Oil roll call. What do you run, and maybe why?

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

Really...Started using the Gibbs oil in our race engines (NASCAR Modifieds)....Starting around 2012.... Have won some races...While using it.... Like it really well...Also used it in a 4000 lb. 1953 Studebaker running one of our engines....(Same combination as our modified engines but with a 750 carb...rather than the NASCR mandated 390 carb...added right at 95 Horses with just the carb change).... Ran 205 MPH in the measured mile at Loring Maine....

[Ponchoguy]

5 hours ago, Last Indian said:

Ok, well if that’s what you meant, than I mean what I said, the lack of their knowledge of how Zinc dithiophosphate actually works I would bet on! Very few people outside of the chemical industry know how this chemistry actually works! What they understand is engines internally tend not to fail when it’s used in high performance applications. So they don’t see many if any failures from mechanically wear in those engines they build and it’s used in. So basically it’s called CYA! If you can tell me what they specifically said as to how ZDDP works, chemically, well than I’ll say they understand it, but I doubt that will happen. What I recall I said was the PennGrade wasn’t bad by the oil specs, but the ZDDP was to much. Sorry, it still is for a non race car application!

I worked in the industry for way to long to not know most people don’t understand most chemical additives, especially boundary layer additives.

I’ll look tomorrow at work from my desk top not my stupid phone .. especially after looking at my spell check and Grammer from the other night. I will however state that from the beginning of this post.. I said roll call.. which means hey everyone.. what oil do you use and why??????? It was a conversation topic to start.. I’m not looking back at my exact words tonight.. but it was basically here it what was recommended to me.. NOT this is my oil!!! That’s why I even started this post.. I’ve never even heard of Brad Penn until I had my 468 built by probably the best engine builders in West Michigan. I was just looking for AND I LITERALLY QUOTE!!!!!!!! “ What do you run and why” 

so seriously before you start the next rant.. read what I write... COOL!??!?’

[Ponchoguy]

On 4/19/2020 at 12:43 PM, Last Indian said:

On 4/18/2020 at 5:41 PM, 64 kiwi boni said:

is the TBN number  🙄

 

On 4/18/2020 at 6:47 PM, JUSTA6 said:

I'm with ya kiwi boni,  don't know the TBN from the TAN.  Justa always been a fan of Castrol.  The Sunbird and GTO don't see 500 mi a year.  I know oil breaks down with age, so usually change the oil every other year on the Hotrods,  3 to 3500 on the daily drivers.  GM gets AC only filters and the trucks get Motorcraft. 

Sure, I can do that Kiwi! TBN stands for total base number. This comes minimally from the base stock of oil but mostly from the additive package. This numbe

 

2 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

Lookin back, it's amazing how brand Loyal we were on everything. (and many of us still are) The win on Sunday = sales on Monday generation.  From the Big 3 car manufacturers to every sticker/sponsor on our favorite racers. You can't say racing in any form without thinkin Valvoline,  Penzzoil, Castrol, STP   on the tip of your tongue as you walked into the auto parts store.  But these were competing with your favorite/trusted gas stations, Mobil, Shell, Texaco, Exxon, Sinclair oil companys to name a few for your oil needs.   Other than Mobil, where do the rest of the oil brands blend into the list?  Did they not score high enough?  Or simply too many to list?  I was going to make a joke about not going through the BS of sending in a stool sample of my oil for analysis, but apparently Stewy does. " Very cool " if that's what your in to. At what point does average Joe say this is what I've always trusted and it's never let me down.   As I said before Last Indian, where would we be without all the countless hours, testing, tuning and producing the highest quality products available, that you and many others have the knowledge and have worked to expose what is truly THE BEST.    40yrs ago an engine with 100,000 on it was junk.   Today it's Justa well broken in, with 200,000 as the new bench mark.

Salute

This is kinda what I was looking for when I started this post... what do You run.. and why.. maybe Dad did.. maybe you had a bad experience with X brand.. this was supposed to be just a round table chat... THATS ALL!!!

[Ringo64]

Alright guys, let’s take a chill pill here . Obviously some buttons got pushed on each side. Let’s take a step back and relax before this goes any further. Thank you.

[Last Indian]

1 hour ago, Ringo64 said:

Alright guys, let’s take a chill pill here . Obviously some buttons got pushed on each side. Let’s take a step back and relax before this goes any further. Thank you.

 

10 hours ago, Ponchoguy said:

 

This is kinda what I was looking for when I started this post... what do You run.. and why.. maybe Dad did.. maybe you had a bad experience with X brand.. this was supposed to be just a round table chat... THATS ALL!!!

