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onetrick56's 1964 Grand Prix

2020 September
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65 GP grille


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Hey All, so I'm removing the silver paint that the previous owner had painted the front bumper with to hide some rust spots, and now that most of it's removed (tough job, but bumper looks heaps better, even with a few rusty patches) and noticed some chrome on my grille that seems to have come through the factory silver paint due to weathering. My question is: is the factory finish on a 65 GP grille supposed to be silver or chrome? I've dug up a few photos and it looks like silver is factory.

I need a GP owner or knowledgeable Pontiac freak to enlighten me.

Keep up the great site. I thought I was a petrolhead until I trawled through some stuff here. You guys have got it bad!

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Fitzy all's good buddy.  We are JUSTA joking ...to a point.  As you have needs that require fuel efficient vehicles, far more than we do.  Pontiac is more than Justa vehicle manufacturer to us. It rep

...and your point is? I'm not nuts, I like being evil and totally irresponsible. I smoke, drink, and fart in public too. I like being politically incorrect because being "correct" just side steps

Fitzy, I think JustA & Frosty’s answer was dead on! I love cars, I have always appreciated an original car whether it was concourse, survivor or just original, but used. But for me I have never be

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Fitzy - check out the grille photos in this eBay ad. I think the owner has done a great job photographing the part with different views in it's current state. I think this may answer your question. If not, let us know.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nice-1965-Pontiac-Grand-Prix-front-grille-set-headlight-bezel-parking-lights/303350721463

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Thanks Frosty - looks like silver finish is factory but with a chrome perimeter which is exactly how mine is. 

This'll make you laugh. I decided to have a look at my front parking lights, so undid the 2 screws and as I was putting the screws somewhere safe, the lens fell out and hit the concrete floor immediately disintegrating into a thousand little pieces of 55 year old sun affected plastic. I uttered some choice words whilst idly wondering how much glue I'd need to save it. Ames can supply new lenses, so I've added them to my ever expanding shopping list. Honestly, what else would I be doing with my life if I wasn't playing with my car? Getting out and meeting people? Volunteering? Saving the planet?

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Shuffle board? Yahtzee? A Kiwi Rapper? Becoming part of the ever growing global paparazzi problem? Stalking your prime minister? 

Nah, just burn more than your fair share of hydro-carbons. Your Grand Prix can make up for, oh I don't know, 10 or more Priuses.

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You can be assured that when I reach the Pearly Gates (unlikely, probably the Downstairs Section instead) I, like the rest of us will receive an itemised tally of all the pollutants our cars spewed out over the decades and payment will be required, in the form of one's soul. In the meantime, be content in the fact that I shall definitely offset any gains being made by hybrids & EVs, simply by starting the beast.

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Every year at the Woodward Dream Cruise, there is '66 Pontiac Bonneville station wagon with a 455 in it. He has a sign in the driver's side rear window that states "This car makes up for 10 Priuses!". It warms the cockles of my evil / anti-environmental heart.

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Sorry....that's NOT tire smoke, it's Prius repellent.   :driving:

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True. 

image.png.62b2c815bc3a452d9b58a540474072ca.png

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You guys are nuts! You probably should get used to EVs & Hybrids - anyway, let THEM make a statement whilst you guzzle precious fuel. There's no shame driving something economical & efficient as your daily, just so long as you can start the Olde Girl on the weekend and atone for your sins of being environmentally conscious.

I drive a Japper as a daily and also have a mountain bike, but nothing comes close to that V8 rumble - nothing sounds like a V8, only a V8. Even a 40's Tatra with that aircooled rear mounted V8 sounds the business. Check YouTube for a clip.

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2 hours ago, Fitzy said:

You guys are nuts! You probably should get used to EVs & Hybrids - anyway, let THEM make a statement whilst you guzzle precious fuel. There's no shame driving something economical & efficient as your daily, just so long as you can start the Olde Girl on the weekend and atone for your sins of being environmentally conscious.

I drive a Japper as a daily and also have a mountain bike, but nothing comes close to that V8 rumble - nothing sounds like a V8, only a V8. Even a 40's Tatra with that aircooled rear mounted V8 sounds the business. Check YouTube for a clip.

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

Sorry, my link to the joke on measuring your displacement in LITERS wouldn't work.

