you are getting  does sound like a starter issue, but, is really hard to tell from your recording.

hell mate if i was there i could tell you in the blink of an eye what the noise was...

https://www.roadrunner-starters.com/products/rs808-2-0kw?_pos=8&_sid=b7fe4859a&_ss=r