Casey, if you felt that I was attacking you I apologize! I wasn’t, it may have seemed as i was, but that was not my intent! And Ringo is absolutely right. As are you! You did post it up as what oil do you run?! My first answer did not really address that question. It addressed what I have seen in folks all through my working career, basically what my buddy JustA said. Buying an oil for some reason unrelated to the oils quality or the cars need. So in my first post I tried to give some information relative to oils purpose, which didn’t answer the original post question you asked! From there it went south. Again I apologize to you and I hope we’re good!

Edited April 22, 2020 by Last Indian

[indymanjoe]

13 hours ago, Last Indian said:

What’s really interesting here Joe is the Joe Gibbs Racing oil! Look at the ppm of zinc (ZDDP) yet look at the psi number! This oil is one of the oils we worked on with him back in the. It has our additive package in it. This zinc level is so low you could easily run this for the street! No problem!

 

Yea i'll be changing my oil brand now. Great thread. The Lemans is a roller lifter set up so I don't need a lot of zinc anyways. The new truck will be getting the Joe gibbs oil as well.

[Stewy]

Quote

I was going to make a joke about not going through the BS of sending in a stool sample of my oil for analysis, but apparently Stewy does

Loud and proud, baby! 😁

 

An oil "stool sample" - lol. Never thought of it like that but I can't disagree 😄

[JUSTA6]

4 hours ago, Stewy said:

Loud and proud, baby! 😁

 

An oil "stool sample" - lol. Never thought of it like that but I can't disagree 😄

No intentions of offending you in any way bro.    From the start.....was gonna make a JOKE.

[Ponchoguy]

On 4/22/2020 at 9:25 AM, Last Indian said:

 

Casey, if you felt that I was attacking you I apologize! I wasn’t, it may have seemed as i was, but that was not my intent! And Ringo is absolutely right. As are you! You did post it up as what oil do you run?! My first answer did not really address that question. It addressed what I have seen in folks all through my working career, basically what my buddy JustA said. Buying an oil for some reason unrelated to the oils quality or the cars need. So in my first post I tried to give some information relative to oils purpose, which didn’t answer the original post question you asked! From there it went south. Again I apologize to you and I hope we’re good!

Absolutely, I never tried to make an argument... I’m sorry if I came off like and a$$  we are absolutely 100% good. Like I said.. I Really appreciate the great info🙏🙏🙏 Car guys gotta stick together!!!

 

On 4/22/2020 at 9:25 AM, Last Indian said:

 

Casey, if you felt that I was attacking you I apologize! I wasn’t, it may have seemed as i was, but that was not my intent! And Ringo is absolutely right. As are you! You did post it up as what oil do you run?! My first answer did not really address that question. It addressed what I have seen in folks all through my working career, basically what my buddy JustA said. Buying an oil for some reason unrelated to the oils quality or the cars need. So in my first post I tried to give some information relative to oils purpose, which didn’t answer the original post question you asked! From there it went south. Again I apologize to you and I hope we’re good!

 

[Ponchoguy]

15 hours ago, Stewy said:

Loud and proud, baby! 😁

 

An oil "stool sample" - lol. Never thought of it like that but I can't disagree 😄

I’ve been a Master Diesel mechanic for year and tears... thing thing about oil samples is you’re  good, you’re good, you’re  good, you’re fucked. Now that being said.. if you are hauling a perishable product and a breakdown is an CATASTROPHIC event.. then oil analysis is definitely worth the money.. if not I would recommend  cutting your oil filter at changing and look for glitter.. WAY cheaper!! Jmho!!!

[Stewy]

18 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

No intentions of offending you in any way bro.    From the start.....was gonna make a JOKE.

No offense taken. I really did lol 😀

 

Quote

I’ve been a Master Diesel mechanic for year and tears... thing thing about oil samples is you’re  good, you’re good, you’re  good, you’re fucked. Now that being said.. if you are hauling a perishable product and a breakdown is an CATASTROPHIC event.. then oil analysis is definitely worth the money.. if not I would recommend  cutting your oil filter at changing and look for glitter.. WAY cheaper!! Jmho!!!

Fair enough.

I have seen, from personal experience with gasoline engines, where things with a given engine are fine from the outside (sounds, performance, etc.) however the oil sample did catch an issue that was in its infancy. I have also seen, second hand, where others have been in the same boat (the report caught things early enough for them to save their engine). Additionally, I have had analysis run on transmission oil samples as well. Again, speaking only from my experience, I feel the reports are very much valuable in not only the analytical breakdown provided but also in regard to "keeping an eye on things". I very much agree that hacking the filter apart would give a great source of insight but I like data so augmenting the filter dissection with a metallurgical & chemical analysis is right up my alley.