So your HondDUH has 1.5 liters as opposed to my 2 liter PEPSI????:rofl:

 

 

 

 

 

LUG NUTS.jpg

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When I said you guys are nuts, I meant fanatics - no disrespect was supposed to be inferred. All valid points re EV infrastructure- yours would be far superior to ours and Australia in particular is as big as north America, but with vast expanses of...nothing, in between towns & cities. It's this scenario that causes EV range anxiety, and so it should. You know, I used to ride a bicycle in traffic when I was a teenager and I can still taste the leaded carburetted exhaust that I was forced to breathe in as I kept up with the traffic. God knows what sort of brain damage I have suffered breathing all that crap in! These days with unleaded fuel, cats and electronic fuel injection, vehicle exhaust is better than ever, so I guess going electric is the next logical step. Like I said, if your daily driver is efficient and fairly clean, it's the right thing to do. Keep the Poncho for the weekend, and everyone wins. That's not too extreme, is it?

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16 hours ago, Fitzy said:

You guys are nuts! You probably should get used to EVs & Hybrids - anyway, let THEM make a statement whilst you guzzle precious fuel. There's no shame driving something economical & efficient as your daily, just so long as you can start the Olde Girl on the weekend and atone for your sins of being environmentally conscious.

I drive a Japper as a daily and also have a mountain bike, but nothing comes close to that V8 rumble - nothing sounds like a V8, only a V8. Even a 40's Tatra with that aircooled rear mounted V8 sounds the business. Check YouTube for a clip.

 

22 minutes ago, JUSTA6 said:

Fitzy all's good buddy.  We are JUSTA joking ...to a point.  As you have needs that require fuel efficient vehicles, far more than we do.  Pontiac is more than Justa vehicle manufacturer to us. It represents a way of life.  My Dad worked for Pontiac Motors and I was lucky enough to be hired into Pontiac Motors here in Pontiac Mich,  The roots of everything Pontiac.  After a career of watching the Asian car companys abuse our economy with unfair trade practices and dumping basically disposable cars (4-5 years and most were in junkyards) there is still a terrible taste left in my mouth towards imports.  To make matters worse, Pontiac is now a memory and imports (no matter how much they have improved quality)  are a large portion of the vehicles on the road today. Most claiming to be built in the USA, but they are simply assembled here.  There are thousands of small shops required to build cars, from nuts N bolts to plastics, electronics ect.  THAT is American made.  Sadly even our companys now put cheep trash parts into our cars.  Air Bags.....Nuff said.  The disrespect came from the generation behind me,  somehow overlooking the companys that put the roof over their head, food in the mouth, paid for their educations and the list goes on N on.   There are 4 Pontiac's in my family tribe and 2 Ford daily drivers.  SUV and Ranger truck.  All 3 of my adult kids always have and always will respect American automotive community even though they are making it harder all the time.  Nothin better than spending an afternoon at a carshow with my family and the Pontiac's.:pontiac:

Let me Justa say this about that! 
In the Middle Ages the educated believed the the plague was caused by witches! Than as more and more died the scientists of the time believed finally it was the rats! Ultimately it was the fact that basically they were all just a bunch of filthy pigs that infected themselves by their filth that breezed fleas that carried the disease. We now have Lyme disease that has far reaching affects that the educated deny. So even though there is more evidence that points to man having very little impact on the co2 impact to the planet, I know I believe the educated!!😁 

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Well said. That was a great response and illustrates how deep your car culture and allegiance go. You are probably aware that our own GM division, Holden recently announced that it was ceasing operations later this year. To be fair, the global car market has been overturned in recent years and here in Oz, the large rear drive sedan became a dinosaur which nobody wanted, despite the fact Australia was turning out some decent world class machinery - but...hello SUVs. Holden has been an Aussie institution since 1948 with a huge fan base, and now it's disappearing. Our disproportionately small car market can't sustain the 60 or so manufacturers who sell cars here, so the axe has fallen.

As an aside, many years ago whilst tooling around Florida in a rented Pontiac LeMans, the thing drove so badly that I pulled over and checked the ID tag. Yep, made by Daewoo. It was a crapper,  and I get your comments on the flurry of imports that have invaded your home market.

Our petrol (gas) is far more expensive than yours, and just like you Australia is largely car-centric, so any movement towards low emission vehicles or to take an alternate means of transport can only be good.  There will always be that segment, just like us, who dig the old stuff, so there's no reason why the daily drivers and the Iron Horses can't co-exist.

It's not all about global warming either. I believe that the planet is undergoing a cycle that has been going on for millenia - our impact has been minimal, but if we can clean it up a little, it's all good.

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6 hours ago, Fitzy said:

As an aside, many years ago whilst tooling around Florida in a rented Pontiac LeMans, the thing drove so badly that I pulled over and checked the ID tag. Yep, made by Daewoo. It was a crapper,  and I get your comments on the flurry of imports that have invaded your home market.

Yeah, this was one of the worst decisions ever by GM. Bringing in a Daewoo and calling it a LeMans.

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Was sorry to hear about  Holden.  That was a base for the last gasp G8, an awesome ride!   The Lemans you so fondly spoke of was an import here.  GMs shot at building cars in the Asian market.  The only reason to explain the trade gap in the automotive world, was GM cars were too big for their roads.  Pontiac also bedded down with YOTA power in Vibes. (another lower my head moment)  Owners either loved or hated...NO middle ground.  Like the Lemans, parts were stupid expensive.

The industry as a whole has made great strides in emissions and MPG.  While the number of cars on the road is off the charts compared to 30-40 years ago.  We are still putting out close to the same emissions levels overall.   For my $$$ the biggest single improvement is the computer controlled fuel injection.  Maximizing every drop of fuel for near complete burn.  Electric cars (In my opinion) cause many more problems than they are solving.  They are NOT as eco friendly as we are led to believe.   Yes someday the technology will be there to make it work as advertised.  Tesla, GM with the Volt/Bolt are making some great looking cars.  That's a start.  Wanna make a real difference in our planet?  Figure out a way to make plastic 100% recyclable and hold everybody to it.    

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Fitzy, my rant was mainly sarcasm and humor, save the EV comments. As JUSTA said, he and I live in Michigan, home to Pontiac and General Motors and so much more. So we are definitely passionate about cars - Pontiacs in particular.

I grew up in Flint, Michigan, just a little north of Pontiac. It was the birthplace of GM. GM was incorporated in Flint by Billy Durant. We were home to Buick Motor Division, AC Spark Plug Division, GM Parts Division/Service Parts Operation (now called Customer Care and Aftersales - WTF?). We also had the Flint V8 Engine plant (it made the first production Chevy small block), Flint Truck Assembly, "Chevy in the Hole" Chevy Assembly Plant - which made Chevrolet sedans from the 40s to 70s (including the '50 millionth GM car' - a special gold '55 Chevy), a Turnstedt Division plant (chrome potmetal and trim parts), Flint Metal Fabricating (stamp steel parts - hoods, fenders, core supports, etc.). 

Today, most of this is all gone thanks to GM's decades of downsizing. Buick-gone. AC-gone. Turnstedt-gone. Chevy in the Hole-gone. Flint V8-gone. GMPD-greatly reduced. Flint Truck Assembly - still running. Flint Metal Fab-still running but greatly reduced. One new plant was built 15 years ago - Flint Engine South - it builds the High Feature V6 and it use to produce the Volt/Ampere 4-cylinder engine/generator. 

At one time, Flint had over 50,000 auto workers. Now we have closer to 5,000. The local economy has declined along with the auto industry. So I can sympathize with the loss of Holden.

Look at how GM has shrunk in the last decade. Pontiac, Saab, Saturn, and Hummer are gone (although Hummer will be coming back as a model under GMC in 2021 -  as an electric pickup), Holden shutdown, Opel/Vauxhall - sold to Peugeot, GM of India, Venezuela, and South African operations shutdown (for different reasons). GM Daewoo on the brink of being shutdown if they didn't get union concessions two years ago. Last year GM laid off nearly 3000+ engineers/salaried employees in the US - most of them in traditional car design roles (GM is transforming themselves into a "technology company" according to CEO Mary Barra). GM was once the largest automaker in the world, now I think they are ranked 5th.

The Lemans (e.g. the Daewoo POS) you drove had a record number of recalls on it. I think it had 6 recalls in the US during its production run. It damaged the name of a legendary Pontiac mark, the same way the Geo/Chevy "Nova" did in the 90s for Chevrolet.

So I accept your "nuts" comment as a compliment.

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8 hours ago, Frosty said:

Fitzy, my rant was mainly sarcasm and humor, save the EV comments. As JUSTA said, he and I live in Michigan, home to Pontiac and General Motors and so much more. So we are definitely passionate about cars - Pontiacs in particular.