Really what most things with multiple schools of thought come down to is what legitimately works for one person may not be the best thing for someone else and that's totally cool - we all find a method / process / item / etc. that works for us we run with it. 🙂

As a high school math teacher would often tell the class, "There's more than one way to skin a cat" 😁

Edited April 24, 2020 by Stewy

[Last Indian]

3 hours ago, Stewy said:

No offense taken. I really did lol 😀

 

Fair enough.

I have seen, from personal experience with gasoline engines, where things with a given engine are fine from the outside (sounds, performance, etc.) however the oil sample did catch an issue that was in its infancy. I have also seen, second hand, where others have been in the same boat (the report caught things early enough for them to save their engine). Additionally, I have had analysis run on transmission oil samples as well. Again, speaking only from my experience, I feel the reports are very much valuable in not only the analytical breakdown provided but also in regard to "keeping an eye on things". I very much agree that hacking the filter apart would give a great source of insight but I like data so augmenting the filter dissection with a metallurgical & chemical analysis is right up my alley.

Really what most things with multiple schools of thought come down to is what legitimately works for one person may not be the best thing for someone else and that's totally cool - we all find a method / process / item / etc. that works for us we run with it. 🙂

As a high school math teacher would often tell the class, "There's more than one way to skin a cat" 😁

Right you are Stewy! Cutting a filter open can reveal some information that may be helpful, but it can’t tell you anything below 25 micron and that information is whats critical! Once it’s big enough to see in a filter, it’s pretty much to late!

[Ponchoguy]

On 4/22/2020 at 9:58 AM, indymanjoe said:

 

Yea i'll be changing my oil brand now. Great thread. The Lemans is a roller lifter set up so I don't need a lot of zinc anyways. The new truck will be getting the Joe gibbs oil as well.

I. NEVER wanted anyone to kick sand. This was supposed to be an informative thing from the start. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Ponchoguy]

On 4/24/2020 at 11:02 AM, Last Indian said:

Right you are Stewy! Cutting a filter open can reveal some information that may be helpful, but it can’t tell you anything below 25 micron and that information is whats critical! Once it’s big enough to see in a filter, it’s pretty much to late!

Thank you for the great info, can I ask a question? Not trying to be smart at all.. but.. I just read through almost all of this thread.. what exactly does an oil expert recommend for a street car? Again  I feel you are probably the one we should be listening too.. right??? I don’t mean viscosity that should be more left to the climate of the owner, I get that much. I’d like to hear you say a recommendation on brand and type? You have convinced me sir. I read a little nod to Castrol but can I make you give a real honest “I recommend “ this :   Again your insight has been really good reading, thank you 🙏 

[indymanjoe]

21 hours ago, Ponchoguy said:

I. NEVER wanted anyone to kick sand. This was supposed to be an informative thing from the start. 🤷🏼‍♂️

I think it has been informative.

Why did you quote me though? I reread everything and i dont see where you may feel i accused you of kicking sand. No worry's on my end.

welcome to the site!

[Ponchoguy]

20 hours ago, indymanjoe said:

I think it has been informative.

Why did you quote me though? I reread everything and i dont see where you may feel i accused you of kicking sand. No worry's on my end.

welcome to the site!

Probably grabbed the wrong one.. sorry 😬

[Last Indian]

On 4/25/2020 at 10:52 PM, Ponchoguy said:

Thank you for the great info, can I ask a question? Not trying to be smart at all.. but.. I just read through almost all of this thread.. what exactly does an oil expert recommend for a street car? Again  I feel you are probably the one we should be listening too.. right??? I don’t mean viscosity that should be more left to the climate of the owner, I get that much. I’d like to hear you say a recommendation on brand and type? You have convinced me sir. I read a little nod to Castrol but can I make you give a real honest “I recommend “ this :   Again your insight has been really good reading, thank you 🙏 

Casey, in general I don’t like to name a specific oil to use to folks! Every engine is different, every driver is different and while there are specific things that equate to all engines, to name a specific for you assumes I know you as a driver and your motor. Plus I still have some interaction with my company, even though I retired 5 years ago, but I have ongoing patents and such. They tend to frown on endorsing a particular oil company since they sell their additives to many oil companies!
That said I will say this! Before the “90s” pass car and diesel used the same oil, but they divided the oils in to two segments. Pass car & diesel, but not for the reasons they told the public. Mainly it amounts to what most things come down to, money! Cut about half of the additive package out of the pass car oil, charge the same money, nice tidy profit! I personally use diesel in my cars. Both my 12 & 13 Lacrosses as well as the Indian. There are quite few on the market and all have a better additive package than any of the current pass car oils! With the exception of the niche companies that cater to the Hot Rodders, and as I said already, most, not all, but most use to much ZDDP! Unless you are racing the car!
 