I grew up in Flint, Michigan, just a little north of Pontiac. It was the birthplace of GM. GM was incorporated in Flint by Billy Durant. We were home to Buick Motor Division, AC Spark Plug Division, GM Parts Division/Service Parts Operation (now called Customer Care and Aftersales - WTF?). We also had the Flint V8 Engine plant (it made the first production Chevy small block), Flint Truck Assembly, "Chevy in the Hole" Chevy Assembly Plant - which made Chevrolet sedans from the 40s to 70s (including the '50 millionth GM car' - a special gold '55 Chevy), a Turnstedt Division plant (chrome potmetal and trim parts), Flint Metal Fabricating (stamp steel parts - hoods, fenders, core supports, etc.). 

Today, most of this is all gone thanks to GM's decades of downsizing. Buick-gone. AC-gone. Turnstedt-gone. Chevy in the Hole-gone. Flint V8-gone. GMPD-greatly reduced. Flint Truck Assembly - still running. Flint Metal Fab-still running but greatly reduced. One new plant was built 15 years ago - Flint Engine South - it builds the High Feature V6 and it use to produce the Volt/Ampere 4-cylinder engine/generator. 

At one time, Flint had over 50,000 auto workers. Now we have closer to 5,000. The local economy has declined along with the auto industry. So I can sympathize with the loss of Holden.

Look at how GM has shrunk in the last decade. Pontiac, Saab, Saturn, and Hummer are gone (although Hummer will be coming back as a model under GMC in 2021 -  as an electric pickup), Holden shutdown, Opel/Vauxhall - sold to Peugeot, GM of India, Venezuela, and South African operations shutdown (for different reasons). GM Daewoo on the brink of being shutdown if they didn't get union concessions two years ago. Last year GM laid off nearly 3000+ engineers/salaried employees in the US - most of them in traditional car design roles (GM is transforming themselves into a "technology company" according to CEO Mary Barra). GM was once the largest automaker in the world, now I think they are ranked 5th.

The Lemans (e.g. the Daewoo POS) you drove had a record number of recalls on it. I think it had 6 recalls in the US during its production run. It damaged the name of a legendary Pontiac mark, the same way the Geo/Chevy "Nova" did in the 90s for Chevrolet.

So I accept your "nuts" comment as a compliment.

 

9 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

Was sorry to hear about  Holden.  That was a base for the last gasp G8, an awesome ride!   The Lemans you so fondly spoke of was an import here.  GMs shot at building cars in the Asian market.  The only reason to explain the trade gap in the automotive world, was GM cars were too big for their roads.  Pontiac also bedded down with YOTA power in Vibes. (another lower my head moment)  Owners either loved or hated...NO middle ground.  Like the Lemans, parts were stupid expensive.

The industry as a whole has made great strides in emissions and MPG.  While the number of cars on the road is off the charts compared to 30-40 years ago.  We are still putting out close to the same emissions levels overall.   For my $$$ the biggest single improvement is the computer controlled fuel injection.  Maximizing every drop of fuel for near complete burn.  Electric cars (In my opinion) cause many more problems than they are solving.  They are NOT as eco friendly as we are led to believe.   Yes someday the technology will be there to make it work as advertised.  Tesla, GM with the Volt/Bolt are making some great looking cars.  That's a start.  Wanna make a real difference in our planet?  Figure out a way to make plastic 100% recyclable and hold everybody to it.    

Fitzy, I couldn’t agree more with my friends about the love of cars, of Pontiac, of Detroit!! They are not that far from me and I grew up 55 miles from Cleveland Ohio, which was in the beginning of the auto industry a huge component. I also grew up 4 miles from Geneva Ohio, the birthplace of Oldsmobile!

I couldn’t have said what JustA said any better! While I’m a bit older and I saw the change coming a shade sooner! Here in the states I could never understand it! To me they were and still are junk! I’ve worked on them, I’ve tested them and I’ve driven them for testing! So for me it’s not an opinion it’s fact. What JustA said about throw away cars so true! Still for me it’s more disturbing than that! I have no ill will towards these countries or their people, but one did attack us and a few of the others cost tens of thousands of American lives. I was drafted during the TET offensive in Nam, but was given 2H classification because of a major football injury in high school. Later on I could not wrap my head around how men who hard fought in WWII, Korea and Vietnam turn around and buy these cars while their brothers were being laid off! Than worst of all, to have the very government that did all of this give the breaks through unfair trade laws to these very same countries; unforgivable! 
 