[64 kiwi boni]

Last Indian, this topic is very interesting, my issue is, you walk into your parts store and look at all the oils and not one of them will have the information on them you really need.

 you have to go home, jump on the inter webby thing and hunt down the specs.

 great example : i have an old drum of bp 2000 oil, i hunted the web for its specs.... and found very little.

when i am looking for oils for my old cars i know i need zinc, but most on the shelf oils dont state how much zinc they have in them.

Got to remember here too is we pay anything from $6 to $25 per litre (nz dollars and there 4 litres in a gallon) so cost is very relevant.

https://www.supercheapauto.co.nz/shop-by-category/servicing-and-maintenance/engine-oil

Edited April 28, 2020 by 64 kiwi boni

[Ponchoguy]

1 hour ago, Last Indian said:

Casey, in general I don’t like to name a specific oil to use to folks! Every engine is different, every driver is different and while there are specific things that equate to all engines, to name a specific for you assumes I know you as a driver and your motor. Plus I still have some interaction with my company, even though I retired 5 years ago, but I have ongoing patents and such. They tend to frown on endorsing a particular oil company since they sell their additives to many oil companies!
That said I will say this! Before the “90s” pass car and diesel used the same oil, but they divided the oils in to two segments. Pass car & diesel, but not for the reasons they told the public. Mainly it amounts to what most things come down to, money! Cut about half of the additive package out of the pass car oil, charge the same money, nice tidy profit! I personally use diesel in my cars. Both my 12 & 13 Lacrosses as well as the Indian. There are quite few on the market and all have a better additive package than any of the current pass car oils! With the exception of the niche companies that cater to the Hot Rodders, and as I said already, most, not all, but most use to much ZDDP! Unless you are racing the car!
 

That I can appreciate.. that’s something substantial. THANK YOU!! I can read between the lines.. I really appreciate that. That being said.. I could not find a real good oil for a Honda I had, it had a wet clutch and people got funny about that.. I finally found someone that swore by rotella T5 and I had great success with that. 15-40 isn’t far off from 2O-50 I’ve also seen 10-30 Rotella!! 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[Last Indian]

19 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Last Indian, this topic is very interesting, my issue is, you walk into your parts store and look at all the oils and not one of them will have the information on them you really need.

 you have to go home, jump on the inter webby thing and hunt down the specs.

 great example : i have an old drum of bp 2000 oil, i hunted the web for its specs.... and found very little.

when i am looking for oils for my old cars i know i need zinc, but most on the shelf oils dont state how much zinc they have in them.

Got to remember here too is we pay anything from $6 to $25 per litre (nz dollars and there 4 litres in a gallon) so cost is very relevant.

https://www.supercheapauto.co.nz/shop-by-category/servicing-and-maintenance/engine-oil

Well the bp visco 2000 is ok from an older car point of view. The TBN is 8 which isn’t great, but ok I you change it at 3000mi. (4828km). The zinc is about 1000ppm. What you say about the availability of specs for specific oils is true. In general most companies don’t want you to know what the do with their oil. It’s why I answered Ponchoguy as I did. From one company to the next, additives especially, were pretty secretive.

18 hours ago, Ponchoguy said:

That I can appreciate.. that’s something substantial. THANK YOU!! I can read between the lines.. I really appreciate that. That being said.. I could not find a real good oil for a Honda I had, it had a wet clutch and people got funny about that.. I finally found someone that swore by rotella T5 and I had great success with that. 15-40 isn’t far off from 2O-50 I’ve also seen 10-30 Rotella!! 🙏🙏🙏🙏

So while I can’t really get into specifics! I can say this! Well maybe not say, but?

you know I think I heard somewhere a picture is worth a 1000 words!

Edited April 28, 2020 by Last Indian

[Ponchoguy]

4 hours ago, Last Indian said:

Well the bp visco 2000 is ok from an older car point of view. The TBN is 8 which isn’t great, but ok I you change it at 3000mi. (4828km). The zinc is about 1000ppm. What you say about the availability of specs for specific oils is true. In general most companies don’t want you to know what the do with their oil. It’s why I answered Ponchoguy as I did. From one company to the next, additives especially, were pretty secretive.