So you see for me it’s about honor and allegiance! I never felt that way about the Brits, or Australians or any of the other allies! I never felt like the built junk either!  

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Hi Guys, never could I have imagined the depth of allegiance nor the closeness to the industry that you experience. A love of all things automotive can be truly passionate, and it shows through with your responses - I'm impressed. Further, it has shed light on your various stances on the subject of imports and how the auto market is evolving, and how governments are rarely there for the benefit of the people, more often to feed politician's bloated egos and fill the coffers. It has been illuminating, so I thank you for taking the time to pen such eloquent lines.

I've been Stateside several times but spent most of my travels in the south, with one brief trip to Chicago. When I used to look at a map of the north, I would read with some wonder all those evocative names that I had heard and read in the automotive field: Saginaw & Fairmont spring to mind. Clearly, the greater Detroit area was a manufacturing powerhouse. You're not alone. Australia no longer has a local vehicle manufacturer (we once had 4.) In fact, the only thing we make any more (as far as I can tell) are plastic clothes pegs - the one item that SHOULD be made in China! Absolutely everything is imported and you have to wonder how we prop up our economy. When we dig the last ton of iron ore out of the ground and sell it overseas, it'll be Goodnight Gracie.

Okay, as an aside, I asked a headliner question for my 65 GP. General opinions please: is it okay for me to instal star pattern headliner in my 65, or am I committing the ultimate 'incorrect choice' travesty?

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You can restore a car to 100% factory spec's and you have a beautiful piece of history.   Now get real.   The amount of work to bring your dream project back to even a driver status will be extreme.   From the start your frame needs some major work.  Now would be the time to box it in and strengthen, making it the BEST it can be. You JUSTA blew your 100 point showcar status.  But I bet your already thinkin about safety items, disk brakes, urethane bushings, coilover shocks.  Todays tech that blows away 50+ year old tech,  increasing your safety and performance.   My point being that there are many parts you will simply not find and will have to upgrade. So it's really all about what makes you happy with the project your gonna love sooo much.   Have fun with your build, better yet,  get a kid involved, teach em why we enjoy doing what we do.  We all need someone to pass the torch too.   Cheers buddy.

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Thanks JUSTA6, I know I don't need permission from anyone - I might like leopard skin headliner for example, but I was just chasing opinions. You needn't worry - my old girl will NEVER be anywhere near show condition. I want it 'as is' because it's honest and I like the battle weary look. Also, when (if ever) I get her on the road, our driving time together will be brief and sporadic, so no need for me to go apeshit (can I say that?) on front discs and real seatbelts. But...I want to remain as faithful to the original designer's brief as possible, hence the question re headlining.

Still...little stars? How cool is that? Ames haven't responded yet. They probably think I'm insane and have relegated my enquiry to the work experience kid!

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3 hours ago, Fitzy said:

so no need for me to go apeshit (can I say that?) 

Most definitely yes! LOL!

As JUSTA said, your wallet, your car. Do what makes you happy. I know you know this. I think stars would be fun.

Last Indian's story reminded me of a man I worked with at GM. His name was Paul. I was in my early thirties when I first met and interacted with Paul. Paul was the garage/fleet manager for Delco Electronics Troy Sales Office (DE was a division of GM Hughes Electronics at that time). There was a sales demonstration going on in the garage on day that I visited the Troy office. DE sales and engineering folks were pitching DE products to a small group of Nissan executives for possible sale to Nissan. So this Nissan auto was loaded up with potential DE products.

Paul looked annoyed but he didn't say anything. I was talking to Paul about a piece of software he had requested for the garage when the demonstration took a small break. One of the Nissan execs popped his head into Paul's office, much to our surprise. He politely introduced himself and made some small talk. Once again I could see this was bothering Paul. At one point, the Nissan gentleman asked Paul if he had ever been to Japan. Paul's answer was polite, "No, I've never been to or seen your lovely country. I've only flown over it a few times." Soon the Nissan exec left.

I closed the door to Paul's office, made sure no one could hear us, and I looked at him funny. Paul said to me, "What?". I said, "When you said you'd flown over Japan a few times, it didn't happen to be in a B-29 did it?". Paul said, "God damn right I did. In 1945, I was bombing their asses and now,  in our own god damn country, we have to kiss theirs. What the hell is this world coming to?"

So for guys like Paul and Last Indian, it is most definitely about honor and allegiance. 

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Here! Here! What Last Indian said!!! Bravo! :cheers:

Seriously do what makes you happy.

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