So while I can’t really get into specifics! I can say this! Well maybe not say, but?

you know I think I heard somewhere a picture is worth a 1000 words!

I mentioned I could read between lines and that makes me feel like I was getting what you were putting down!! AWESOME!!

[64 kiwi boni]

9 hours ago, Last Indian said:

Well the bp visco 2000 is ok from an older car point of view. The TBN is 8 which isn’t great, but ok I you change it at 3000mi. (4828km). The zinc is about 1000ppm. What you say about the availability of specs for specific oils is true. In general most companies don’t want you to know what the do with their oil. It’s why I answered Ponchoguy as I did. From one company to the next, additives especially, were pretty secretive.

So while I can’t really get into specifics! I can say this! Well maybe not say, but?

you know I think I heard somewhere a picture is worth a 1000 words!

Thank you mate great info above and below "the line" 

i will do some hunting around to see if i can buy these here!!

 i am sure my 389 engine deserves the good oil  and my 313 poly and my 400 and 350 sbc and the ram 360, heck they may be best for the cortinas !

10 hours ago, Last Indian said:

Well the bp visco 2000 is ok from an older car point of view. The TBN is 8 which isn’t great, but ok I you change it at 3000mi. (4828km). The zinc is about 1000ppm. What you say about the availability of specs for specific oils is true. In general most companies don’t want you to know what the do with their oil. It’s why I answered Ponchoguy as I did. From one company to the next, additives especially, were pretty secretive.

So while I can’t really get into specifics! I can say this! Well maybe not say, but?

you know I think I heard somewhere a picture is worth a 1000 words!

Last Indian.... What are you paying for this oil??

[Last Indian]

7 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Thank you mate great info above and below "the line" 

i will do some hunting around to see if i can buy these here!!

 i am sure my 389 engine deserves the good oil  and my 313 poly and my 400 and 350 sbc and the ram 360, heck they may be best for the cortinas !

Last Indian.... What are you paying for this oil??

Kiwi, I’m not paying anything😁! Did I ever mention I worked for one of the largest specialty chemical additive companies in the world! One of the perks of running experimental testing! I think my reserve stock will take me well past my oil changing days!🤞

Checking online it appears you can get a gallon of T4, here for around $15. 
It looks like the Valvoline syn runs about $20 a gallon. So again you see my point! The T4 is conventional oil, the Valvoline is syn oil, I would run both 3000 to 3500 miles for an oil change, but the T4, which I run in the Indian I Change every other year, which is usually between 1000 & 1500 miles. The point is the T4 has the full additive package that was always in both oils till they cut the pass car additive package in half. But the T4 is cheaper than the Valvoline! Really!!

Edited April 29, 2020 by Last Indian

[64 kiwi boni]

On 4/20/2020 at 12:45 PM, Frosty said:

What do the various motor oil weights mean like 0W-50, 10W-30, 20W-30, SAE50, etc and how do they effect engine performance, longevity, and reliability.

When should you use a particular weight oil vs. another?

Last Indian,

JustA would like to talk about oil again, last year Frosty asked a question that has been nagging at me too. see above 

finding the correct weight oils seam important to me because of our climate, and would be keen to get a better understanding of how it comes into play when buying oil👍

[Last Indian]

On 1/23/2021 at 5:31 PM, 64 kiwi boni said:

Last Indian,

JustA would like to talk about oil again, last year Frosty asked a question that has been nagging at me too. see above 

finding the correct weight oils seam important to me because of our climate, and would be keen to get a better understanding of how it comes into play when buying oil👍

Oil Weight?! This measurement tells the flow characteristics of an oil at a given temperature! So when you see a oil listed as being a 10w30 it means that oil behaves like a 10 weight oil at 0 deg C (32F) but, at 100C (212F) it behaves like 30 weight! All multigrades behave this way and their measurements ratings are all made at these temperatures. 

Now with that said, when speaking of the viscosity of an oil some things need to be taken into consideration. What kind of motor? What kind of HP? How much bearing clearance? What kind of driving will be done?

If you have bearing clearance of .0030 or more and or you have 275 HP or more and or the motor will see 6000 RPM or more you should run a 20w50 in warm weather! 

With respect to bearing clearance; bigger bearing clearances are typical in old skool motors! This means every time a mixture fires, that larger clearance allows the journal to hammer into the lead/bibbitt bearing. The thicker viscosity oil acts like an air bag does for the stunt man jumping off a roof! It slows down and cushions the impact of that journal. Lower viscosity oil helps with fuel economy and works very well with tighter motors! So some things folks need to consider is, what kind of motor do you have? What are your needs of your motor? What are the demands on your motor?